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View Full Version : Phillips try/Wallace gaff



mtcmolloy
14th-March-2011, 15:34
Phillips try:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRp1sYiQQVU&feature=relat ed


Pa wallace:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CG3zAjnkrw


Here is the last three minutes of the game, including our Paddy's solo (see last 20 seconds). Actually super hands from Sexton/bod/dorce to put paddy away.


(these vid's load better for me in firefox btw)

mtcmolloy
14th-March-2011, 15:36
Look at tommy bow's attempt to stop Phillips in the Phillips try clip, and compare it to Chris Paterson's nous and awareness here (albeit from a more lateral angle): http://www.youtube.com/user/RuggieBear1#p/a/u/1/ZVxEivORLwc

LeakyBoots
14th-March-2011, 15:50
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden

mtcmolloy
14th-March-2011, 15:58
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game.
But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and
maybe the most salient thing, is how <S&#079;NG>virtually
every irish player turns his back</S&#079;NG>.
You won't see english players behaving like that.
Imagine the kiwis. I've said this before:
Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio
calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying
between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate,
not when under your own posts. This is what lost the game.
Ireland have not turned up for a game this year. Leadership
non existent. top-down problems.

Waterfordlad
14th-March-2011, 16:02
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game. But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and maybe the most salient thing, is how <S&#079;NG>virtually every irish player turns his back</S&#079;NG>. I've said this before: Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate, not standing under your own posts. This is what lost the game. Ireland have not turned up for a game this year.





Agreed. Reminds me of the try Geraghty scored for Saints against us at Franklin Gardens when we assumed he would take a pop at goal and all turned our backs/went asleep while he ran through for the try. Ya snooze ya lose

LeinsterTrue
14th-March-2011, 16:06
I'd agree there is something not right in the core of this team at the moment. Maybe it is leadership, I dont know. There were serveral times yesterday when opportunstic ball broke in Ireland's favour, whether it was a poorly controlled Wales lineout, a hack through from a ball squirted out the back of a Welsh ruck etc, and we always seemed to be AGES away from putting pressure on the retreating isolated Welsh player, rather than putting untold pressure on. Couple this with our lack of appetite for counter attack and we are so stagnant, so predictable, especially when we have a scrum half and outhalf with no break, and the Welsh are dropping their back three miles to defend our kicking game, and even then we cant find space because we line up as a defensive line even when we are attacking. So depressing!

Combatlogo
14th-March-2011, 16:14
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game.
But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and
maybe the most salient thing, is how <S&#079;NG>virtually
every irish player turns his back</S&#079;NG>.
You won't see english players behaving like that.
Imagine the kiwis. I've said this before:
Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio
calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying
between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate,
not when under your own posts. This is what lost the game.
Ireland have not turned up for a game this year. Leadership
non existent. top-down problems.





Why wouldn't they turn their backs? A quick throw wasn't possible under the laws of the game.smileys/rolleyes.gif

RichardP
14th-March-2011, 16:23
I totally agree with CombatLogo on this. The ball had been kicked into the crowd so there is absolutely no legal right for a quick lineout to be taken. Another ball was handed to Rees in front of Allen and again no legal right to take a quick throw-in. The Welsh had not even come up to form to form a lineout - and the onus is on the throwing-in team to determine numbers in the line-out - so one again the throw in was not legal. To say the Irish were asleep is a specious argument since they had no reason to be awake. This is officially induced error and neither official should be let near an international ever again.

RichardP
14th-March-2011, 16:24
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game. But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and maybe the most salient thing, is how <s&#079;ng>virtually every irish player turns his back</font></s&#079;ng>. I've said this before: Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate, not standing under your own posts. This is what lost the game. Ireland have not turned up for a game this year.





Agreed. Reminds me of the try Geraghty scored for Saints against us at Franklin Gardens when we assumed he would take a pop at goal and all turned our backs/went asleep while he ran through for the try. Ya snooze ya lose
Different game, different teams, different issues. You never turn your back on a penalty until the decision to kick at goal has been confirmed.

Dowlinz
14th-March-2011, 16:53
The bbc pundit makes a good point about Paddy Wallace cutting in, perhaps it was to make the conversion easier.

If he had offloaded it to Earls and he went in to the corner would anyone have really trusted Sexton to get the kick?

RichardP
14th-March-2011, 16:57
You don't get to take a convert unless you score the try - even Paddy knows that.

Dowlinz
14th-March-2011, 17:10
You don't get to take a convert unless you score the try - even Paddy knows that.


Yeah but essentially an uncoverted try was the same the result as getting nothing whatsoever, perhaps he thought our best chance of winning was to cut inside and get a better kicking position.

Or perhaps he's just a gimp with no rugby brain.

14th-March-2011, 17:16
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the
Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such
was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to
catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a
good game. But it's the small things, you know?What's also
noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and maybe the most
salient thing, is how &lt;SONG&gt;virtually
every irish player turns his back</font>&lt;/SONG&gt;. You
won't see english players behaving like that. Imagine the
kiwis. I've said this before: Ireland have either got : *-
Serious attitude problemsor*- Little or no on-field
leadership.POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and
what dallaglio calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k
are they saying between plays ? Those are your
opportunities to communicate, not when under your own
posts. This is what lost the game. Ireland have not turned
up for a game this year. Leadership non existent. top-down
problems.





Why wouldn't they turn their backs? A quick throw
wasn't possible under the laws of the game.smileys/rolleyes.gif


beat me to it, spot on. Bowe was actually marking the
quick throw, as soon as not possible he went to get back
into position. Rest clearly knew a quick throw couldn't be
taken so were organising for the lineout. Which in spite of
the OP's comments is something you will see EVERY side
do during the game. As soon as the quick throw isn't an
option you have time.

kahalui
14th-March-2011, 17:39
Molloys clip shows the ref and touch judge were perfectly placed so mustve seen where Sextons kick went (into the crowd). Shocking decision, considering they even had a little chat/consultation to make sure everything was legal before awarding it.

14th-March-2011, 17:46
Molloys clip shows the ref and touch judge
were perfectly placed so mustve seen where Sextons kick
went (into the crowd). Shocking decision, considering they
even had a little chat/consultation to make sure everything
was legal before awarding it.


Kaplan passed the buck and the TJ just plain bottled it under
pressure. He clearly didn't have a clue what he was doing.

masterchief
14th-March-2011, 17:48
any clips of reddan getting the ball in his face? missed the first
few mins of the game...

14th-March-2011, 17:49
Well we can add another thing to it, Rees is actually standing
in the field of play when he passes it, front foot is over the
line, so shouldn't have been allowed on that front either.

kahalui
14th-March-2011, 18:07
Molloys clip shows the ref and touch judge

were perfectly placed so mustve seen where Sextons kick

went (into the crowd). Shocking decision, considering they

even had a little chat/consultation to make sure everything

was legal before awarding it.





Kaplan passed the buck and the TJ just plain bottled it under

pressure. He clearly didn't have a clue what he was doing.</span>

Or did he?

tippex
14th-March-2011, 20:06
What you can't see in that clip of Phillip's try is Shane Williams collecting the 'correct' ball from the stand, and when he realises his team mate is running for the line he dropped the ball behind his back. smileys/sad.gifWatched it again on BBC iplayer.

McCloud
14th-March-2011, 20:46
Molloys clip shows the ref and touch judge <BR sab="548">were perfectly placed so mustve seen where Sextons kick <BR sab="549">went (into the crowd). Shocking decision, considering they <BR sab="550">even had a little chat/consultation to make sure everything <BR sab="551">was legal before awarding it. <BR sab="552"> <BR sab="553"><BR sab="554">Kaplan passed the buck and the TJ just plain bottled it under <BR sab="555">pressure. He clearly didn't have a clue what he was doing.<BR sab="557"><BR sab="558">Or did he?<BR sab="559">


From were Kaplan was standing when the kick from Sexton went directly into touch he must of seen that the ball went into the crowd. Kaplan seems to have passed the buck to Allen who it seems does not have a clue about the situation he found himself in.

3Crowns3Stars
14th-March-2011, 21:03
Ironically, if EVERY Irish player had stood still, hands on hips and NOT
chased Phillips, I absolutely guarantee the try would not have stood..
The ref would have copped what had happened and called him back.
(useless conjecture, I know)

fairway hunter
14th-March-2011, 21:24
looking at the clip the TJ appears to turn his back to the ball and runs to the spot where the lineout is to take place. if anyone had their eyes off the ball here it was that clown. the ball boy shows with the new ball behind his back but hands it to rees within a couple of yards of the TJ who should get should get a specsavers voucher from the IRFU ASAP

this has been one of the poorest 6 nations that i can remember and the abysmal standard of refereeing has played a huge part in it.

mtcmolloy
14th-March-2011, 21:46
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game.
But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and
maybe the most salient thing, is how <S&#079;NG>virtually
every irish player turns his back</S&#079;NG>.
You won't see english players behaving like that.
Imagine the kiwis. I've said this before:
Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio
calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying
between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate,
not when under your own posts. This is what lost the game.
Ireland have not turned up for a game this year. Leadership
non existent. top-down problems.





Why wouldn't they turn their backs? A quick throw wasn't possible under the laws of the game.smileys/rolleyes.gif fair enough.. I was possibly overly pissed off when i wrote that. my point is unfeasable, and yes, you can see that bowe marked the possible quick throw from the original ball. my bad. still pissed off though. anyone but phillips.. I do so hope we get to serve him something cold in the not too distant future. no luck in it.

moritz
14th-March-2011, 21:56
Ironically, if EVERY Irish player had stood still, hands on hips and NOT
chased Phillips, I absolutely guarantee the try would not have stood..
The ref would have copped what had happened and called him back.
(useless conjecture, I know)


Totally agree

Cowboy
15th-March-2011, 07:34
The bbc pundit makes a good point about Paddy Wallace
cutting in, perhaps it was to make the conversion easier.If
he had offloaded it to Earls and he went in to the corner
would anyone have really trusted Sexton to get the kick?



With the distances involved and Keith Earls' acceleration I'd
have thought he'd have beaten the last defender and
gotten to at least where paddy was standing in the in-goal
area. It would have been the same conversion for all
intents and purposes.

Mebawsa Ritchie
15th-March-2011, 07:40
Ironically, if EVERY Irish player had stood still, hands on hips and NOT
chased Phillips, I absolutely guarantee the try would not have stood..
The ref would have copped what had happened and called him back.
(useless conjecture, I know)


Totally agree

Total conjecture as you rightly said.

Why Allan said that the ball used for the quick lineout was the correct one remains a mystery however.

Why didn't he say "I don't know"smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

15th-March-2011, 17:22
Ironically, if
EVERY Irish player had stood still, hands on hips and NOT
chased Phillips, I absolutely guarantee the try would not
have stood.. The ref would have copped what had
happened and called him back. (useless conjecture, I
know)


Totally agree Total conjecture as you
rightly said.Why Allan said that the ball used for the quick
lineout was the correct one remains a mystery
however.Why didn't he say "I don't
know"*smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

Even if he thought the ball boy was Ickle (easy mistake) he
must have noticed that he didn't throw it so it can't have
been legal.

Let's be honest here, if most of us made a monumental
f**k up like this in our job we'd be ripped to shreds for it
and again in our quarterly etc reviews.

Red October
15th-March-2011, 17:48
Ironically, if
EVERY Irish player had stood still, hands on hips and NOT
chased Phillips, I absolutely guarantee the try would not
have stood.. The ref would have copped what had
happened and called him back. (useless conjecture, I
know)


Totally agree Total conjecture as you
rightly said.Why Allan said that the ball used for the quick
lineout was the correct one remains a mystery
however.Why didn't he say "I don't
know"*smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

Even if he thought the ball boy was Ickle (easy mistake) he
must have noticed that he didn't throw it so it can't have
been legal.

Let's be honest here, if most of us made a monumental
f**k up like this in our job we'd be ripped to shreds for it
and again in our quarterly etc reviews.

Begs the question:

Since when were referees civil servants?

(Fetches popcorn & awaits public sector fury...)

glorob
15th-March-2011, 18:08
Those videos won't load for me but my memory of the Philips try is Bowe did well to even get close to Philips such was the headstart?


Patterson's tackle was a cracker... showed great pace to catch Foden





Ya.. It' not so much a critique of bowe, I think he'd a good game.
But it's the small things, you know?
What's also noteworthy from the Phillips clip, and
maybe the most salient thing, is how <S&#079;NG>virtually
every irish player turns his back</S&#079;NG>.
You won't see english players behaving like that.
Imagine the kiwis. I've said this before:
Ireland have either got :
- Serious attitude problems
or
- Little or no on-field leadership.

POC and BOD are super at remonstrating and what dallaglio
calls "chatting up the ref", but what the f**k are they saying
between plays ? Those are your opportunities to communicate,
not when under your own posts. This is what lost the game.
Ireland have not turned up for a game this year. Leadership
non existent. top-down problems.





Why wouldn't they turn their backs? A quick throw wasn't possible under the laws of the game.smileys/rolleyes.gif





But it was possible because the ref allowed it. As you no doubt know "the referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a game. The Referee must apply fairly all the Laws of the game in everymatch".


He may have been in error but then he is both a referee and a humanso it should not be assumed he would not make the odd glaring mistake and once he says it is ok it is ok.


We were careless and not paying enough attention and paid a heavy price.