Are Wales just bad losers?

[AdolphusGrigson]

As soon as it was announced that Rolland was the ref for the Wales v France game it was clear that if Wales lost then there would be an ideal scapegoat to pin the defeat on - the bir (Blind Irish Referee).

As they have been saying up North (see below) the Welsh really look like very bad losers and are happy to try and rubbish Rolland's reputation in the process.

http://threethousandversts.blogspot.com/2011/10/guest-post-leave-our-alain-alone.html

[the plastic paddy]

I posted the 'June 6 2009 memo' on Green and Gold and the Welsh boys have become very quiet on the subject. I keep a copy of the memo and still photographs of the incident about my person at all times in case I bump into a bolshy Welshman: Interesting thing is that not one person who has read the memo and seen the pictures feels that Alain Rolland's decision was anything other than correct and all the people I have shown them to were adamant that the decision was wrong before they read and saw the evidence.

[John Cooper Clarke]

Perhaps the Welsh misunderestimated Rolland? :)

[Valencia]

Went for many years to Cardiff for Wales v Ireland, used to have mighty crack with the Welsh on the Friday night and then when we won on the Saturday, the Welsh would literally disappear, they'd take it very bad. I had the great fortune to visit during a run when I never saw Ireland lose in Cardiff

[Daithi]

Yes, they're lousy losers, always have been. In fact, they're the moaniest, most painful, biggest bunch of whingers of rugby supporters anywhere on the planet!

[the plastic paddy]

Usual biased horse sh*t on rugby club, nothing but the accepted line although Evans did at least pay reference to the rules of the game. Welsh are back to their best apparently, matter of time before they win 4 grand slams in a row and if they don't it will be the fault of the ref/ rules of the game. Bored already and hoping they lose in the morning( heavily!!!)

[3Crowns3Stars]

Oh for Australia to have a man red carded in the first 5 minutes for tip tackling....and then go on to win by 25....
:D

[scotscor]

Ahh lads a bit of a mirror would go down well. We are Irish. The country of the 'Hand of Henry'
I cannot imagine any other crowd going as far over the top as we did.
Never mind how long we went on about Lille, Back, Steve Walsh, Dallaglio, we are top trump whingers

[fitzy73]

Spot on Scots.

I went to college in Cardiff in the early 90s, and generally speaking they are a good bunch. I met a good lad there who was a mad Llanelli fan, and I'd go to a fair few games at Straddy with him. I always found a great welcome there, to the point where I organised for a bus load of them to come to Dublin for a 5N game - I travelled over with them and it was mighty craic.

I've always liked going to Rodney Parade as well - proper old skool, no nonsense ground and fans.

I will add that, even in those days, Neath and Swansea seemed to have more than their share of loudmouth knobs. Subsequent meetings I've had over the years have, if anything, re-inforced this.

[Dowlinz]

Yes

[Evil Omer]

I think people are very quick to tar all Irish as being whiners, happy at cheating by our own etc on here whenever they get the chance. I seem to remember a lot of people on here thought that whole carry on after the event with Thierry Henry was embarrassing.

I don't think the Welsh are bad losers as such, they do have some appalling fans and they do have a real large scale attitude problem to Ireland that beggars belief. But I think we have to be careful to not confuse the NZer in the mix (Gatland) and his natural whining with the Welsh being like it. I suspect the Welsh response on places like Gwlad triggered here because it immediately threw in a whole new chance to have anti-Irish rants and because not so long ago they benefited from a spectacular **** up by officials but conveniently forgot that at this time.

[manofmunster]

The curcial point that most people (especially the Welsh) seem to have missed is that Rolland got the decision absolutely spot on.

Personally I do not think there was any malice in the hit by warburton and a yellow would have sufficed but the referee does not have access to the slow motion footage which helps illustrate the lack of intent to injur. In light of the clear instructions handed down to referees before the RWC the red card was the correct decision. The line trotted out ad-nauseum by the welsh fans & management ... "ruining the game as a spectacle" doesn't come into it.

[Grandpasimpson]

The curcial point that most people (especially the Welsh) seem to have missed is that Rolland got the decision absolutely spot on.

Personally I do not think there was any malice in the hit by warburton and a yellow would have sufficed but the referee does not have access to the slow motion footage which helps illustrate the lack of intent to injur. In light of the clear instructions handed down to referees before the RWC the red card was the correct decision. The line trotted out ad-nauseum by the welsh fans & management ... "ruining the game as a spectacle" doesn't come into it.

Exactly, what the Welsh are basically saying is that red cards are ok in earlier rounds/games of little importance but spear away in the high profile games and you'll be grand!!

[i_like_cake]

I'm getting texts of misery and quasi derision from my Welsh friends... bemoaning the fact that they should be in the final on sunday, worst refereeing decision in the world, ruined a sporting spectacle.... yadda yadda yadda...

by pointing out that they lost to South Africa, France and Australia doesn't seem to lessen their anger/indignation/hurt, did I mention anger....

Great lads, bad losers... but I do loves them I do....

[Benji]

I'm getting texts of misery and quasi derision from my Welsh friends... bemoaning the fact that they should be in the final on sunday, worst refereeing decision in the world, ruined a sporting spectacle.... yadda yadda yadda...

by pointing out that they lost to South Africa, France and Australia doesn't seem to lessen their anger/indignation/hurt, did I mention anger....

Great lads, bad losers... but I do loves them I do....

Im the same. I havent been able to convince them that Rolland was right and when queried about Philips try last year they say that it was just a six nations match. Im enjoying the Karma.

[3Crowns3Stars]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrJY8zgvW-M
Some Welsh are citing this as proof that Rolland 'cheated' them.

I can't see any lifting by Palmer in this tackle?

[Valencia]

I must add, was in a rugby club in Cardiff many moons ago with about 20mins before kick off, an older member of the club, came up to me asked me if I had a ticket, I said no (they were rather scarce on that day) The man handed me his own ticket, insisted I take it, as I had come over for the game.
I think some of the bad losers tag, may be it just really does hurt them, it is their national sport part of their identity, ergo a big big deal.

[Cowboy]

Not going to get into the bad loser debate because I dont think its necessary but I will post this in case it hasnt cropped up elsewhere


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9nn33vOtQk&feature=player_embedded

The last 40 seconds show the other dangerous tackles that happened at the RWC and the bans meted out. The powers that be are most definitely clamped down on these hits.

[3Crowns3Stars]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq4i8XlWilQ

Pienaar reminds a lot of this guy.. haha

Even down to the 'don't worry about the rules' attitude.

[Out Half]

They will not be moaning one bit about the pass that led to Shane Williams try this morning against Australia because it was clearly forward did you see it ?

[Piggybui]

Very forward. So forward SW couldn't reach it and had to use his foot to stop it.
They didn't replay it but were his feet on the line when he ran that loop around with a minute to go?
Hadn't seen the Walburton tackle in a few days until now. It was bad alright.

[blackadder]

It was a red card offence, the memo of 2009 is pretty clear, Roland has done nothing wrong. The only mistake he made was to award Wales a penalty at the end when if even non rugby fans could tell it should have gone the other way.

Having said that maybe the law needs revisited because on the face of it it does seem harsh on Warburton to get a red card when IMO anyway he had no malice in his mind. However it's one of those things, if you lift a player up and turn him you have a duty of care to him to make sure he lands safely. I know it's easy to say it with hindsight but despite the apparent amazement of the ITV commentators (who probably helped stoke the outrage in Wales) my initial thought was that Warburton was in trouble and so it proved.

The Welsh are terrible losers, it's always the fault of the referee. But they are mostly proper rugby fans and as a sport we need them.

In the cold light of day they lost 3 games at the WC, with their win over us being the only significant scalp (and many of them don't rate us). I don't think they're as good as some would have us believe. Warburton, North and Halfpenny are truly outstanding young players, Faletau, Priestland and Davies are pretty good as well, but they have a long way to go before they merit comparison to the Welsh sides of the 1970s.

[Evil Omer]

intent to injure is irrelevant though - the tackle itself is dangerous whether you intend to injure or not. The tackle being carried out, which no one has managed to prove wasn't intentional in itself, shows a disregard for the safety of another player. It doesn't actually matter whether it was meant to cripple or not, if you do this kind of tackle you risk the safety of another person without their say in it. So sorry but I don't buy the no intent to injure argument, if you don't have an intention to injure another player then don't tackle this way.

[the plastic paddy]

I must add, was in a rugby club in Cardiff many moons ago with about 20mins before kick off, an older member of the club, came up to me asked me if I had a ticket, I said no (they were rather scarce on that day) The man handed me his own ticket, insisted I take it, as I had come over for the game.
I think some of the bad losers tag, may be it just really does hurt them, it is their national sport part of their identity, ergo a big big deal.Good post, got lots of Welsh mates and they do get very emotional about it all; truth be told they are calming down now and the realisation is starting to dawn that Alain Rolland was entirely correct. Would be nice to see an apology to AR from the Welsh first minister but they will be producing Wing Bacon before that is likely.

[the plastic paddy]

intent to injure is irrelevant though - the tackle itself is dangerous whether you intend to injure or not. The tackle being carried out, which no one has managed to prove wasn't intentional in itself, shows a disregard for the safety of another player. It doesn't actually matter whether it was meant to cripple or not, if you do this kind of tackle you risk the safety of another person without their say in it. So sorry but I don't buy the no intent to injure argument, if you don't have an intention to injure another player then don't tackle this way.Wanted to just post my thanks but couldn't for some reason so +1.

[Out Half]

Very forward. So forward SW couldn't reach it and had to use his foot to stop it.
They didn't replay it but were his feet on the line when he ran that loop around with a minute to go?
Hadn't seen the Walburton tackle in a few days until now. It was bad alright.

Yes i am nearly certain that that Shane Williams had one or both feet in touch and the TJ was only a few metres away

[Valencia]

I think in Warburton, Halfpenny and North, Wales have got some excellent new talent. However would I trade SOB for Warburton? or say Tommy Bowe for Halfpenny?? No I wouldn't.

Think Wales managed to get the maximum out of their squad of players wheras aside from the Australian game, we have flattered to deceive for a while now...
A new progressive backs coach and we may be every bit as good if not better.

Definately have met some Welsh 'fans' in recent years who have put me well off, but have met a few Irish I could say the same thing about. Remembering the oul lad in the club in Cardiff reminded me they are generally a good bunch who adore their rugby. I'd say any issue some of them have with Ireland, was our rise in the last 20 years or so, we couldn't get near them for decades, then we got the equal and the better. Just as with Munster and Leinster rivalry, the Welsh are out nearest neighbours and it can get heated, but to tar them all with the one brush would be unwise and unfair

[Daithi]

To be fair, looking at the laws and directive and looking at the type of tackles that they appear to be trying to eliminate from the game, I think the laws have overshot the mark here a bit. I think they should differentiate between a spear tackle i.e. where a player or players (BOD incident anyone??) drives a player into the ground and where a player or player just drops them.

There's a clear difference in the the damage a tackler can do if they spear or if they just drop a player. Also if a player realises half way thru a tackle that they have upended a player mistakenly, the instinct is to leave them go, or drop them, a la Warburton and IMHO a yellow card would be sufficient in this case.

However, to be clear, the laws and relevant directives as of RWC2011 clearly show that a red card was the appropriate sanction for Warburton. I just think for the future they should consider moderating the punishment for dropping a player.

[Valencia]

While I understand the point you're making Daithi, not sure I'd go along with dropping people either, yes it is less, but still plenty of potential for damage if you land wrong. Think the whole affair will spark a lively debate on this topic and the laws. Hopefully with a good result for the game of rugby.

[Evil Omer]

To be fair, looking at the laws and directive and looking at the type of tackles that they appear to be trying to eliminate from the game, I think the laws have overshot the mark here a bit. I think they should differentiate between a spear tackle i.e. where a player or players (BOD incident anyone??) drives a player into the ground and where a player or player just drops them.

There's a clear difference in the the damage a tackler can do if they spear or if they just drop a player. Also if a player realises half way thru a tackle that they have upended a player mistakenly, the instinct is to leave them go, or drop them, a la Warburton and IMHO a yellow card would be sufficient in this case.

However, to be clear, the laws and relevant directives as of RWC2011 clearly show that a red card was the appropriate sanction for Warburton. I just think for the future they should consider moderating the punishment for dropping a player.

but spinal damage and permanent paralysis don't differentiate between being driven and dropped and that's the issue they're dealing with. I'd also have to disagree with 2 other things. 1. that Warburton dropped the player when he realised he'd upended him. When you see the subsequent action (i.e. a second later) it looks equally or more likely he dropped him so he could "disengage" and be allowed to go straight onto the ball. 2. that players will react by dropping. The rulings on this have been clear for ages, if you lift a player up you bring them back down under control. That has been the case for ages and players should know it is so. The instinct by now should be to try to prevent the player from dropping as soon as you realise you've gone too far, i.e. to protect them. If you lift a player up and over and don't protect them you deserve everything you get. The thing is when you look at the technique required, i.e. lifting behind the thighs and lifting one arm up higher than the other/over, isn't an accidental action. It's actually very difficult/impossible to accidentally lift a player the way Warburton did. So if you don't know the potential consequences of lifting a player like that then as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't really be on a rugby pitch as you're a danger to others.

Personally I think the instructions are (amazingly for IRB) pretty good. This is downright dangerous (see my previous comment, intent is irrelevant when you get this kind of tackle), starting from the point of straight red UNLESS there is a mitigating circumstance is the best way to stop it. I don't particularly want to see players in wheel chairs and if being "harsh" on players like Warburton stops it then so be it.

[McCloud]

Warburton lifted the player up over his shoulders turned him on his back and dropped him. Straight red card the correct call. There can be no room for the player wasn't injured so that's a bit harsh. Soon as players get the message that that kind of dangerous tackle is a straight red the sooner players will stop that kind of tackle. Hopefully those ref's who bottled it and only showed a yellow will get a right going over from the powers that be.

[outside inside]

Correct call no question . One new law that i would like to see introduced if a player commits an illegal tackle etc which results in an injury to oppo player he should be banned for the same length of time as the injured player is out of the game . Have played the game suffered two serious injuries one pure fluke one late late dangerous hit by no 7, hate the the cheap cowardly bastards .

[Daithi]

EO points well made, but I've yet to hear of a player injure due to being dropped, whereas I've seen players being injured by being driven into the ground e.g. bod. Even though your arguments are well made and valid, I still think that differentiating against pure dangerous play and over eager tackling gone wrong would be a good idea. For instance, was Warburton.s offense worse than Lawes assault on Led esmo, was it worse than an eye gouge, worse than a short arm tackle, hmmmm, yet all those offenses are let to the referees discretion whereas the drop tackle is a mandated straight red....

[the plastic paddy]

but spinal damage and permanent paralysis don't differentiate between being driven and dropped and that's the issue they're dealing with. I'd also have to disagree with 2 other things. 1. that Warburton dropped the player when he realised he'd upended him. When you see the subsequent action (i.e. a second later) it looks equally or more likely he dropped him so he could "disengage" and be allowed to go straight onto the ball. 2. that players will react by dropping. The rulings on this have been clear for ages, if you lift a player up you bring them back down under control. That has been the case for ages and players should know it is so. The instinct by now should be to try to prevent the player from dropping as soon as you realise you've gone too far, i.e. to protect them. If you lift a player up and over and don't protect them you deserve everything you get. The thing is when you look at the technique required, i.e. lifting behind the thighs and lifting one arm up higher than the other/over, isn't an accidental action. It's actually very difficult/impossible to accidentally lift a player the way Warburton did. So if you don't know the potential consequences of lifting a player like that then as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't really be on a rugby pitch as you're a danger to others.

Personally I think the instructions are (amazingly for IRB) pretty good. This is downright dangerous (see my previous comment, intent is irrelevant when you get this kind of tackle), starting from the point of straight red UNLESS there is a mitigating circumstance is the best way to stop it. I don't particularly want to see players in wheel chairs and if being "harsh" on players like Warburton stops it then so be it.Excellent post EO, the addition of the no intent clause is the surest way of ensuring that the law is respected and hopefully will lead to an end to the practice. No spear/ Tip tackles today, wonder how long we go before we see another? My bet would be months rather than weeks. Unbelieveable to hear armchair rugby fans saying it is making the game 'soft', FFS. Tony Buckley probably has the biggest neck in world rugby, should imagine the docs would say his spinal column is as weak as a seven stone flat jockey. Well done Alain Rolland, took guts to make that CORRECT decision and we will never find out how many catastrophic injuries you prevented, if it is only one then your bravery has made a profound difference, I have a feeling it will be considerably more than one.

[Evil Omer]

EO points well made, but I've yet to hear of a player injure due to being dropped, whereas I've seen players being injured by being driven into the ground e.g. bod. Even though your arguments are well made and valid, I still think that differentiating against pure dangerous play and over eager tackling gone wrong would be a good idea. For instance, was Warburton.s offense worse than Lawes assault on Led esmo, was it worse than an eye gouge, worse than a short arm tackle, hmmmm, yet all those offenses are let to the referees discretion whereas the drop tackle is a mandated straight red....

well now we're into something of a necessary tangent. For me Lawes (and Armitage) were guilty of similarly dangerous disregard for the safety of others. Both clearly decided they were going to hit the man regardless of whether or not he had the ball. I also think, just my opinion, it looked like both were intent on making their mark on the opposition. I personally believe - as said elsewhere - that these kind of "tip tackles" are being made to make a mark on the opposition. Whilst I don't think they're going out to cripple I think there is an element in the game of attempting to intimidate by hitting hard and dangerously and with a disregard for the laws of the game and I think there is a need to clamp down on that as well.

[the plastic paddy]

well now we're into something of a necessary tangent. For me Lawes (and Armitage) were guilty of similarly dangerous disregard for the safety of others. Both clearly decided they were going to hit the man regardless of whether or not he had the ball. I also think, just my opinion, it looked like both were intent on making their mark on the opposition. I personally believe - as said elsewhere - that these kind of "tip tackles" are being made to make a mark on the opposition. Whilst I don't think they're going out to cripple I think there is an element in the game of attempting to intimidate by hitting hard and dangerously and with a disregard for the laws of the game and I think there is a need to clamp down on that as well.Think it is a good tangent to be exploring EO, Grid Iron has an 'unnecessary force' rule I think. Not an expert but I can guarantee that someone on MF will be able to verify or more likely tell me I am an idiot. One thing I would say in respectful response to Daithi(would quote him if I knew how to) is that the Spear/Tip tackle is more dangerous IMHO than almost any offence in the game apart from driving after a scrum collapse which I can't believe any FR player would deliberately do.

[munsterforever]

bad losers or not they scored the best try ive seen at the WC at the end of the game today-pure skill courage guts and commitment even better considering that they knew they had already lost the game and im pretty sure they will give us a hiding in Cardiff come February.

Winners ARE bad losers and so they should be

[the plastic paddy]

bad losers or not they scored the best try ive seen at the WC at the end of the game today-pure skill courage guts and commitment even better considering that they knew they had already lost the game and im pretty sure they will give us a hiding in Cardiff come February.

Winners ARE bad losers and so they should beLucky we are playing them in Dublin then but know what you are saying.

[munsterforever]

We have them in Dub? scuse moi:o hmmm nobody gives us a hiding there....Can i change me mind?

[the plastic paddy]

We have them in Dub? scuse moi:o hmmm nobody gives us a hiding there....Can i change me mind? No need to change your mind surely. They might just as well give us a hiding in Dub as in Cardiff. Main thing is those young Scarlets players had another fecking hard game today 3 weeks before the HEC starts.

[Loop]

Bad winners as well IMO. Result aside, losing in Cardiff has never been pleasant :(

[blackwarrior]

bad losers or not they scored the best try ive seen at the WC at the end of the game today-pure skill courage guts and commitment even better considering that they knew they had already lost the game and im pretty sure they will give us a hiding in Cardiff come February.

Winners ARE bad losers and so they should be

Oh come on .... February is ages away and anyway the match is in Dublin. Wales did well at the World Cup, they beat us fair and square. But "give us a hiding"...? Where's your f***ing patriotism man?

Or where's you logic even?

Ireland and Wales are well matched. I look forward to Feb......

[Daithi]

Oh come on .... February is ages away and anyway the match is in Dublin. Wales did well at the World Cup, they beat us fair and square. But "give us a hiding"...? Where's your f***ing patriotism man?

Or where's you logic even?

Ireland and Wales are well matched. I look forward to Feb......

Exactly, I still just fancy Ireland when both are similarly rested and ready for a game. Ireland were tired and flat looking for Welsh game and let in 1 easy and 2 piss easy tries, that they wouldn't haver dreamt of conceding earlier in the wcup.

[Greenmoon]

Having been marooned here in South Wales for 23 years I can confirm that many Welsh supporters are bad losers and equally bad winners. You only have to trawl through the Gwlad site after the French game - one supporter wanted Clerc sited for play acting. I wonder what their views were on yesterday's refereeing - Hook's forward pass and Shane William's leg being in touch before the final try.

Still, as one of my Welsh friends said (I'm not sure if he was joking), 'nobody ever beats Wales, although some teams occasionally do score more points than them'.

[McCloud]

Was wondering about that. Was it a forward pass as Williams did not catch it but kicked it? If he had caught it you could say a clear forward pass. What does the law state on that?

[3Crowns3Stars]

Been drinking McCloud?
Or sarcastic?
A forward pass is a forward pass regardless of whether it's caught, kicked or thrown into touch.

[kahalui]

Pass was well forward. Poite was TJ.

[McCloud]

Been drinking McCloud?
Or sarcastic?
A forward pass is a forward pass regardless of whether it's caught, kicked or thrown into touch.

That's what I thought. In the game the commentators called it as a forward pass and then on the replay they said Williams had kicked it so it was ok......

[3Crowns3Stars]

Didn't see it myself, but they may be mixing it up with the knock on laws. If an individual loses the ball forward, but manages to kick before it hits the ground, it's not a knock on.(all must be done by the same person without any 3rd party touching the ball in the interim)

[nuke]

Yes i am nearly certain that that Shane Williams had one or both feet in touch and the TJ was only a few metres away

that wouldn't matter, you can play the ball with the foot or hand while in touch and the ball is not considered in touch as long as it stays on the field of play. If, however, you take possession of the ball then it is in touch.

Aint laws great

[3Crowns3Stars]

that wouldn't matter, you can play the ball with the foot or hand while in touch and the ball is not considered in touch as long as it stays on the field of play. If, however, you take possession of the ball then it is in touch.

Aint laws great

Are you suggesting Cueto's 'try' in the RWC final 2007 should therefore have been awarded?!?
I'm confused..

[3Crowns3Stars]

Or are you suggesting you can tap and push the ball, but not hold it, when you are in touch. (and the ball is infield)

[3Crowns3Stars]

In any case, Williams slid into touch with the ball in his hands?

[nuke]

Or are you suggesting you can tap and push the ball, but not hold it, when you are in touch. (and the ball is infield) yes that is exactly what i am saying.

And you can score a try if you are touch in goal and ground a ball which is in goal without taking possession of it first.


In any case, Williams slid into touch with the ball in his hands?

Sorry, didn't see the match

[3Crowns3Stars]

In theory, could you deliberately 'throw' the ball forward ( just before your foot goes into touch) and slam the ball down with one hand to score a try to bypass the fact your legs have been tackled into touch? :)
Far fetched-but possible....

[3Crowns3Stars]

Or does that get trumped by the 'possession' of the ball (as per the knock on laws)

[nuke]

In theory, could you deliberately 'throw' the ball forward ( just before your foot goes into touch) and slam the ball down with one hand to score a try to bypass the fact your legs have been tackled into touch? :)
Far fetched-but possible....

no that would be deliberately throwing the ball forward which is a penalty offence

[3Crowns3Stars]

no that would be deliberately throwing the ball forward which is a penalty offence

Remember the famous Blanco try, where he tapped the ball over the on rushing winger, ran around him and gathered the ball before scoring a try. Was that a refereeing cockup?

[nuke]

Nope but it did inspire a law change :)

[Evil Omer]

Remember the famous Blanco try, where he tapped the ball over the on rushing winger, ran around him and gathered the ball before scoring a try. Was that a refereeing cockup?

you can deliberately throw the ball forward, Niall Woods scored a try against Wales doing it. BUT the key being missed is that you must regain "control" of the ball. Just slapping down on it would most likely not be viewed as regaining control of the ball.

[3Crowns3Stars]

Downward pressure in the in goal area.? Interesting dilemma for the ref, I guess...

[nuke]

you can deliberately throw the ball forward, Niall Woods scored a try against Wales doing it. BUT the key being missed is that you must regain "control" of the ball. Just slapping down on it would most likely not be viewed as regaining control of the ball.

Nope you can't, penalty offense under law 12.1 and it doesn't matter whether you regain control or not.

Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward
with hand or arm, nor throw forward.
Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that
would probably otherwise have been scored.

[3Crowns3Stars]

Nope but it did inspire a law change :)

I'm trying to find that try on youtube. I can see him doing it in my mind but can't remember the year/opposition..Anyone?

[Evil Omer]

Nope you can't, penalty offense under law 12.1 and it doesn't matter whether you regain control or not.

Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward
with hand or arm, nor throw forward.
Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that
would probably otherwise have been scored.

really when was that changed because players have been knocking the ball forward and regathering for years - including BOD's little party trick of throwing the ball up as though going for a pass and catching.

[Daithi]

Pass was well forward. Poite was TJ.

Ha, ha, that just figures doesn't it. He really is a blundering eejit :D:D

[nuke]

Not so sure it was forward when Bod did that overhead pass.

PS, sorry about the thread hijack.

Not sure exactly when it was changed - at least 20 years i reckon

[Evil Omer]

Not so sure it was forward when Bod did that overhead pass.

PS, sorry about the thread hijack.

Not sure exactly when it was changed - at least 20 years i reckon

well the thing of this being allowed came in within last 20 years as Niall Woods scored the try I mentioned when the ball was in the air and he and Ieuan Evans were both going for it, he deliberately flicked it over Evans' head, ran around him, gathered it and scored. That would have been mid 90s.

[Cowboy]

Ha, ha, that just figures doesn't it. He really is a blundering eejit :D:D

If I knew the odds I'd take a flier on him reffing the next RWC final. The powers that be seem to adore him and he has the ego requirement.

[nuke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X50vaqyxZZA&feature=related

[bongyhead]

Jaysus, nuke, I have never seen so many hapless Paddies in the one video.

[Evil Omer]

Jaysus, nuke, I have never seen so many hapless Paddies in the one video.

I'd prefer to try to believe we pushed them so hard they had to play at their highest level and score spectacular tries to beat us (:o)