Your Team for the Boks

[tickettout]

DJ Church CroninBuckley


DOCToner


Ferris* Wallace Houdini


Reddan Sexton EarlsDarcy BOD Bowe Kearney


Bench: BestCourt Ross Leo SOB Stringer ROG Fitz


*Denotes token cap for the nordiessmileys/wink.gif


Toner is in just to find out for once and for all if the guy can cut it at this level. (I suspect he can't)


Wally scrapes in over SOB, likewise Darcy over Wallace (neither are great options at this level)


Leamy will get his chance against the A/B's .


Fitzgerald scrapes in for a bench spotover Trimbledue to his versatilitydespite the fact that he doesn't score tries.

[lactose intolerant]

same as TT except i'd throw SOB in for Wally.....need to find out if he's the real deal at int'l level

[The Outlaw]

Kearney - only because Geordan is unavailable.


Bowe- self explanatory


BOD - self explanatory


Darcy- Wallace just hasn't done enough. Downeys omission from the squad a disgrace.


Earls if fit- Fitzgerald just not in form. However if Earls doesnt make it Fitzgerald in. Dont think Johnny Murphy is international class. Dont think Horgan is a big enough threat with the ball in hand anymore.


Sexton- Tight enough call but Sexton has a better running game


Reddan- Lucky dip really. All of our scrumhalves are average. Stringer just not big enough for the Boks. Boss mixes the sublime with the awful too regularly.


Houdini- If hes as good as people say he is Spies should be easy pickings.


Wallace- too good to leave out


O Brien- in form and well capable of playing 6. I would envisage an SA type backrow where Brussow plays 6 but plays like a 7. Ferris for the bench dont think he's playing great this year.


Toner\MOD- I'll be honest and say I think SA would eat both of them. Casey's marginalisation has never been more chronically shown up. Ryan just hasnt stepped up to the plate this year.//


DOC- one of our stalwarts


Ross- Against these guys we need scrummagers. Play him for 55 and then launch Buckley. i wouldn't contemplate selecting Ross for the All Blacks.


Cronin- the next Keith Wood. But he has to be accurate with the darts. Has to be. Best for the bench on the basis of experience- narrowly edges Varley


DJ Tiesto - On the basis that i just dont trust Court all that much. Wilkinson not up to it. Horan is gone for this level of rugby. Slim pickings. With Eddie Rockets likely to be selected for SA. Healy should be able to handle Rocketts van de Linde.


Bench


Court, Buckley, Best,MOD, Ferris, Stringer, ROG, Fitzgerald

[Tobyglen]

Church Cronin Buckley
DOC, MOD
Ferris, Wally, Heaslip
Reddan, Uberslappable
Fitz, Darcy, Drico, Bowe
Earls

Leamy, Ryan, Court, Stringer, ROG, Fitz, Varley, Ross.

Putting Toner in the second row is a joke, he has dreadful hands in the loose and if you watched any Tri-nations you will see that a quick offloading game is needed to compete with these top dogs. The step up in pace will be too much for many of our players. MOD is easily as good a lineout operator as Toner and was excellent around the park against Toulon. Toner will never make it at this level- no chance.

[davedowney10]

1. Healy
2. Varley
3. Buckley
4. O' Callaghan
5. Ryan
6. Leamy
7. Ferris
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darcey
13. O' Driscoll
14. Bowe
15.Earls

[The Outlaw]

Church Cronin Buckley
DOC, MOD
Ferris, Wally, Heaslip
Reddan, Uberslappable
Fitz, Darcy, Drico, Bowe
Earls

Leamy, Ryan, Court, Stringer, ROG, Fitz, Varley, Ross.

Putting Toner in the second row is a joke, he has dreadful hands in the loose and if you watched any Tri-nations you will see that a quick offloading game is needed to compete with these top dogs. The step up in pace will be too much for many of our players. MOD is easily as good a lineout operator as Toner and was excellent around the park against Toulon. Toner will never make it at this level- no chance.






SA represent a physical challenge. No dis-respect to MOD but he's up against it next week. Against Australia and even NZ he'd be ok physically. This is a different level. Thats why the marginalisation of Casey has been a joke especially by Eddie. He is tailor made for these guys.


The Irish pack is never the same without POC. If he had him we would definitely win next week. Not having him evens things up a little bit. I think we have to win next Saturday. These guys are infighting, knackered and longing for the end of the season. Would be an awful kick in the balls if we cant beat them.

[mahoney]

15 Earls
14 Bowe
13 bod
12 Wallace
11 Fitz
10 Sexton
9 Reddan/Stringer 50/50
8 Heaslip
7 Sob
6 Ferris
5 mod
4 Donners
3 Mushy
2 Cronin
1 Court

16 Best 17Healey 18 Ross 19 Cullen 20 Leamy 21 Strings
22 rog 23 kearney

[Experimental]

C. Healy
R. Best
T. Buckley
D. O'Callaghan
L. Cullen
D. Leamy
D. Wallace
J. Heaslip
E. Reddan
J. Sexton
L. Fizgerald
G. Darcy
B. O'Driscoll
T. Bowe
R. Kearney

S. Ferris
P. Stringer
R. O'Gara
A. Trimble
M. O'Driscoll
M. Ross
J. Flannery

[Tobyglen]

Church Cronin Buckley
DOC, MOD
Ferris, Wally, Heaslip
Reddan, Uberslappable
Fitz, Darcy, Drico, Bowe
Earls

Leamy, Ryan, Court, Stringer, ROG, Fitz, Varley, Ross.

Putting Toner in the second row is a joke, he has dreadful hands in the loose and if you watched any Tri-nations you will see that a quick offloading game is needed to compete with these top dogs. The step up in pace will be too much for many of our players. MOD is easily as good a lineout operator as Toner and was excellent around the park against Toulon. Toner will never make it at this level- no chance.






SA represent a physical challenge. No dis-respect to MOD but he's up against it next week. Against Australia and even NZ he'd be ok physically. This is a different level. Thats why the marginalisation of Casey has been a joke especially by Eddie. He is tailor made for these guys.


The Irish pack is never the same without POC. If he had him we would definitely win next week. Not having him evens things up a little bit. I think we have to win next Saturday. These guys are infighting, knackered and longing for the end of the season. Would be an awful kick in the balls if we cant beat them.
I agree, Casey should be in the 23 minimum. MOD is certaintly up against it but I was suprisingly shocked at how good he was at carrying the ball against Toulon, he blew Wilko over the line and he's one of the most ferocious tacklers in the game. I wouldn't write MOD off yet but there is questions marks over our 2nd rows, for me DOC has been average for a while now and it's time he stood up to the plate.

[dropkick]

Court
Cronin
Buckley
O'Callaghan
Toner
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fizgerald
P. Wallace
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

I'd pick Toner for the lineout and that would take the
pressure off the hooker which means I'd give a game to
Toner. I'd also like to see SOB starting to see how he does.

Have Healy, Wallace and Earls etc on the bench to make an
impact off it.

[Aussiedub]

If ever there is a game for Kearney it is this one with SA's style of play and use of the aerial bomb which he can defuse.


Would like to see Cronin, Toner, SOB get starts in the pack to see how they cope.

[davidos]

Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Cullen
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fizgerald
Darcy
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

[bellmop]

Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Cullen
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fizgerald
Darcy
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney


smileys/lol.gif Im interested in your subs bench

[upandout]

Healy
Cronin
Buckley
DOC
MOD
Leamy
Wallace (O'Brien on after 50 minutes)
Heaslip
Stringer
ROG
Earls
Sexton
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Fitzgerald

[Mcork]

Need to load the pack with ball carriers and start picking guys which will give us the best chance of winning the 6n's not necessarily the next match (although that usually amounts to the same thing). However if we were playing France tommorow with the slam on the line, I'd pick Wally at 7 but I agree against SA, we need SO'B so that he can be up to speed for the next 6n's. Wally is at an age where decline will set in soon - we can't afford to wait for that. Anyway we know what he can do.


Healy - over Court as he's better in the loose - Court should be sprung if Healy's exposed in the scrum.
Cronin - serious ball carrier - IRL must get his throwing & scrummaging up to the level. Offers so much more than anyone else in the loose. needs games
Buckley - same as above (Throwing aside)
DO'C - by default
Cullen
- not much else - we'll really miss PO'C but Cullen has a chance to show he's decent back up
Ferris
- needs a big game otherwise Leamy should come in for AB's. A lot of his recent performances have been below his standard. Last chance.
O'Brien
- see comment above re Wally - a promising player who needs games
Heaslip
- Needs to be pack leader in PO'C's absence
Reddan
- needs a big game
Sexton
- he's the future although it's encouraging to see ROG back in form
Fizgerald
- on the basis that Earls is not fit and has only played in the centre
Darcy
-
O'Driscoll

Bowe

Kearney
- see comment on Ferris (Duffy playing well and for once would deserve cap)

Bench: Court, Varley, Toner, Leamy, Stringer, RO'G, Earls

[Speedy]

Left wing and backrow are the difficult choices for me. Fitzgerald hasn't set the world alight. Earls has played 3 games, the first when he didn't seem to be fit, the second when he didn't look sharp, and a third against poor opposition, and now he's injured again.

Did anybody see how Geordan Murphy got on against Gloucester?

In the backrow, O'Brien has been playing out of his skin, Wally is back in form, and Ferris, from what I've seen, has been patchy. Leamy is also looking sharp as well.

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brien O'Driscoll
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jonny Sexton
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Tony Buckley
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Mick O'Driscoll
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Rory Best
17. Tom Court
18. Mike Ross
19. Leo Cullen
20. Stephen Ferris
21. Peter Stringer
22. Ronan O'Gara
23. Johne Murphy

Johne Murphy and Micko both get in because they've been playing regularly, and playing above themselves. I'd give Toner, Leamy, Earls, Varley a start the following week.

[Delmar O'Donnell]

Need to load the pack with ball carriers and start picking guys which will give us the best chance of winning the 6n's not necessarily the next match (although that usually amounts to the same thing). However if we were playing France tommorow with the slam on the line, I'd pick Wally at 7 but I agree against SA, we need SO'B so that he can be up to speed for the next 6n's. Wally is at an age where decline will set in soon - we can't afford to wait for that. Anyway we know what he can do.


Healy - over Court as he's better in the loose - Court should be sprung if Healy's exposed in the scrum.
Cronin - serious ball carrier - IRL must get his throwing & scrummaging up to the level. Offers so much more than anyone else in the loose. needs games
Buckley - same as above (Throwing aside)
DO'C - by default
Cullen
- not much else - we'll really miss PO'C but Cullen has a chance to show he's decent back up
Ferris
- needs a big game otherwise Leamy should come in for AB's. A lot of his recent performances have been below his standard. Last chance.
O'Brien
- see comment above re Wally - a promising player who needs games
Heaslip
- Needs to be pack leader in PO'C's absence
Reddan
- needs a big game
Sexton
- he's the future although it's encouraging to see ROG back in form
Fizgerald
- on the basis that Earls is not fit and has only played in the centre
Darcy
-
O'Driscoll

Bowe

Kearney
- see comment on Ferris (Duffy playing well and for once would deserve cap)

Bench: Court, Varley, Toner, Leamy, Stringer, RO'G, Earls




Would agree one hundred per cent.

I can not understand people calling for earls to be at 15, it's madness, great player, but hasn't played there in a long time plus a much better centre/wing.

[Big-al]

Johne Murphy over Trimblesmileys/lol.gif

[The Outlaw]

Need to load the pack with ball carriers and start picking guys which will give us the best chance of winning the 6n's not necessarily the next match (although that usually amounts to the same thing). However if we were playing France tommorow with the slam on the line, I'd pick Wally at 7 but I agree against SA, we need SO'B so that he can be up to speed for the next 6n's. Wally is at an age where decline will set in soon - we can't afford to wait for that. Anyway we know what he can do.


Healy - over Court as he's better in the loose - Court should be sprung if Healy's exposed in the scrum.
Cronin - serious ball carrier - IRL must get his throwing & scrummaging up to the level. Offers so much more than anyone else in the loose. needs games
Buckley - same as above (Throwing aside)
DO'C - by default
Cullen - not much else - we'll really miss PO'C but Cullen has a chance to show he's decent back up
Ferris - needs a big game otherwise Leamy should come in for AB's. A lot of his recent performances have been below his standard. Last chance.
O'Brien - see comment above re Wally - a promising player who needs games
Heaslip - Needs to be pack leader in PO'C's absence
Reddan - needs a big game
Sexton - he's the future although it's encouraging to see ROG back in form
Fizgerald - on the basis that Earls is not fit and has only played in the centre
Darcy -
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney - see comment on Ferris (Duffy playing well and for once would deserve cap)

Bench: Court, Varley, Toner, Leamy, Stringer, RO'G, Earls



In relation to Wallace. You only should ever worry about decline when it happens.There is no indication Wallace is in decline. Its as if some people are willing himinto decline.


Shaw is a perfectexample.

[tickettout]

Real pity Casey isn't available for us, DOC is the most over rated lock in the NH imo.

[Charco]

Why hasn't Dan Chewy been included in the squad? I thought
he did well enough down under. Haven't seen him play this
season, so can't comment on current form, but I'd much
prefer him at 5 to Beanpole.

[The Outlaw]

Why hasn't Dan Chewy been included in the squad? I thought
he did well enough down under. Haven't seen him play this
season, so can't comment on current form, but I'd much
prefer him at 5 to Beanpole.


Not playing well enough

[Charco]

Why hasn't Dan
Chewy been included in the squad? I thought he did well
enough down under. Haven't seen him play this season, so
can't comment on current form, but I'd much prefer him at 5
to Beanpole.


Not playing well enough

Fair enough. Pity.

[Quinlan@6]

15. Kearney


14. Bowe


13. O Driscoll


12. D'Arcy


11. Earls


10. Sexton


9. Stringer


1. Healy


2. Cronin


3. Buckley


4. O Callaghan


5. Ferris


6. Leamy


7. Wallace


8. Heaslip


16. Court, 17. Ross, 18. O Driscoll, 19. O Brien, 20. Reddan, 20. O Gara,21. Fitzgerald

[thomond2006]

Dan Tuohy is behind Muller and Tim Barker at Ulster at the moment.

[pancake]

SA represent a physical challenge. No dis-respect to MOD but he's up against it next week. Against Australia and even NZ he'd be ok physically. This is a different level. Thats why the marginalisation of Casey has been a joke especially by Eddie. He is tailor made for these guys.


The Irish pack is never the same without POC. If he had him we would definitely win next week. Not having him evens things up a little bit. I think we have to win next Saturday. These guys are infighting, knackered and longing for the end of the season. Would be an awful kick in the balls if we cant beat them.

Bob Casey had his chance against the USA and Canada and he blew it. If
he couldn't cope with the pace in those games how could he cope with the
boks ffs. Gerry thornley is brainwashing people with these cause celebres.

[The Outlaw]

SA represent a physical challenge. No dis-respect to MOD but he's up against it next week. Against Australia and even NZ he'd be ok physically. This is a different level. Thats why the marginalisation of Casey has been a joke especially by Eddie. He is tailor made for these guys.


The Irish pack is never the same without POC. If he had him we would definitely win next week. Not having him evens things up a little bit. I think we have to win next Saturday. These guys are infighting, knackered and longing for the end of the season. Would be an awful kick in the balls if we cant beat them.




Bob Casey had his chance against the USA and Canada and he blew it. If he couldn't cope with the pace in those games how could he cope with the boks ffs. Gerry thornley is brainwashing people with these cause celebres.



Had Eddie had the foresight to use Casey when he should have we'd have a very useful backup player in Casey. As it happens its too late now butSA are likely to dominate the 2nd rows next week.

[davidos]

Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Cullen
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fizgerald
Darcy
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney


smileys/lol.gif Im interested in your subs bench

Heineken Cup is the priority.

[diarm]

i'm sorry but i honstly believe that best and reddan are the two biggest frauds in irish rugby.

best is a hooker who can't throw, isn't that good in the loose but has benefited from being an ulster man playing in a position of weak depth during a time without prominent ulstermen (pre bowe and ferris). i don't mean that as a slight against ulster. the same thing has and will happen in the future with munster and leinster players during barren times.

reddan is quite simply, pants. he is a scrumhalf made up of all the weaknesses of both stringer and o'leary, but with none of the strengths of either. his pass is laboured and innacurate, he makes very poor decisions, he takes steps plural, he doesn't defend well and he isn't very strong.

picking a team to face south africa is a different thing to picking our strongest xv for me. i think i'd go for:

healy cronin buckley
doc mod
leamy heaslip ferris
boss sexton
fitzgerald d'arcy bod bowe
kearney

with a bench of:

court, varley, toner, o'brien, stringer, rog and earls

whilst for the al blacks i'd play:

healy cronin buckley
doc mod
ferris wallace heaslip
strnger sexton
fitzgerald bod earls bowe
kearney

court, varley, toner, leamy, boss, rog and d'arcy.

[Big-al]

smileys/lol.gif- I agree Ulster need him more. Varley and Croni it is. That'll suit me fine

[Thorns]

we need agression against these guys..something were lackin in areas...we cant afford not to use leamy in that respect not that ferris is mild mannered on the field either..also if buckley is playin the coach needs to flick that mental switch he has to run riot(think handoff on shaw, throwin players away from rucks) it would be wort the admision price alone to see him eat some cocky SA winger!

[Experimental]

Totally agree with you Thorns. Leamy is hungry and has always produced the goods against the top sides, Ferris still has a lot to prove at international level imo, Leamy is just better on the ground aswell.

[Big-al]

Leamy is also from Munster - thats an added bonus

[Tobyglen]

15. Kearney


14. Bowe


13. O Driscoll


12. D'Arcy


11. Earls


10. Sexton


9. Stringer


1. Healy


2. Cronin


3. Buckley


4. O Callaghan


5. Ferris


6. Leamy


7. Wallace


8. Heaslip


16. Court, 17. Ross, 18. O Driscoll, 19. O Brien, 20. Reddan, 20. O Gara,21. Fitzgerald
Very interesting pack with huge ball carriers, has Ferris ever played lock for Ulster? I presume so. I would love to see that pack against the All-Blacks but am unsure about it's viability against the SA lineout.

[Experimental]

One of the biggest problems in Irish rugby at present is that we have no
natural openside since keith gleeson left and wallace is the next best
thing, a 6 who has experience at 7. I think a back row of heaslip,
ferris and leamy would be a big mistake. While all three are very
effective ball carriers I would fear that we wouldn't get the ball in
the first place.

Personally I think Varley is the form hooker in the country at the
moment, but kidney will surely pick one of the more experienced players.
Varley tho will surely get a run against Samoa/Argentina. On the
scrumhalf issue I reckon it has to be reddan, boss has 'lapses' in
concentration that we can't afford at international level, reddan has
heineken cup and gp titles to his name so he is proven at the top level
and is playing well at the moment. As much as I love strings he is a
defensive liability against the likes of the saffers and o'leary is just
lacking form at present and his box kicking is horrible.

[Tobyglen]

One of the biggest problems in Irish rugby at present is that we have no
natural openside since keith gleeson left and wallace is the next best
thing, a 6 who has experience at 7</span>. I think a back row of heaslip,
ferris and leamy would be a big mistake. While all three are very
effective ball carriers I would fear that we wouldn't get the ball in
the first place.

Personally I think Varley is the form hooker in the country at the
moment, but kidney will surely pick one of the more experienced players.
Varley tho will surely get a run against Samoa/Argentina. On the
scrumhalf issue I reckon it has to be reddan, boss has 'lapses' in
concentration that we can't afford at international level, reddan has
heineken cup and gp titles to his name so he is proven at the top level
and is playing well at the moment. As much as I love strings he is a
defensive liability against the likes of the saffers and o'leary is just
lacking form at present and his box kicking is horrible.

I think thats a myth, Wally, Heaslip turn over plenty of ball, our problems are our skillset aren't as high as the SH teams. Their offloading and ball skills are a higher standard and they can play at a tempo that our boys sometimes can't live with.

[Benny]

Totally agree with you Thorns. Leamy is hungry and has always produced the goods against the top sides, Ferris still has a lot to prove at international level imo, Leamy is just better on the ground aswell.


Leamy has produced against top club sides but I don't think he has conclusively proved himself at international level although he has had a few excellent performances. Ferris has proved himself through his exploits in the Grand Slam winning team but has been a bit disappointing since. I think both players are highly capable at their best but I also think neither of them are at their best often enough.

[kahalui]

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
Darcy
Trimble
Sexton
Stringer
Heaslip
SOB
Ferris
MOD
DOC
Mushy
Cronin
Healy

Subs: Varley, Court, Toner, Leamy, ROG, Boss, Earls

[Tobyglen]

Totally agree with you Thorns. Leamy is hungry and has always produced the goods against the top sides, Ferris still has a lot to prove at international level imo, Leamy is just better on the ground aswell.


Leamy has produced against top club sides but I don't think he has conclusively proved himself at international level although he has had a few excellent performances. Ferris has proved himself through his exploits in the Grand Slam winning team but has been a bit disappointing since. I think both players are highly capable at their best but I also think neither of them are at their best often enough.

You obviously didn't see Leamy play against the AB's anytime, he has more than proved himself at international level. He has over 40 caps at this stage.

[kahalui]

DKs team.. if everyone is fit:

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
Darcy
Fitz
Sexton
Reddan
Heaslip
Wallace
Ferris
Cullen
DOC
Mushy
Best
Healy

Subs- Cronin, Court, MOD, Leamy, ROG, Stringer/Boss, Earls.

Any update on BOD/Earls injuries?

[Benny]

Totally agree with you Thorns. Leamy is hungry and has always produced the goods against the top sides, Ferris still has a lot to prove at international level imo, Leamy is just better on the ground aswell.


Leamy has produced against top club sides but I don't think he has conclusively proved himself at international level although he has had a few excellent performances. Ferris has proved himself through his exploits in the Grand Slam winning team but has been a bit disappointing since. I think both players are highly capable at their best but I also think neither of them are at their best often enough.

You obviously didn't see Leamy play against the AB's anytime, he has more than proved himself at international level. He has over 40 caps at this stage.



Perhaps you missed, or chose to ignore, this part of my post " although he has had a few excellent performances". 40 caps is all very well but he certainly has not performed well in all of those or even half of them. Like I said I rate the guy but he is inconsistent. Some of that is because of injury as is Ferris' inconsistency.

I tend not to judge a player by how they have performed in a losing team against New Zealand. Call me strange if you want but I like to judge a player on their contribution over a large selection of games against lots of different opposition.

[Tobyglen]

Totally agree with you Thorns. Leamy is hungry and has always produced the goods against the top sides, Ferris still has a lot to prove at international level imo, Leamy is just better on the ground aswell.


Leamy has produced against top club sides but I don't think he has conclusively proved himself at international level although he has had a few excellent performances. Ferris has proved himself through his exploits in the Grand Slam winning team but has been a bit disappointing since. I think both players are highly capable at their best but I also think neither of them are at their best often enough.

You obviously didn't see Leamy play against the AB's anytime, he has more than proved himself at international level. He has over 40 caps at this stage.



Perhaps you missed, or chose to ignore, this part of my post " although he has had a few excellent performances". 40 caps is all very well but he certainly has not performed well in all of those or even half of them. Like I said I rate the guy but he is inconsistent. Some of that is because of injury as is Ferris' inconsistency.

I tend not to judge a player by how they have performed in a losing team against New Zealand. Call me strange if you want but I like to judge a player on their contribution over a large selection of games against lots of different opposition.

Leamy has consistently been good for Ireland, it's why he was a regular before he recieved a number of injuries, is being a regular not consistent enough?? I don't see how you can say he was inconsistent, he has performed at a decent level against all the top international teams and never looked out of place so I find your comments bizarre. Half of them he performed badly so is it?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[Mcork]

Leamy has consistently been good for Ireland, it's why he was a regular before he recieved a number of injuries, is being a regular not consistent enough?? I don't see how you can say he was inconsistent, he has performed at a decent level against all the top international teams and never looked out of place so I find your comments bizarre. Half of them he performed badly so is it?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


During EO'S's reign, being a regular wasn't an indication of anything other than being one of Eddie's favoured few.

I think back to the AI's of 2006 and the previous tour down under when the backrow of 6. N. Best, 7. Wally, 8 Leamy was untouchable. We blew SA and Aus away in this sector and in NZ we were denied a win by a poor ROG tackle and the clinical AB backs. We won the battle of the loose forwards that day.

Ferris was then outstanding in 2009 when we slammed. I think if both Leamy and Ferris are on form then Ferris just shades it. However Ferris was anonymous against France &amp; Scotland in last years 6n's and only for Leamy's injury when he was outstanding against USAP, surely would have lost his place (perhaps should have anyway).

That's one position where Kidney needs to play the competition card. Keep everyone on heir toes.

[Hugonaut]

Leamy has consistently been good for Ireland, it's why he was a regular before he recieved a number of injuries, is being a regular not consistent enough?? I don't see how you can say he was inconsistent, he has performed at a decent level against all the top international teams and never looked out of place so I find your comments bizarre. Half of them he performed badly so is it?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


During EO'S's reign, being a regular wasn't an indication of anything other than being one of Eddie's favoured few.

I think back to the AI's of 2006 and the previous tour down under when the backrow of 6. N. Best, 7. Wally, 8 Leamy was untouchable. We blew SA and Aus away in this sector and in NZ we were denied a win by a poor ROG tackle and the clinical AB backs. We won the battle of the loose forwards that day.

Ferris was then outstanding in 2009 when we slammed. I think if both Leamy and Ferris are on form then Ferris just shades it. However Ferris was anonymous against France &amp; Scotland in last years 6n's and only for Leamy's injury when he was outstanding against USAP, surely would have lost his place (perhaps should have anyway).

That's one position where Kidney needs to play the competition card. Keep everyone on heir toes.


A very good and non-partisan read of the situation Mcork. I'd add that Wallace/Sean O'Brien is another one of those situations.

I rate Wallace extremely highly, but O'Brien is playing incredible rugby at the moment and needs to be chosen to start a big game. This sort of selection quandary is unbelievable healthy for Irish rugby, as is the Best/Cronin/Varley call.

I think that there is a bit of negative provincial bias rubbing off on Best here, who is a very decent player and a genuine leader. He's had some ropey days at lineout time, but pretending that Varley or Cronin haven't is bizarre: none of them can compare to Flannery in that regard.

[Benji]

15. Kearney


14. Bowe


13. O Driscoll


12. D'Arcy


11. Earls


10. Sexton


9. Stringer


1. Healy


2. Cronin


3. Buckley


4. O Callaghan


5. Ferris


6. Leamy


7. Wallace


8. Heaslip


16. Court, 17. Ross, 18. O Driscoll, 19. O Brien, 20.
Reddan, 20. O Gara,*21. FitzgeraldVery
interesting pack with huge ball carriers, has Ferris ever
played lock for Ulster? I presume so. I would love to see
that pack against the All-Blacks but am unsure about it's
viability against the SA lineout.

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some
game time at second-row. His big enough and would make
us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the
bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get
injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.

From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the
moment.

[sewa]

Does anybody honestly think DK will pick Ferris in the second row? I mean Mushy is the obvious choice at lock

[Hugonaut]

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some

game time at second-row. His big enough and would make

us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the

bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get

injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.



From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the

moment.

Doesn't take into account the fact that Ferris doesn't jump in the middle of the line for Ulster, has never started a game for Ulster in the second row and doesn't call the lineouts for Ulster ... nor does O'Callaghan for Munster.

We'd be in a situation where we had a hooker from Connacht, a front jumper from Munster and a non-middle jumper from Ulster, none of whom make the calls in their own provincial teams or have any worthwhile experience of playing in the same pack.

Why don't we just pick Leamy at loosehead and Sean O'Brien at tighthead while we are totally ceding possession in one of our set-pieces?

[Benji]

I dont think he will but would be a nice thing to have tried
to so that if need to during a game we can use it.
Wouldnt fancy lifting Mushy. Kidney is very conservative in
his selections. Looking back most new players have been
selected due to injuries rather the taking a chance.

Ross
Cronin
Healy
Cullen
Doc
Heaslip
O'Brien
Ferris

Redden
Sexton

Bod
Darcy
Bowe
Fitz
Kearney

Stringer-- Great to bring on for tempo.
Wallace-- great player to bring in
Buckley -- Mayhem after 50 minutes
Mod
Best
Earls
O'Gara

[Big-al]

going by a couple of the player releases this weekend then it will prob be


1)Court - scrummaging vs a huge Boks pack may shade him


2)Best - added experience and ability in the close quarters i.e breakdowna nd tackling


3)Buckley


4)O'callaghan


5)Toner


6)Ferris


7)SOB


smileys/cool.gifHeaslip


9)Reddan


10)Sexton


11)Fitzgerald/Trimble - Earls is not fit


12)D'arcy


13)BOD


14)Bowe


15)Kearney


16)Cronin


17)Healy


1smileys/cool.gifO'driscoll


19)Wallace


20)Stringer


21)O'gara


22)Fitzgerald/Trimble

[Aussiedub]

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some
game time at second-row. His big enough and would make
us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the
bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get
injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.

From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the
moment.

Doesn't take into account the fact that Ferris doesn't jump in the middle of the line for Ulster, has never started a game for Ulster in the second row and doesn't call the lineouts for Ulster ... nor does O'Callaghan for Munster.

We'd be in a situation where we had a hooker from Connacht, a front jumper from Munster and a non-middle jumper from Ulster, none of whom make the calls in their own provincial teams or have any worthwhile experience of playing in the same pack.

Why don't we just pick Leamy at loosehead and Sean O'Brien at tighthead while we are totally ceding possession in one of our set-pieces?



Put Ferris in at 4 and Toner at 5. Toner calls the lineouts at Leinster. If teams like NZ etc can put in short 2nd rows at 4 for all the ball carrying why do we always say it can't be done or shouldn't be done.


Healy, Cronin, Ross, Ferris, Toner, SOB, Wallace, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Trimble, Wallace, Earls, Bowe, Kearney - Buckley, Varley, DOC, Leamy, Stringer, ROG, Fitzgerald.


Ross in for scrummaging for first 50 and Buckley for the last 30 mins to cause damage with his carrying. Ferris to provide a ball carrying option in the 2nd row and to compete physically against Botha. BOD is injured so want to try Earls outside Wallace and with such a mobile pack we can try and move them about.

[tickettout]

Is Keet fit?


I'd be inclined to start Buckley, Ross can be brought on if Buckley is struggling at scrum time.

[manofmunster]

Throwing toner in against the boks will be like watching a car crash. The guy would be absolutely eaten alive ffs.


He has absolutely no physical presence (despite his size), never dictates terms in contact, has hands like feet and offers next to nothing in the loose. The fells is just not ready for this level of rugby. I'm not sure he ever will be.

[manofmunster]

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some
game time at second-row. His big enough and would make
us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the
bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get
injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.

From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the
moment.

Doesn't take into account the fact that Ferris doesn't jump in the middle of the line for Ulster, has never started a game for Ulster in the second row and doesn't call the lineouts for Ulster ... nor does O'Callaghan for Munster.

We'd be in a situation where we had a hooker from Connacht, a front jumper from Munster and a non-middle jumper from Ulster, none of whom make the calls in their own provincial teams or have any worthwhile experience of playing in the same pack.

Why don't we just pick Leamy at loosehead and Sean O'Brien at tighthead while we are totally ceding possession in one of our set-pieces?



Put Ferris in at 4 and Toner at 5.


smileys/lol.gif


Madman. Absolutely bonkers suggestion.


Got any more where that came from??


smileys/lol.gif

[Benji]

Is Keet fit?


I'd be inclined to start Buckley, Ross can be brought on if
Buckley is struggling at scrum time.

I'd give them both some time but would think that Buckley off
the bench would offer far more. Thank God Botha isnt proping
for S.A

[Aussiedub]

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some
game time at second-row. His big enough and would make
us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the
bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get
injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.

From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the
moment.

Doesn't take into account the fact that Ferris doesn't jump in the middle of the line for Ulster, has never started a game for Ulster in the second row and doesn't call the lineouts for Ulster ... nor does O'Callaghan for Munster.

We'd be in a situation where we had a hooker from Connacht, a front jumper from Munster and a non-middle jumper from Ulster, none of whom make the calls in their own provincial teams or have any worthwhile experience of playing in the same pack.

Why don't we just pick Leamy at loosehead and Sean O'Brien at tighthead while we are totally ceding possession in one of our set-pieces?



Put Ferris in at 4 and Toner at 5.


smileys/lol.gif


Madman. Absolutely bonkers suggestion.


Got any more where that came from??


smileys/lol.gif





What is so mad about it??? Why can't Irish players do what players in France, Eng, SA, NZ etc do??? Heaven forbid we try something different and see if it works or not.

[Upfront_1979]

Throwing toner in against the boks will be like watching a car crash. The guy would be absolutely eaten alive ffs.


He has absolutely no physical presence (despite his size), never dictates terms in contact, has hands like feet and offers next to nothing in the loose. The fells is just not ready for this level of rugby. I'm not sure he ever will be.





amazing he has a couple of man of the match performances and he can't tackle, pass, catch or carry!!. Seriously does everybody on here lovestereotyping playersor what? Toner was lighweight last year but has bulked up quite a lot. I've seen him clearing rucks with ease which considering he's 6'10 is no mean feat. He's an excellent lineout option and works well with a strong agressive partner like Hines. D ryan should have been a shoe-in as backup lock but he has done himself no favours in recent games. Toner deserves a shot to see if he can hold his own at this level.

[Mcork]

In relation to Wallace. You only should ever worry about decline when it happens.There is no indication Wallace is in decline. Its as if some people are willing himinto decline.


Shaw is a perfectexample.

I agree Wally is showing no signs of slowing down. However the attitude of not worrying about succession is what brought Munster to their knees in San Seb last season. Mushy was a year behind where he should have been because we stuck with Hayes too long. You just cannot afford not to develop younger players especially when the incumbents are in their mid thirties.

Hopefully Wally will keep going until the RWC but a lot of people thought that about Hayes as well.

[jeepers]

In relation to Wallace. You only should ever worry about decline when it happens.There is no indication Wallace is in decline. Its as if some people are willing himinto decline.


Shaw is a perfectexample.

I agree Wally is showing no signs of slowing down. However the attitude of not worrying about succession is what brought Munster to their knees in San Seb last season. Mushy was a year behind where he should have been because we stuck with Hayes too long. You just cannot afford not to develop younger players especially when the incumbents are in their mid thirties.

Hopefully Wally will keep going until the RWC but a lot of people thought that about Hayes as well.


The reason why Mushy didn't get more game time was he was sick a fair bit in the last couple of years. Most people were amazed that Kidney persisted with him.

Some people here had Alan Quinlan written off about 4 years ago. Wally is a phenomonal athlete and I can't see him declining so much in the next 9 months. Wally is 34 - not 37 which is what the Bull will be tomorrow. Happy birthday Bull.

By the way, for all those Bob Casey for Ireland fans - in his column today in the Irish Times he talks about retiring from rugby in 2 years time!

[Tobyglen]

Schalk Burger and Juan de Jongh have become the latest players to pull out of the South Africa squad to tour Europe.

Both players suffered injuries in Saturday's Currie Cup final - and have now been withdrawn from the squad after scans in Johannesburg on Monday.

Burger has suffered a broken rib, while De Jongh has a hairline fracture on his left ankle - with the duo joining John Smit, Jaque Fourie, Wynand Olivier, Andries Bekker, Fourie du Preez, Heinrich Brüssow, JP Pietersen, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Butch James, BJ Botha and Ricky Januarie on the sidelines.

Adi Jacobs has already been called up as cover for De Jongh, with the uncapped Deon Stegmann replacing Burger.

Bulls full-back Zane Kirchner has also been added to squad as cover to the back division.

"It's a blow to lose players but we've rolled with the punch and already moved on," said Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.


We should win this game now, they are decimated with injuries.
</span>

[Benji]

Ya Watched that game, Burger had a poor game but took an
awful tackle which left him on the ground for a few minutes.
He got up and scored a try a few minutes later. Tough lad
even if he a bit of a p**ck.

Some injuries but sure will all balance out if we are missing
Bod

[jeepers]

Throwing toner in against the boks will be like watching a car crash. The guy would be absolutely eaten alive ffs.


He has absolutely no physical presence (despite his size), never dictates terms in contact, has hands like feet and offers next to nothing in the loose. The fells is just not ready for this level of rugby. I'm not sure he ever will be.

There is no way either Toner or Ross will start against the Boks, whatever about making the bench. I remember hearing Keith Wood (I think) talk about what it would be like for Cian Healy when he got his first start against Australia. Woody said that Healy wouldn't know what would hit him with regard to the pace and intencity of the game and for the first 25 minutes it is pure hell and you don't think you will be able to keep it up and you start making mistakes etc. I don't think either Ross or Toner started the Clermont game last year which is probably the closest games to international standard either would have had a chance to play in and Ross isn't the most mobile of props although he has come on a fair bit. When you see Saracens losing (badly) at home to Exeter, maybe the Leinster win against them wasn't that great a win.

[Hugonaut]

Ya Watched that game, Burger had a poor game but took an

awful tackle which left him on the ground for a few minutes.

He got up and scored a try a few minutes later. Tough lad

even if he a bit of a p**ck.



Some injuries but sure will all balance out if we are missing

Bod

It's going to be very interesting to see how we do sans</span> O'Driscoll, O'Connell and O'Gara if none of them are available [or selected to start, in O'Gara's case] for the South Africa match.

That trinity is the rock upon whom Irish rugby has built its success over the last decade. I can't help but remember the November 2005 internationals against New Zealand and Australia, when we went into both matches with relatively full-strength teams barring the loss of O'Connell and O'Driscoll and were well-beaten and embarrassed both times out by non-vintage SH outfits.

That's a horrendous injury bill though for the Boks.

[Benji]

Some players do well out of others injuries. Hopefully we can
develop a few more players to play for next year. We cant
keep picking the same players and expect vast improvement.
Sa will be alright. They have some fine players. The young 10
from Sharks looks good.

[sewa]

Ross, Boss, Wilkinson and Horgan have all been sent back to base camp.

[Clubman]

Nice Team, Ive been hoping that Ferris could get some
game time at second-row. His big enough and would make
us fairly mobile. I'd use it has an option when selecting the
bench. Only problem is the big chance that Ferris will get
injured. Would start Ross and bring on Buckley.

From what Ive seen of Ryan this year his not up to it at the
moment.

Doesn't take into account the fact that Ferris doesn't jump in the middle of the line for Ulster, has never started a game for Ulster in the second row and doesn't call the lineouts for Ulster ... nor does O'Callaghan for Munster.

We'd be in a situation where we had a hooker from Connacht, a front jumper from Munster and a non-middle jumper from Ulster, none of whom make the calls in their own provincial teams or have any worthwhile experience of playing in the same pack.

Why don't we just pick Leamy at loosehead and Sean O'Brien at tighthead while we are totally ceding possession in one of our set-pieces?



Put Ferris in at 4 and Toner at 5.


smileys/lol.gif


Madman. Absolutely bonkers suggestion.


Got any more where that came from??


smileys/lol.gif





What is so mad about it??? Why can't Irish players do what players in France, Eng, SA, NZ etc do??? Heaven forbid we try something different and see if it works or not.

I tend to agree with AD on this matter. Failure to think outside the box is an Irish failure. Cost us and Cooder dear in 2007.

Someone mentioned Butler among those compared to Ryan. Butler was only a sub on the Munster A team the last game I saw so don't know how he can be ahead of Dominic Ryan. The D Ryans seem to be getting more prolific aroudn here so will soon have to give them nick names like in Tipp eh? smileys/lol.gif Actually, I think that Dominic lad has Tipp roots. No?

[sewa]

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20679.php


Does nobody read the news.smileys/wink.gif

[The Outlaw]

Ross, Boss, Wilkinson and Horgan have all been sent back to base camp.


The Ross decision is fundamentally flawed for this game. Dreadful decision by Kidney.


It will be an unmitiagted disaster if we cant beat SA on Saturday wth them missing half a team.

[sewa]

We are not at SA's level so any result over them would be a huge achievement no matter what the voice of many flawed opinions thinks.

[Hugonaut]

We are not at SA's level so any result over them would be a huge achievement no matter what the voice of many flawed opinions thinks.

We've beaten South Africa three times in a row at home. They're badly coached, missing a long list of players, including a number of leaders [Smit, du Preez, Burger] and are coming off a very, very poor series of results in the Tri-Nations.

They've picked a squad of 30 with no fewer than 7 rookies in it [source: http://www.sarugby.co.za/newsarticle.aspx?newsid=382579&amp;leagueid=&amp;fixturesc atid=&amp;resultscatid=&amp;vidcatid=&amp;piccat=&amp;statscatid=&amp; statsteam=&amp;newscat= ] and a further 6 who have single figure number of caps.

Don't get me wrong, I think a win over SA would be a good result, but it is exactly what we should be looking for.

[The Outlaw]

We are not at SA's level so any result over them would be a huge achievement no matter what the voice of many flawed opinions thinks.





A victory at home against a team at war withthe management, missing halfa team and physically knackered at the end of the seasonis nothing more then we should expect. Especially after losing our last 5 matches in a row.


Lets not go easy just because the coach is from Munster. This is a game Ireland need to win.

[sewa]

Wrong again. This is an irrelevance of a game. A failed money spinner.

[scotscor]

1 second row and two back row to drop out presumable Dryan, Muldoon and one of SOB/Leamy/Wally (God forbid).
Duffy and Murphy to drop out alongside two from (Trimble, Earls, Wallace, Fitz, Darcy, Kearney)
Very tough choices in those positions.

[tickettout]

Wrong again. This is an irrelevance of a game. A failed money spinner.





Where's your money going this w/e? AB's to wallop the spread?


Ireland?


Don't be greedy with the free money tipssmileys/wink.gif

[sewa]

Never greedy with the free money TT smileys/biggrin.gif. Need to seethe sides named and the spreads.

[The Outlaw]

Never greedy with the free money TT smileys/biggrin.gif. Need to seethe sides named and the spreads.


Its ok Ryan Jones is injured

[sewa]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif

[The Outlaw]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif


I'm simply making the point due to Ryans abscece have you any tips for MOM on Saturday.


From the same book as Johnny Wilkinson cant play at all


Other chapters include Johnny Sexton had a poor game against Saracens


With the Epilogue being Leinster have a poor side but they've beaten Munster 5 times in a row


smileys/lol.gif


20-20 hindsight is what we all do best on this websitesmileys/lol.gif. Including me. Lighten up.

[tickettout]

Wombat sent me an abusive pm today because of my signature.smileys/lol.gif


Made my daysmileys/biggrin.gif

[The Outlaw]

Wombat sent me an abusive pm today because of my signature.smileys/lol.gif


Made my daysmileys/biggrin.gif





smileys/lol.gif.

[Combatlogo]

Wombat sent me an abusive pm today because of my signature.smileys/lol.gif


Made my daysmileys/biggrin.gif





Abusive? God bless your innocence if you thought it was abusive.


To highlight what a spoofer you are Tw*tty, and seeing as you think other people actually give a s**t, here's the correspondence for others to decide. Obviously need to scroll down and read up.


Wound up...http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/lol.gif








Tickettwat=Twatty=you.


Jeez, I know you're dumb but come on.


"Wound up"? http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/lol.gifNope, I think you're hilarious, like I said.


If I were mentioning you in my signature, then maybe you'd have some evidence to think I'm wound up.


BTW, I've no idea why you think I'm s**te at maths or why you're so obsessed about the subject.


Regards, Twatty.


CL


-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : tickettout
Sent : 01 November 2010 at 5:48pm




Who is Twatty?


You seem all wound up.


Mission accomplishedhttp://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/wink.gif


-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : Combatlogo
Sent : 01 November 2010 at 12:46pm




Congrats on the new signature Twatty, it's hilarious...hilarious in a "laughing at you, not with you" manner, of course.


Could you not have tried tobe a bit original? After all, I used the "offer of remedial English classes" gag on you several times when you managed to mangle the sentences you were struggling to put together to express your deluded ramblings. You're still doing this in your signature I notice.


As I've said before, it's your cyber obsession with me is just another way of saying you care. I do so enjoy our battle of wits, even if you come armed with a pea-shooter while I've got an SSBN.


Take care Twatty.

[The Word Is Born]

You just to love the INTERNETS
http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/TheWordIsBorn/1Z5_helloseriousbusiness3am.jpg

[tickettout]

Where can a guy get an internet restraining order?


I don't want to be responsible for this guy jumping into the liffey.smileys/lol.gif

[sewa]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif


I'm simply making the point due to Ryans abscece have you any tips for MOM on Saturday.


From the same book as Johnny Wilkinson cant play at all


Other chapters include Johnny Sexton had a poor game against Saracens


With the Epilogue being Leinster have a poor side but they've beaten Munster 5 times in a row


smileys/lol.gif


20-20 hindsight is what we all do best on this websitesmileys/lol.gif. Including me. Lighten up.


Ryan has an abscese? Can be quite painful those

[The Outlaw]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif


I'm simply making the point due to Ryans abscece have you any tips for MOM on Saturday.


From the same book as Johnny Wilkinson cant play at all


Other chapters include Johnny Sexton had a poor game against Saracens


With the Epilogue being Leinster have a poor side but they've beaten Munster 5 times in a row


smileys/lol.gif


20-20 hindsight is what we all do best on this websitesmileys/lol.gif. Including me. Lighten up.





Ryan has an abscese? Can be quite painful those


Its ok Combat is helping me out

[Tobyglen]

Where can a guy get an internet restraining order?


I don't want to be responsible for this guy jumping into the liffey.smileys/lol.gif



I think it's fair to say your winding up has finally got to him.smileys/lol.gif

[lactose intolerant]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif


I'm simply making the point due to Ryans abscece have you any tips for MOM on Saturday.


From the same book as Johnny Wilkinson cant play at all


Other chapters include Johnny Sexton had a poor game against Saracens


With the Epilogue being Leinster have a poor side but they've beaten Munster 5 times in a row


smileys/lol.gif


20-20 hindsight is what we all do best on this websitesmileys/lol.gif. Including me. Lighten up.





Ryan has an abscese? Can be quite painful those


Its ok Combat is helping me out

smileys/lol.gif
by the by, you forgot the whole Jordan Crane is quality phase

[Tobyglen]

If you'd like to do a comparison I will meet you on the betting thread. Actually I forgot your speciality is analysiswith 20 : 20 hindsightsmileys/lol.gif


I'm simply making the point due to Ryans abscece have you any tips for MOM on Saturday.


From the same book as Johnny Wilkinson cant play at all


Other chapters include Johnny Sexton had a poor game against Saracens


With the Epilogue being Leinster have a poor side but they've beaten Munster 5 times in a row


smileys/lol.gif


20-20 hindsight is what we all do best on this websitesmileys/lol.gif. Including me. Lighten up.





Ryan has an abscese? Can be quite painful those


Its ok Combat is helping me out

smileys/lol.gif
by the by, you forgot the whole Jordan Crane is quality phase

smileys/lol.gif, That was priceless!

[Mcork]

We are not at SA's level so any result over them would be a huge achievement no matter what the voice of many flawed opinions thinks.

We've beaten South Africa three times in a row at home. They're badly coached, missing a long list of players, including a number of leaders [Smit, du Preez, Burger] and are coming off a very, very poor series of results in the Tri-Nations.

They've picked a squad of 30 with no fewer than 7 rookies in it [source: http://www.sarugby.co.za/newsarticle.aspx?newsid=382579&amp;leagueid=&amp;fixturesc atid=&amp;resultscatid=&amp;vidcatid=&amp;piccat=&amp;statscatid=&amp; statsteam=&amp;newscat= ] and a further 6 who have single figure number of caps.

Don't get me wrong, I think a win over SA would be a good result, but it is exactly what we should be looking for.


Agree with this. On the coaching front, I think SA are in a similar place to EOS coached IRL pre RWC07. The rot has set in and only a change in coach can stop it. IRL should win.

[Jackie Brown]

15.) Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14.) Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13.) Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
12.) Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11.) Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
10.) Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9.) Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)

1.) Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2.) Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3.) Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
4.) Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5.) Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6.) Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7.) David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8.) Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16.) Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
17.) Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18.) John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
19.) Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
20.) Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
21.) Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
22.) Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23.) Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)

Deccy must see Court as a loosehead and seems determined to perservere with the enigma that is Buckley. Sexton has to start and with Paddy being forced to play 10 a number of times this season he will provide cover. Whether that means D'Arcy will start with Wallace on the bench I'm not sure but Wallace brings more to the table and has been in good form. 4 Ulstermen in the 23man lineup, shows the current state of affairs North of the border...

[tickettout]

No ROGsmileys/shock.gif

[Jackie Brown]

Wallace can cover 10, from the bench more than likely. What does ROG bring to the table that Sexton doesn't?

[cor84]

from here (http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20686.php)


<div ="absact ">The Ireland team to play South Africa in
the opening game of the 2010 Guinness Series shows the return of several
players who missed the summer tour to New Zealand and Australia.

</span></div>

<div =" share">
<div =" tweetmeme">

</div>


<div =" facebookshare">
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishrugby.ie%2Fnews %2F20686.php&amp;t=Irish%20Rugby%20%3A%20Guinness%20Se ries%20%3A%20Ireland%20Team%20To%20Play%20South%20 Africa&amp;src=sp)

</div>



</div>
<s&#111;ng>Luke Fitzgerald</s&#111;ng> starts his first international in
nearly a year since playing in the Australia game last November and is
named on the left wing, with <s&#111;ng>Tommy Bowe</s&#111;ng> and <s&#111;ng>Rob Kearney</s&#111;ng> making up the other back three positions.


<s&#111;ng>Eoin Reddan</s&#111;ng> has been given the starting birth at scrum half and <s&#111;ng>Rory Best</s&#111;ng> will start at hooker after missing the summer tour due to an ankle injury. Best will pack down in the front row with <s&#111;ng>Tony Buckley</s&#111;ng> and <s&#111;ng>Cian Healy</s&#111;ng> at tight and loose head respectively, both of whom started the last international against Australia.


<s&#111;ng>Donncha O'Callaghan</s&#111;ng> and <s&#111;ng>Mick O'Driscoll</s&#111;ng> also both started the game in June against Australia and will again be the second row partnership for this game. <s&#111;ng>Stephen Ferris</s&#111;ng> and <s&#111;ng>David Wallace</s&#111;ng> are named in the back row alongside <s&#111;ng>Jamie Heaslip</s&#111;ng>.


<s&#111;ng>Ireland Team (to play South Africa, Guinness Series 2010, Aviva Stadium, November 6th, 17:30)</s&#111;ng>


15 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) <s&#111;ng>Captain</s&#111;ng>

12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)

11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrcok College/Leinster)

10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)

9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)

2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)

3 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)

6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)

8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)


<s&#111;ng>Replacements:</s&#111;ng>


16 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)

17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)

18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)

19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

22 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)

[Jackie Brown]

Mick O'feckin'Driscoll smileys/rolleyes.gif





Three Ulster Players in the 23man Squad, a new low for Ulster Rugby.

[sewa]

No ROGsmileys/shock.gif


Hook, line and sinker smileys/lol.gif

[tickettout]

No ROGsmileys/shock.gif


Hook, line and sinker smileys/lol.gif





Just after waking up with a hangoversmileys/lol.gif


I'ma different animal later in the day

[Rabb1tts Jump]

When have we ever announced a team this early in the day?

Very astute media managment!

[Jackie Brown]

When have we ever announced a team this early in the day?

Very astute media managment!






It's to distract the Proles from the back tracking over ticket policy.

[Benji]

No Sean O'Brien -- One of the form players


Other than that it a Kidney no gambles or risks selection.


There's a few tight calls in there. Good side and the strongest side we could probably put out par O'Brien.

[kahalui]

Mick O'feckin'Driscoll smileys/rolleyes.gif





Three Ulster Players in the 23man Squad, a new low for Ulster Rugby.

Even the most biased of Munster players wouldnt pick DR to start, you did.

[Mebawsa Ritchie]

When have we ever announced a team this early in the day?

I also shocked at this horrendously early announcement smileys/shock.gif

Gives a very clear advantage to the Bokke.

[kahalui]

No SOB?

Surprised to see DR ahead of Toner and Cullen for bench spots. MOD was a no-brainer.

[mtcmolloy]

Is ferris playing better than SOB this season?


I see sob as a 6. Is he not considered because he's 'a 7'?

[RugbyBug]

As usual Deccy bottles the big calls,


Donnacha Ryan does nothing accept pull angry faces, ive said it on here before. Mick f**king O'Driscoll, come on, start one of the young lads, especally with a callow enough front row you need a bit of bulk at scrum time and he goes with MOD, brilliant. Also what has leamy done to get ahead of SOB on the bench, he hasnt broken a tackle this year and is about as dynamic as Martin Corry at the moment, he goes to ground too easily, the irish "Ryan Jones". And then if we need to change the game we can bring on ROG, excellent, that'll scare the Boks.


Kidney out, and im not joking, the man is doing less than EOS to develop squad depth

[busbi]

Court should be ahead of Healy, Cronin should be ahead of Best, SOB should be ahead of Wallace. Strongteam though that i'd back to win. I'd worry about Micko at this level but we'retight at second row andCullen hasn't played properly since last season.

[Lenden]

As usual Deccy bottles the big
calls,


Donnacha Ryan does nothing accept pull angry faces,
ive said it on here before. Mick f**king O'Driscoll, come on,
start one of the young lads, especally with a callow enough
front row you need a bit of bulk at scrum time and he goes
with MOD, brilliant. Also what has leamy done to get ahead
of SOB on the bench, he hasnt broken a tackle this year
and is about as dynamic as Martin Corry at the moment, he
goes to ground too easily, the irish "Ryan Jones". And then
if we need to change the game we can bring on ROG,
excellent, that'll scare the Boks.


Kidney out, and im not joking, the man is doing less
than EOS to develop squad depth

Ah jeez dude what a load of old w**k!

Kidney out? your one gas man - ok one or 2 questionable
calls but what you gonna do - there'll be plenty of time for
experiment post wc when they'll all retire

[RugbyBug]

Good idea, wait for everyone to retire -THEN start replacing them, genius.


MOD adds nothing to that pack and wont in 12 months either. He has had one good performance this year against a half interest Chris Chesney. There is time for one of the young lads to come through Tuohy or Toner or even Ryan to get his act together.


My concern is that yet again Kidney has passed up a rare chance to give a couple of young guys a chance to prove themselves at home to a half strength boks team. EOS was crucified on here for similiar selections, yet kidney escapes. He is making the same errors and we all know where this is headed










As usual Deccy bottles the big
calls,



Donnacha Ryan does nothing accept pull angry faces,
ive said it on here before. Mick f**king O'Driscoll, come on,
start one of the young lads, especally with a callow enough
front row you need a bit of bulk at scrum time and he goes
with MOD, brilliant. Also what has leamy done to get ahead
of SOB on the bench, he hasnt broken a tackle this year
and is about as dynamic as Martin Corry at the moment, he
goes to ground too easily, the irish "Ryan Jones". And then
if we need to change the game we can bring on ROG,
excellent, that'll scare the Boks.



Kidney out, and im not joking, the man is doing less
than EOS to develop squad depth

Ah jeez dude what a load of old w**k!

Kidney out? your one gas man - ok one or 2 questionable
calls but what you gonna do - there'll be plenty of time for
experiment post wc when they'll all retire

[mtcmolloy]

when are they going to name the team? 1oclock or what? sick of waiting.

[RugbyBug]

when are they going to name the team? 1oclock or what? sick of waiting.


Already released


15 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) <S&#111;NG>Captain</S&#111;NG>
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrcok College/Leinster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)


<S&#111;NG>Replacements:</S&#111;NG>


16 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster

[bobbin]

Those teams are bulls**t id say, no sign of a team on RTE, Irish Times, or irish rugby website

[RedRevolution]

Yeah is this the actual team? Why is it here before it's on the IRFU
website or RTE or anything?

[Random_punter]

Yeah is this the actual team? Why is it here before it's on the IRFU

website or RTE or anything?

Something going on here, that same team is named on planet rugby, but no official source or news outlet has it....


Coupled with the fact that the management NEVER announce this early leads me to believe that somewhere, someone has screwed up.

[cor84]

It was on the IRFU website this morning, but has since been removed. I'd imagine it was pushed early in error, then removed once someone noticed.

But I've no doubt it is the correct team.

[LLCOOLJ14]

Yeah is this the actual team? Why is it here before it's on the IRFU
website or RTE or anything?

Something going on here, that same team is named on planet rugby, but no official source or news outlet has it....


Coupled with the fact that the management NEVER announce this early leads me to believe that somewhere, someone has screwed up.



It was on here,but they have taken it back down:


1 hour ago - Brian O'Driscoll will captain Ireland for the historic first <S&#079;NG>rugby</S&#079;NG> international in Aviva Stadium ... 4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/<S&#079;NG>Munster</S&#079;NG>) ...



http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20686.php

[dropkick]

Is there only 1 prop on the bench for internationals?

[Aussiedub]

Glad to see young talent and form is being used as a basis for picking the team....

[Jorm]

Good idea, wait for everyone to retire -THEN start replacing them, genius.


MOD adds nothing to that pack and wont in 12 months either. He has had one good performance this year against a half interest Chris Chesney. There is time for one of the young lads to come through Tuohy or Toner or even Ryan to get his act together.


My concern is that yet again Kidney has passed up a rare chance to give a couple of young guys a chance to prove themselves at home to a half strength boks team. EOS was crucified on here for similiar selections, yet kidney escapes. He is making the same errors and we all know where this is headed





Too many people obsessed with worrying about tomorrow. Worry about today and win the match. international games are all about winning matches and none of the guys you mentioned have done anything to deserve being within an arses roar of getting a chance in the Irish side. You have to earn your caps.

[Lenden]

Good idea, wait for everyone to retire -THEN start
replacing them, genius.


MOD adds nothing to that pack and wont in 12 months
either. He has had one good performance this year against
a half interest Chris Chesney. There is time for one of the
young lads to come through Tuohy or Toner or even Ryan
to get his act together.


My concern is that yet again Kidney has passed up a
rare chance to give a couple of young guys a chance to
prove themselves at home to a half strength boks team.
EOS was crucified on here for similiar selections, yet
kidney escapes. He is making the same errors and we all
know where this is headed





Too many people obsessed with worrying about
tomorrow. Worry about today and win the match.
international games are all about winning matches and
none of the guys you mentioned have done anything to
deserve being within an arses roar of getting a chance in
the Irish side. You have to earn your caps.

Agreed

[mtcmolloy]

If that's the actual team, then SOB is the big loser, and leamy is lucky to be there.

[grafter1]

Well if that's the team Tom Court and Sean O'Brien can count themselves as very unlucky.

[mahoney]

If thats the selection its hard to argue with most of it,Wally
probably lucky to get ahead of sob,MOD is a no brainer and
would expect nothing less than the usual from our Freinds
from the Pale on here they would probably want to bring
back mok.Toner just wouldnt cut it at this level he is a good
lineout operator and that is it.Donnacha Ryan whilst not
been in great form is just back from a long injury lay off
and is worth sticking with he was really starting to live upto
his reptuation before his lay off and will come good
again.Will probably be shot as a munster fan for saying this
but if ROG aint starting he shouldnt be on the bench as he
can only cover 1 position,Paddy Wallace can cover 2 center
very well and fly half at a shove

[Mebawsa Ritchie]

Glad to see young talent and form is being used as a basis for picking the team....

It's a 4 match series. Cool your jets.

[bootlace]

Yeah is this the actual team? Why is it here before it's on the IRFU
website or RTE or anything?

Something going on here, that same team is named on planet rugby, but no official source or news outlet has it....


Coupled with the fact that the management NEVER announce this early leads me to believe that somewhere, someone has screwed up.



It was on here,but they have taken it back down:


1 hour ago - Brian O'Driscoll will captain Ireland for the historic first <S&#079;NG>rugby</S&#079;NG> international in Aviva Stadium ... 4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/<S&#079;NG>Munster</S&#079;NG>) ...



http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20686.php











same thing happened last season as well,

[RobbieG]

Glad to see young talent and form is being used as a basis for picking the team....

Quite right, this Darcy/BOD axis hasn't exactly clicked much over the past couple of years.

[Clubman]

when are they going to name the team? 1oclock or what? sick of waiting.


Already released


15 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) <s&#111;ng>Captain</s&#111;ng>
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrcok College/Leinster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)


<s&#111;ng>Replacements:</s&#111;ng>


16 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster

I thought international teams now consisted of 23? Looks weak. smileys/lol.gif

[Aussiedub]

Good idea, wait for everyone to retire -THEN start replacing them, genius.


MOD adds nothing to that pack and wont in 12 months either. He has had one good performance this year against a half interest Chris Chesney. There is time for one of the young lads to come through Tuohy or Toner or even Ryan to get his act together.


My concern is that yet again Kidney has passed up a rare chance to give a couple of young guys a chance to prove themselves at home to a half strength boks team. EOS was crucified on here for similiar selections, yet kidney escapes. He is making the same errors and we all know where this is headed





Too many people obsessed with worrying about tomorrow. Worry about today and win the match. international games are all about winning matches and none of the guys you mentioned have done anything to deserve being within an arses roar of getting a chance in the Irish side. You have to earn your caps.





So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien?

[Mebawsa Ritchie]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy</span> done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien</span>?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif

[Aussiedub]

Glad to see young talent and form is being used as a basis for picking the team....

Quite right, this Darcy/BOD axis hasn't exactly clicked much over the past couple of years.



If you saw my ideal team you would have seen I would have preferred Wallace/Earls to be given a chance in the centre. Difference is unlike with O'Brien there isn't someone who is in outstanding form to replace them.

[grafter1]

Leo Cullen should come in once he gets another couple of games under his belt. Sean O'Brien should have been picked ahead of Wally (assuming the selection is as posted)


Ryan is not international standard but then again neither is Toner......yet

[mahoney]

Leo Cullen should come in once he gets
another couple of games under his belt.* Sean O'Brien should
have been picked ahead of Wally (assuming the selection is as
posted)


Ryan is not international standard but then again neither is
Toner......yet


* [COLOR=RED]Toner......yet now ever will be
for that matter

[i_like_cake]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy</span> done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien</span>?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif


If DK had maybe included SOB for this game, and then rotated Wally in for the ABs, which he most likey will do (in the opposite way) we might have had less bleating from the pale... but you know yourself, why bother entering into a cogent argument with this one, is beyond useless...

Let him dive right in and assume the worst...

I can't see Ireland doing without Leamy's aggressiveness against the SH teams... As for cullen, I am not sure he is up to match fitness... Maybe Gert and DK have a bit more to say on the matter, but i am happy to see how these games turn out...

Is it just me but do we look ridiculously light in our front 5 because of no Paul O'Connell

[Aussiedub]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif



Toner completely outplayed Ryan in last meeting, Cullen has shown more at international level than MOD and O'Brien is probably the form backrow in Ireland.

[Fraggle]

Team just announced. Very harsh on SOB. I'm a big Wally
fan, but would have put SOB in on merit.

[sewa]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif



He has given up all pretence of being serious. Worst poster on here by a distance and given the Outlaws production line ofcrapthat is saying something smileys/lol.gif

[mtcmolloy]

Team just announced. Very harsh on SOB. I'm a big Wally
fan, but would have put SOB in on merit.


And?


what is the team?

[youngmunster]

Boks to face strong Irish outfit
02nd November 2010 10:45


Fitzgerald: Back for Ireland
Related links
Teams
Ireland
Also see
All the November Test news
Smal a threat to the Springboks?
Ireland have been boosted by the return of several key players for Saturday's November Test opener against South Africa at Aviva Stadium.





The biggest change comes on the wing where British and Irish Lions' ace Luke Fitzgerald returns to the international side for the first time in 12 months.



Fitzgerald, who last played for Ireland against Australia last November, joins Tommy Bowe and Rob Kearney in the back three.



Eoin Reddan has got the nod for the number nine jersey over the vastly experienced Peter Stringer, while Rory Best starts at hooker.



Ulsterman Best missed the June tour to New Zealand and Australia with an ankle injury but he will partner props Tony Buckley and Cian Healey.



In the back row, Stephen Ferris, David Wallace and Jamie Heaslip will look to form a formidable-looking unit.



Kicking king Ronan O'Gara has to settle for a place on the bench, though, with Jonathan Sexton preferred at fly-half.



Ireland: 15 Robert Kearney, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Brian O'Driscoll (c), 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Luke Fitzgerald, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Eoin Reddan, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 David Wallace, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Mick O'Driscoll, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 Tony Buckley, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.
Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Tom Court, 18 Donnacha Ryan, 19 Denis Leamy, 20 Peter Stringer, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Keith Earls.



Date: Saturday, November 6
Venue: Aviva Stadium
Kick-off: 17:30 GMT
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Brice Lawrence (New Zealand), Keith Brown (New Zealand)
Television match official: Hugh Watkins (Wales)

[Mebawsa Ritchie]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy</span> done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien</span>?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif



Toner completely outplayed Ryan in last meeting, Cullen has shown more at international level than MOD and O'Brien is probably the form backrow in Ireland.

Look irrespective of how much you bleatingly talk up your Ladyboys and talk down Munster players, there's ultimately only one team picked. Why not just live with it?


p.s. It's a 4 match series, of which this is the first. Other squad members will presumably get their chance too at some point.

[Fraggle]

Kearney
Bowe
Drico
Darcy
Fitz
Sexy
Reddan
Wally/heaslip/Ferris
DOC/MOD
Healy/Best/Buckley

Bench:
Cronin/Court/DRyan/Leamy/Rog/Stringer and Wallace or
Trimble or Earls. Decision to be made after training on Thur
i think.

[bosh12]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif



Toner completely outplayed Ryan in last meeting, Cullen has shown more at international level than MOD and O'Brien is probably the form backrow in Ireland.





Agreed with you, doesnt happen often. Donnacha Ryan has shown little this season to be selected in the 30 man squad, let alone 22. Sean O Brien has arguably been the best Irish player this season, should be starting.

[manofmunster]

Surprised at O' Briens ommission. I would have though he has played sufficiently well this season to merit inclusion in the match day squad for all four games (or at least, the big three - Boks/Oz/Argentina)

[Upfront_1979]

hopefully he will give others a chance and not just parachute the whole second string into the Samoa game.


Ferris has a lot to prove in this game and could drop out of the 22 altogether for theAB's game if he does not play well. On form I would probably prefer to have a starting backrow of Leamy, Heaslip, SOB with Wallace coming on for a good 20-30 minutes as an impact sub.


Earls is the super sub covering all 5 back positions so makes sense. There is an argument for P.Wallace on the bench but TBH if Sexton was injuredearly in the game I would not fancy Paddy running the game from 10 for 60-70 minutes.


Stringer is a good impact sub to speed up the game and with international squads still stuck on 22 (any idea if this will be the case in the RWC?) Court makes sense for the bench.


I think D.Ryan is a very lucky boy and I hope he gets on and shows if he's capable of upping his game because if not he's holding up a spot which we have several other options for.


Has the Bokke team been announced yet?

[Aussiedub]

So what have guys like Ryan, MOD, Leamy done recently to deserve being picked ahead of Toner, Cullen, O'Brien?

Ah come on now! smileys/lol.gif



He has given up all pretence of being serious. Worst poster on here by a distance and given the Outlaws production line ofcrapthat is saying something smileys/lol.gif





Coming from you I take that as a compliment!!!

[skinnyryan]

Team as announced to play the Boks on Saturday

Ireland team to play South Africa, Saturday 6 November, Aviva Stadium, kick-off 4.30pm

http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/skinnyryan/ZZ1_team.jpg


Replacements :

16 - Sean Cronin.
17 - Tom Court.
18 - Donnacha Ryan.
19 - Denis Leamy.
20 - Peter Stringer.
21 - Ronan O'Gara.
22 - Keith Earls.

[Point]

16 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster) / Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) / Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)

[Pluto]

As soon As I saw this team, it was apparent that Munster got all the marginal calls. i.e. Micko, Wally, and Ryan and Leamy on the bench.


Dying to dip into Leinsterfans and see the bleating!!

[mtcmolloy]

As soon As I saw this team, it was apparent that Munster got all the marginal calls. i.e. Micko, Wally, and Ryan and Leamy on the bench.


Dying to dip into Leinsterfans and see the bleating!!





yes.. now that you mention it.


it took our national radio station only 41 minutes to consider this newsworthy... (bad).


Mike corcoran reiterated at the end of his report that there was no place in the 22for SOB ... Very tough on SOB.


Although as mentioned above, this is a long month.. May be more to selection than meets the eye.. no doubt he'll be 'unleashed' eventually

[tickettout]

As soon As I saw this team, it was apparent that Munster got all the marginal calls. i.e. Micko, Wally, and Ryan and Leamy on the bench.


Dying to dip into Leinsterfans and see the bleating!!





Kidney obviously doesn't rate Aussiedubs fearsome internet knowledge.

[Benji]

Mod has had a few games this year but for me I've not been impressed with him in an Irish Jersey. Just dont think his got it for that level. Great for Munster but cant see him ever playing in the world cup.


D. Ryan---- Very Lucky has been playing crap and has had his chances in Munster with P.oc gone and hasnt taken them. On the other hand Toner great Lineout operator has looked good in his last few games and doesnt get in. Cullen could have done with more game time. We look very week in the 2nd rows Doc isnt stepping up as a leader. If the lineout is going bad we have Ryan to come on ???


In a tough game against the Sa we have very limited options on the bench. Rog and Strings can only play one position. Would rather wally in the centres before Rog. He should have put in P Wallace.


Court good call. Deserves his chance as does Cronin.

[grafter1]

Having Leamy on the bench does make sense in my opinion - especially if anything happens early to Heaslip or Ferris (aka grand slam game)


However i just cannot understand why Kidney has gone for Wally ahead of O'Brien.

[Tony Soprano]

Would agree that Wally is a strange call but it shows the lack of out and out class we have as cover. Would nearly have even looked at playing Leamy at 7 against SA as they play such a power based game with no real width.


D'Arcy is the worst call of the lot for me. Below International standard since the '05 lions Tour despite a few decent cameos. This was def the time to be moving BOD to 12 and trying Earls or especially Fitz outside him. We will regret to making the changes here down the line.


MOD's selection highlights the chronic lack of grunt coming through in the second row. People can argue for Toner over Ryan all they want but I'd see them both as being way below the acceptable international standard. Where the f**k have all the kick-s**t Ulster forwards gone?? Do we blame the Good Friday agreement???

[Clubman]

As soon As I saw this team, it was apparent that Munster got all the marginal calls. i.e. Micko, Wally, and Ryan and Leamy on the bench.


Dying to dip into Leinsterfans and see the bleating!!





Kidney obviously doesn't rate Aussiedubs fearsome internet knowledge.

All you have to do Pluto is read the biggest Leinsterfan of all tomorrow - Wardie smileys/lol.gif

Agree with all and sundry that Ryan is lucky to be included. However, it may be because he covers 6 as well, for instance if Heaslip got injured early on Leamy comes in and then what? Another thing is that Smal rates him and who would I be to disagree with Gert Smal on such matters?

[busbi]

Court good call. Deserves his chance as does Cronin.





It would be an even better call if he was starting. He is a better LH than Healy at present, no two ways about it.

[Tarfman79]

Leo Cullen should come in once he gets another couple of games under his belt. Sean O'Brien should have been picked ahead of Wally (assuming the selection is as posted)


Ryan is not international standard but then again neither is Toner......yet











Ryan is 27 next month..not exactly a spring chicken.

[Luimneach]

Some marginal calls Healy starting ahead of Court not sure about that. Same with Luke Fitz starting and Earls on the Bench Second Row seems best available really need Paulie back. Back row fair enough Good to see Mushy as a real alternative to Bull -Long time since a team was picked and Hayes was not included. Sexton Rog debate can start again personally though Rog would shade it good news for Muster he will be back with a point to prove . Best or Cronin again merits in starting either. Hard to see where the tries will come from apart from the forwards or Bowe.

[Tarfman79]

Leo Cullen should come in once he gets another couple of games under his belt. Sean O'Brien should have been picked ahead of Wally (assuming the selection is as posted)


Ryan is not international standard but then again neither is Toner......yet











Ryan is 27 next month..not exactly a spring chicken. Magner's league standard 2nd row, AIL Standard 6, bizarre selection. i'd have Ian Nagle in the squad ahead of him.

[Tarfman79]

Court good call. Deserves his chance as does Cronin.





It would be an even better call if he was starting. He is a better LH than Healy at present, no two ways about it.





he's also a better tighthead than Mushy!

[joconnell]

Makes sense to include court since we've only one prop on the bench and he does the best job of covering both sides. When is the 23 player squad coming into international games btw? Earls / Rog as sub is handy too - minimum disruption to the backline with an injury unlike the time when wallace came in and d'arcy (who was our best back on the day) moved out to the wing.

[Mebawsa Ritchie]

....Kidney obviously doesn't rate Aussiedubs fearsome internet knowledge.

This has brightened an otherwise gray and very wet day smileys/wink.gif

[Charco]

Would be surprised to see us win this. Can see Ferris getting
injured, MOD being dominated, BOD hobbling all match with
an injury, D'Arcy providing little or no spark. BUT....




In Kidney we trust. We'll probably bore them into submission.

[Jorm]

Leamy has been played some great stuff in the last few months and genuinely deserves his spot on the bench especially considering he covers the whole backrow. O'Brien is unlucky for sure but Wally is proven world class and has been playing well also. He'll definitely get a chance this autumn.


Ryan is there i presume because he covers both second row postions and also 6 being a decent lineout option from the 6 position. Toner cant cover 6 and wont be much good jumping at 2 either. Ryan on the bench was a no brainer.

[Benji]

Leamy has been played some great stuff in the last few months and genuinely deserves his spot on the bench especially considering he covers the whole backrow. O'Brien is unlucky for sure but Wally is proven world class and has been playing well also. He'll definitely get a chance this autumn.


Ryan is there i presume because he covers both second row postions and also 6 being a decent lineout option from the 6 position. Toner cant cover 6 and wont be much good jumping at 2 either. Ryan on the bench was a no brainer.





Toner cant cover 6 but he is ok at jumping at 2. His been great up and down the Lineout with Leinster and has been doing alot more work around the park compared to last year. D Ryan is in there on potential that Kidney saw in the past it's surely not on form.

[Pluto]

I have consistently failed to see what Paddy Wallace brings. He certainly doesn't put the frighteners on the opposition. With Wallace at 12, you don't bother with him and just murder Bod.





I do feel for O'Brien, and Ryan must consider himself very fortunate; should I assume there will be a bit of squad rotation, and I don't mean just the Somoa game?





It will be interesting to see

[The Doc]

Leamy has been played some great stuff in the last few months and genuinely deserves his spot on the bench especially considering he covers the whole backrow. O'Brien is unlucky for sure but Wally is proven world class and has been playing well also. He'll definitely get a chance this autumn.


Ryan is there i presume because he covers both second row postions and also 6 being a decent lineout option from the 6 position. Toner cant cover 6 and wont be much good jumping at 2 either. Ryan on the bench was a no brainer.





Not sure I totally agree - SOB can play all three back row positions but Leamy is really only 6 &amp; 8 - which is why I think Ryan is there as the second row cover - adds a bit more back row cover as well.


The alternative was go for a dedicated 2nd row cover and SOB on the bench to cover all three.


Bit surprised to be honest - SOB has been in decent form all season, works well with Heaslip and is possibly more physical then Wallace (or at least breaks through a bit more - but maybe not as good at continuity).


Would be a bit concerned at the number of guys just coming back from injury - in particular Earls. Can't see what is to be gained with that - much better to ensure he is fully recovered. But there is also BOD &amp;Ferris which - if something goes wrog - leaves us very short

[Speycaster]

I'd also reiterate the fact that we are facing 4 of the most physical teams in World rugby over a 21 day period. SOB may already be etched in stone for the NZ game. Surely the objective at this stage is to develope a squad and as such while I'm also surprised that SOB didn't make the 22, I don't necessarily see it as an ommission or a demotion.


Allowing Healy and Mushy to start in the same front row against such a powerful team is in itself a risk of sorts but a risk that needs to be taken imho. I also would have gone for MOD, of all our secont rows he is the most athletic and has good hands.......it's no coincidence that his value is being seen now that we have the new rules. I'm also quite surprised by DR's inclusion, like many here I feel that he blew the chance given to him by Munster but with Cullen and Tuohy just coming back from injury, it was probably between Ryan and Toner; no doubt Smal had some input into this decision too.


All in all I'll be holding back on judgement until the series is over.

[treatycity1]

Brian O’Driscoll has been included in the Ireland team to face South
Africa in the first autumn international at Lansdowne Road on
Saturday, but a decision on Keith Earls will have to wait, with Andrew
Trimble and Paddy Wallace also in contention for the number 22 shirt.

The
captain, who has undergone intensive rehab on a hamstring injury, joins
his perennial partner Gordon D’Arcy in midfield, while a late call will
be made on Earls, who faces competition from the Ulster duo on his
return from an ankle injury.

There is a welcome recall to the
backline for Leinster's Luke Fitzgerald, who forms a back three with
provincial team-mate Rob Kearney and Ospreys flyer Tommy Bowe.
Fitzgerald has not featured for Ireland since facing Australia in
November last year.

The Leinster halfback pairing of Jonathan
Sexton and Eoin Reddan get the nod ahead of Ronan O’Gara and Peter
Stringer, who make the bench.

In the pack, coach Declan Kidney has
opted for the Munster secondrow of Donncha O’Callaghan and Mick
O’Driscoll, omitting the in-form Devin Toner from the squad altogether,
and choosing Donnacha Ryan as back-up instead.

The backrow is an
experienced one consisting of Stephen Ferris at blindside, David Wallace
at openside and Jamie Heaslip at number eight. Cover comes in the form
of Denis Leamy, with Seán O'Brien another to be overlooked.

There
is no place for veteran prop John Hayes in the 22, either, with the
frontrow consisting of his provincial team-mate Tony Buckley, Leinster’s
Cian Healy and Ulster hooker Rory Best.

Connacht’s Seán Cronin sees his form rewarded with a place on the bench, alongside prop Tom Court.

<s&#111;ng>Ireland (v South Africa):</s&#111;ng>Robert
Kearney; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll (c), Gordon D'Arcy, Luke
Fitzgerald; Jonathan Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tony
Buckley; Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll; Stephen Ferris, David
Wallace, Jamie Heaslip.<s&#111;ng>Replacements</s&#111;ng>: Seán Cronin, Tom Court, Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara, Keith Earls/Andrew Trimble/Paddy Wallace.

[Benji]

I'd also reiterate the fact that we are facing 4 of the most physical teams in World rugby over a 21 day period. SOB may already be etched in stone for the NZ game. Surely the objective at this stage is to develope a squad and as such while I'm also surprised that SOB didn't make the 22, I don't necessarily see it as an ommission or a demotion.


Allowing Healy and Mushy to start in the same front row against such a powerful team is in itself a risk of sorts but a risk that needs to be taken imho. I also would have gone for MOD, of all our secont rows he is the most athletic and has good hands.......it's no coincidence that his value is being seen now that we have the new rules. I'm also quite surprised by DR's inclusion, like many here I feel that he blew the chance given to him by Munster but with Cullen and Tuohy just coming back from injury, it was probably between Ryan and Toner; no doubt Smal had some input into this decision too.


All in all I'll be holding back on judgement until the series is over.


Very valid points. But Its Deccie has he a better plan ? and that would be some surprise. Would think he would pick the best squad for Sa and Nz and try and win them. Because Ireland need to win.


I hope he used up the other two games to look at other players and combinations . Will be interesting to look back after the 4 games and see what changes he makes and combinations. And not ones forced on him by injuries.

[Tobyglen]

Cronin should be ahead of Best, Cronin has potentail to be outsatnding, Best is average, very inconsistent thrower. I would have Varley ahead of him.

[grafter1]

Rory Best is another lucky to be in the 22 let alone starting. I would have gone for Varley to start personally. I would have Court, Varley and SOB in for Healy, Best and Wallace.

[Redgiant]

Who"s in to cover Bods position if and or when he comes off injured? Not putting him down but he has not played a full game ina while now.

[Benji]

D Wallace. With strings coming on at 7.

[Tobyglen]

Rory Best is another lucky to be in the 22 let alone starting. I would have gone for Varley to start personally. I would have Court, Varley and SOB in for Healy, Best and Wallace.
Wally is starting correctly imo, he has played very few games this season and has been outstanding, probably our best forward. The guy reeks of class and will be needed if we are to beat SA or AB's.

Best is a very strange one though, This surely means Cronin will move next season because he's playing much better than Best but can't hold down a starting place.

[bosh12]

Best's throwing is actually very good, he had one dodgy outing in last years 6 nations and he gets labeled. Tends to be the way with Hookers.


Cronin will get a chance over the 4 matches, to be honest, he'd learn a hell of a lot against the Argies. Why would he move on the basis of one match on the bench against SA? Not everyone is a drama queen

[Mcork]

Deccy must see Court as a loosehead and seems determined to perservere with the enigma that is Buckley. Why the hell would he not persevere with arguably Munster's best tight forward of the season so far? He's stood by him when he wasn't playing well so why on earth would he drop him when he has finally started realising his potential.</span> It would have been a huge surprise if he had picked Hayes over him since he has taken the latters position at Munster?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">

Sexton has to start and with Paddy being forced to play 10 a number of times this season he will provide cover. Whether that means D'Arcy will start with Wallace on the bench I'm not sure but Wallace brings more to the table and has been in good form. 4 Ulstermen in the 23man lineup, shows the current state of affairs North of the border.
IMO he's been kind to Ulster here. Don't think Best should be in the 23 not to mind the starting XV. Also IMHO P.Wallace has not shown a lot of form and his versatility is what has saved him in regards to this squad selection.</span>



Otherwise Conservative 'here and now' selection especially Wallace at 7. Thought SO'B would have got the call based on thinking ahead to the RWC. No doubt that Kidney has picked his 'best' team for this match and to hell with the medium / long term. Risky strategy?

[Tobyglen]

Best's throwing is actually very good, he had one dodgy outing in last years 6 nations and he gets labeled. Tends to be the way with Hookers.


Cronin will get a chance over the 4 matches, to be honest, he'd learn a hell of a lot against the Argies. Why would he move on the basis of one match on the bench against SA? Not everyone is a drama queen
Because Kidneys selection are a clear indication that playing against higher opposition in the HEC is a prerequisite. They might get HEC next season but I think there is an underlying bias against Connacht players. Hagan not even considered? Fionn Carr amazingly not considered! Keatley also not an option! Cronin has been outstanding this season, Best has been very average and I have seen all of Ulsters televised games. His throwing is also not "very good", it's average. He seems to suffer confidence problems if he misses an early throw and that would be apparent if you watched any of Ulsters games in the last few seasons. For me there is a clear disparity between the two.
Varley is a much better play that the brick aswell.

[dedon]

Best's throwing is actually very good, he had one dodgy outing in last years 6 nations and he gets labeled. Tends to be the way with Hookers.


Cronin will get a chance over the 4 matches, to be honest, he'd learn a hell of a lot against the Argies. Why would he move on the basis of one match on the bench against SA? Not everyone is a drama queen

Ah come on Bosh. Best has had more than one bad day with his throwing. Against a boks lineout we need a Hooker who can throw. He can't and futhermore he looks a bit out of shape at the minute. John smit out of shape style

[Benji]

Of the game Ive seen Darcy play this year he looks better than last year. But we need options. Cant expect different results against top sides without changing things.


Cronin should have been thrown in with Varley . We all know what Best can do. He needs to see how good Cronin and Varley are at that level. Two very different players with strongpoints and stuff to work on.

[bosh12]

Thats not about Connacht, alot of it is to do with the conservative nature of the Irish selection policy. He wont pick Keatley, cause he is pandering to ROGs ego and has to play him and Sexton in the 4 games. Fionn Carr I m not sure is good enough, although I agree he deserved a shot. Hagan I would agree deserved a shot, but ahead of who? I'd say John Hayes, but the IRFU wont have their highest paid player outside of 30.


Best is a good player, Munster fans tend to criticise him cause of the Fla selection stuff, but in reality he is a good player, good darts, a leader, and a hard b*stard, which is what we need against Boks. Cronin will get his chance, soon.

[bosh12]

Best's throwing is actually very good, he had one dodgy outing in last years 6 nations and he gets labeled. Tends to be the way with Hookers.


Cronin will get a chance over the 4 matches, to be honest, he'd learn a hell of a lot against the Argies. Why would he move on the basis of one match on the bench against SA? Not everyone is a drama queen




Ah come on Bosh. Best has had more than one bad day with his throwing. Against a boks lineout we need a Hooker who can throw. He can't and futhermore he looks a bit out of shape at the minute. John smit out of shape style



I completely disagree. And you can be sure Fla or every other Hooker in the world has had more than one bad day. And what makes you think Cronins throwing is any better?

[Mcork]

TBH I would have been very worried about our lineout, considering PO'C is missing and we'll be up against probably Matfield &amp; Bakies Botha, no matter who we had at hooker. The calls need to be clever, timing impeccable and the throws on the money. I worry about R. Best - think he has fragile confidence and can go to pieces very easily if his throwing is targeted.

Perhaps the feeling is that Best has had these nightmare days before and would recover quickly if it happens while it might put Cronin back a lot more.

[Tobyglen]

Thats not about Connacht, alot of it is to do with the conservative nature of the Irish selection policy. He wont pick Keatley, cause he is pandering to ROGs ego and has to play him and Sexton in the 4 games. Fionn Carr I m not sure is good enough, although I agree he deserved a shot. Hagan I would agree deserved a shot, but ahead of who? I'd say John Hayes, but the IRFU wont have their highest paid player outside of 30.


Best is a good player, Munster fans tend to criticise him cause of the Fla selection stuff, but in reality he is a good player, good darts, a leader, and a hard b*stard, which is what we need against Boks. Cronin will get his chance, soon.
I think Hayes should have been dropped, Kestley should also be in the extended squad for the experience. Best is okey but Cronin is the coming man and should be given his chance now against the best lineout in the world. I think leadership is the reason he's there alright with POC out injured.

[Mcork]

Agree about Hayes - although a lot of people here were crazy thinking Ross would start having just earned his place on the Leinster team. That said, I don't think Hayes offers anything long term and Ross would have gained vital experience even if he'd got 10mins.

I think all the tight calls went the conservative way (and not the Munster way).
Best over Cronin, Hayes over Ross, MO'D over Toner, Wally over SO'B. It's typical Irish conservatism. Kidney is a typical Irish coach - a very talented coach but Irish nontheless. It would have been nice to see a few innovative or brave calls.

[Charco]

I'm not worried about Best's throwing, I think he's solid. I do
hope, however, that Cronin gets a decent 30 mins to a full half
of action.

[kahalui]

DK is startingBest because of his experience.


If squad-buildingwere the objective for this game- which its not, Varley/Cronin would start.

[sewa]

The level of expertise here is staggering. If only DK had asked here beforehand he could have got the team perfect!


Throwing the likes of Toner in against SA would be a nonsense. He'd be blown away. Mike Ross only scrummages and DK requires more from a prop.


Best gets the nod for better setpiece, experienceand as a pack leader. Wally over SOB is also a call designed to win the game and hopefully as a result sell a few more tickets for later games.


Plenty of chopping and changing coming up in later games too so no need to panic

[Tobyglen]

The level of expertise here is staggering. If only DK had asked here beforehand he could have got the team perfect!


Throwing the likes of Toner in against SA would be a nonsense. He'd be blown away</span>. Mike Ross only scrummages and DK requires more from a prop.


Best gets the nod for better setpiece, experienceand as a pack leader. Wally over SOB is also a call designed to win the game</span> and hopefully as a result sell a few more tickets for later games.


Plenty of chopping and changing coming up in later games too so no need to panic
True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.

[Tony Soprano]

Is Toner going to be the new MOK?

[dedon]

Best's throwing is actually very good, he had one dodgy outing in last years 6 nations and he gets labeled. Tends to be the way with Hookers.


Cronin will get a chance over the 4 matches, to be honest, he'd learn a hell of a lot against the Argies. Why would he move on the basis of one match on the bench against SA? Not everyone is a drama queen




Ah come on Bosh. Best has had more than one bad day with his throwing. Against a boks lineout we need a Hooker who can throw. He can't and futhermore he looks a bit out of shape at the minute. John smit out of shape style





I completely disagree. And you can be sure Fla or every other Hooker in the world has had more than one bad day. And what makes you think Cronins throwing is any better?

I have seen Best have more than one bad day with his throwing. In fact
there have been numerous for Ulster as well. I remember one day in
Musgrave Park. Perhaps you didn't see the games.

I am sure others on here can confirm them.

[Benji]

Par Redden When was the last time their were no Munster lads in the Back Line? Cant remember when there was as few on the team.

[tickettout]

4 games, everyone will get a chance.


Looking forward to the Boks game especially- real chance to beat them as they are down some key guys and playing very poorly.

[Combatlogo]

True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.



And MOD won't?smileys/lol.gif

[tickettout]

True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.



And MOD won't?smileys/lol.gif





Shouldn't you be over on 2postsaday.com consoling Danthezulu and the ladyz?


Kidney did this, Kidney did thatsmileys/lol.gif

[The Spoofer]

Maybe EOS learned his conservatism frim Kidney.

[inglorious]

True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.



And MOD won't?smileys/lol.gif Wombats bitterness.

[Combatlogo]

True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.



And MOD won't?smileys/lol.gif





Shouldn't you be over on 2postsaday.com consoling Danthezulu and the ladyz?


Kidney did this, Kidney did thatsmileys/lol.gif





If I wasn't here Tw*tty, your pathetic little life would have no meaning, raving on about Junior Cert Maths.


I do notice you're always impeccably well-behaved on LF though Tw*tty, whih is quite interesting.

[Tobyglen]

True, Toner would be destroyed by Botha.
It's still a conservative selection all the same but Kidney as always knows bestsmileys/wink.gif.



And MOD won't?smileys/lol.gif





Shouldn't you be over on 2postsaday.com consoling Danthezulu and the ladyz?


Kidney did this, Kidney did thatsmileys/lol.gif





If I wasn't here Tw*tty, your pathetic little life would have no meaning, raving on about Junior Cert Maths.


I do notice you're always impeccably well-behaved on LF though Tw*tty, whih is quite interesting.
He's after giving you some winding up, you sound like a ten year after 10 cans of coke, pull yourself together man!

[Combatlogo]

Jaysus, you're as deluded as Tw*tty if you think he winds me up! Yeah, Junior Cert Maths Grinds...smileys/lol.gif...up there with Oscar Wilde, WC Fields and Groucho Marx.

[skinnyryan]

A huge opportunity for Tony Buckley


Barry Coughlan
THE composition of Ireland’s team to meet South Africa in the first international rugby game of Lansdowne Road era on Saturday was fairly predictable, although there will be some rumblings at the absence of iconic prop forward John Hayes from the panel.
However, once Declan Kidney explained the thinking behind selecting Tom Court on the bench the issue became less of a talking point. Court has played three games at loose head and three at tight head for Ulster this season; in a squad of 22 that only allows for one prop forward replacement there was really no argument.
Meanwhile Kidney and others will have breathed a big sigh of relief that talisman and captain Brian O’Driscoll has recovered from a hamstring injury to lead the side.
With Gordon D’Arcy to win his 50th cap and line out alongside him it offers a positive attacking option for Ireland . Indeed, the back line, save for Jonathan Sexton’s selection ahead of Ronan O’Gara and Luke Fitzgerald getting the nod ahead of either Keith Earls or Andrew Trimble, didn’t offer any huge talking point.
The good news for Kidney is that Earls has come through a mini injury crisis and just needs to prove his fitness in the next couple of days; that would probably be enough to see him set for a place on the bench ahead of Paddy Wallace and Trimble.
Kidney and others will look upon Sexton’s availability as a bonus. It might hurt O’Gara that he won’t start what would be his 100th international but he really can’t complain. His gripe might be that he is the senior man and has played at a high intensity more often than Sexton, who is not long back from injury.
The coach, and even the public, will see it more positively and that’s that there are two high quality players to carry Ireland through into the World Cup next year. Competition is the lifeblood of rugby and both players are being kept sharp by the competition.
Although Cian Healy has been somewhat peripheral in Leinster, Kidney obviously thinks he is still good enough to do a job for Ireland and this game represents a huge opportunity for Tony Buckley to win more supporters after a very productive 12 months.
Mick O’Driscoll was the obvious choice to fill the second row vacancy created by the loss through injury of Paul O’Connell.
He won his first cap in 2001 and this will be his 20th – it hasn’t been a huge reward for a quality player that stamped his class with a huge contribution to Munster ’s Heineken Cup victory over Toulon.
Stephen Ferris, David Wallace and Jamie Heaslip in the back row? Not unexpected, but Ferris and Heaslip will have noted that Denis Leamy is back in the mix and on the bench.
That should keep them both awake on Saturday, with Leamy not fussy were he to be called on as a six or eight.

[dropkick]

Very conservative selection from Kidney and that also
means there'll be few surprises in the world cup squad. Not
unexpected though.

Best is a solid player who has had very few bad days for
Ireland. He's not as good a thrower as Flannery but who is?

Some people think Varley should be ahead of Best. On
what evidence? He struggles to throw the ball in straight so
let him prove himself with Munster before he plays for
Ireland.

I hope the scrums hold too. I'd have putting Court in there
and have Healy as an impact sub.

SOB is unlucky too not to be in the squad but David
Wallace is a proven world class backrower and Leamy has
played well this season.

[The Outlaw]

I Hope for Kidneys sake we win . Because if we dont after that selection andafter losing 5 in a row - questions will have to be asked.


I dont even think the most dyed in the wool Munster fan could explain SOB's omission from the 22. No basis for Fitzgerald or Ryan to be in the 22. Not much point in dragging it out. Some of the players in the 22 would want to show some form quick because they havent been showing it for their provinces


Think we've given SA half a chance myself. Hopefully the infighting is as bad as its supposed to be and we'll get over the line.

[The Outlaw]

Very conservative selection from Kidney and that also
means there'll be few surprises in the world cup squad. Not
unexpected though.

Best is a solid player who has had very few bad days for
Ireland. He's not as good a thrower as Flannery but who is?

Some people think Varley should be ahead of Best. On
what evidence? He struggles to throw the ball in straight so
let him prove himself with Munster before he plays for
Ireland.

I hope the scrums hold too. I'd have putting Court in there
and have Healy as an impact sub.

SOB is unlucky too not to be in the squad but David
Wallace is a proven world class backrower and Leamy has
played well this season.


Lemay hasnt played better then SOB. In fact none of the backrow selected have. Ferris can consider himself very lucky.

[Combatlogo]

Outlaw, Fitz has been one of our best players this season...the only starter who could hold his head up after the Embra debacle and excellent againsnt the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's s**te kicking as well as Racing.To suggest an Earls who is carrying an injury should be ahead of him is nuts.

[The Outlaw]

Outlaw, Fitz has been one of our best players this season...the only starter who could hold his head up after the Embra debacle and excellent againsnt the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's s**te kicking as well as Racing.To suggest an Earls who is carrying an injury should be ahead of him is nuts.


Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-existent.

[Combatlogo]

Outlaw, Fitz has been one of our best players this season...the only starter who could hold his head up after the Embra debacle and excellent againsnt the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's s**te kicking as well as Racing.To suggest an Earls who is carrying an injury should be ahead of him is nuts.


Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-existent.








You clearly haven't watched the games...or do you just have your undergarments twisted because Fionn Carr is nowhere near the squad?

[Luimneach]

I Hope for Kidneys sake we win . Because if we dont after that selection andafter losing 5 in a row - questions will have to be asked.
There are quite a few posters here who in the unlikely event of IRFU changing their mind -would want to see him return to Munster.

[JoeyFantastic]

Outlaw, Fitz
has been one of our best players this season...the only
starter who could hold his head up after the Embra debacle
and excellent againsnt the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's
s**te kicking as well as Racing.To suggest an Earls who is
carrying an injury should be ahead of him is nuts.



Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-
existent.


*

You base too much of your thinking around stats, or at
least, the wrong stats.

[mr chips]

Ireland have been boosted by the return of several key players for Saturday's November Test opener against South Africa at Aviva Stadium</span>.



Date: Saturday, November 6
Venue: Aviva Stadium</span>
Kick-off: 17:30 GMT




By far the biggest issue surrounding this announcement is how the highlighted bits made it through the swear filter without being changed to Lansdowne Road. Boo-urns!

On the hooker debate, hopefully Cronin will get some meaningful gametime. I would also hope to see Varley given a decent opportunity at some stage over the series - I reckon he's superior to Best in terms of dynamism around the field and ball carrying, while being only slightly better in terms of his lineout throwing for now, but with better still to come in that regard. However, sewa's point is valid - Best has plenty of international experience and has plenty of leadership ability as well.

[Brian9848]

That Irish front five might be destroyed. We'll struggle at lineout time - don't see MOD offering anything against Matfield.

It's the most conservative selection that DK could possibly have made; I mean I doubt even he considered selecting ROG at 10.

Wallace has done little to deserve a starting spot over an on-fire SOB, and D'Arcy hasnt been too sharp at 12 at times while BOD just doesnt have the pace any longer to play 13 at test level, but Kidney is not the coach to grandly innovate or try new things. It just seems that it's back to what has worked well for Ireland when he has enjoyed success.

[Call999]

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[Call999]

How the hell did that happen!

[Speycaster]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.

[davidos]

I am hugely disappointed with that selection. Why did he pick
the Munster lads at all. Does he not know we want a Heineken
Cup. Can't afford any more injuries.

[The Outlaw]

Outlaw, Fitz
has been one of our best players this season...the only
starter who could hold his head up after the Embra debacle
and excellent againsnt the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's
s**te kicking as well as Racing.To suggest an Earls who is
carrying an injury should be ahead of him is nuts.




Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-
existent.








You base too much of your thinking around stats, or at
least, the wrong stats.


I dont I simply judge rugby players on their jobs. For wingers thats scoring tries.Look atthe stats for international wingers and compare Fitzgeralds


He doesnt score enough tries. 2 tries in 13 games. Both against Italy. Thats a strike rate of 1 every6 and a halfgames roughly.


James O Connor- 9 tries - 24 tests - a try every 2 and a half games


Tommy Bowe- 15 tries - 35 tests - the same as the above


Shane Williams - 53 tries in 77 tests


Keith Earls - 6 tries in 10 Tests


Julien Malzieu- 5 tries in 16 tests





I could go on and on. Saying a winger


doesn't score tries is like having a striker who doesnt score goals. He's an international centre - never a winger in my view.


Not a good selection and definitely 100% not a form selection.

[The Outlaw]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.








We cant afford to lose on Saturday. If we cant beat them when they only have half a team when are we going to beat them? We're not suddenly going to turn around in 12 months and beat a top 3 side with their full whack. Thats the stuff of fantasy.

[Speycaster]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.








We cant afford to lose on Saturday. If we cant beat them when they only have half a team when are we going to beat them? We're not suddenly going to turn around in 12 months and beat a top 3 side with their full whack. Thats the stuff of fantasy.





To bring you're argument to its logical conclusion........You are suggesting that it's more important to beat them now rather than next year? Is this Eddie??


FFSsmileys/sad.gif

[The Outlaw]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.








We cant afford to lose on Saturday. If we cant beat them when they only have half a team when are we going to beat them? We're not suddenly going to turn around in 12 months and beat a top 3 side with their full whack. Thats the stuff of fantasy.





To bring you're argument to its logical conclusion........You are suggesting that it's more important to beat them now rather than next year? Is this Eddie??


FFSsmileys/sad.gif





Simply that England have proven you start beating them 12 months out. then you might beat in the WC. Dont let the fact that Eddie got his preparation badly wrong blind you from the harsh realities of trying to beat the top 3 in a World Cup situation.


The idea that Ireland are suddenly going to turn around in the dressing room in 12 months and believe they are going to beat a side they rarely ever beat without prior recent history of doing so is Alice in Wonderland stuff.

[Brian9848]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.


You can't have it both ways.

How "rude in health" is the front 5? How brilliant a squad development is it that MOD is now the starting 'middle of the lineout' option in the absence of an oft-injured POC? Back to the future...

DK's selection is disappointing, and suggests the same old thing running up to the upcoming 6N and WC.

[Speycaster]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.








We cant afford to lose on Saturday. If we cant beat them when they only have half a team when are we going to beat them? We're not suddenly going to turn around in 12 months and beat a top 3 side with their full whack. Thats the stuff of fantasy.





To bring you're argument to its logical conclusion........You are suggesting that it's more important to beat them now rather than next year? Is this Eddie??


FFSsmileys/sad.gif





Simply that England have proven you start beating them 12 months out. then you might beat in the WC. Dont let the fact that Eddie got his preparation badly wrong blind you from the harsh realities of trying to beat the top 3 in a World Cup situation.


The idea that Ireland are suddenly going to turn around in the dressing room in 12 months and believe they are going to beat a side they rarely ever beat without prior recent history of doing so is Alice in Wonderland stuff.





I am completely at a lossas to how you interpreted that I was suggesting we should let SA win on Saturday from my initial post?


And by the way, we have beaten SA at home on the last occassions, one of those was before the last WC, for all the bloody good that did.


Again, I was merely trying to suggest that it is my belief that Kidney and his management team will use this series to best prepare a squad for the next WC.In other words, to havethe squad prepared to make the best possible assault on the competition.


It wasnt just Eddies preparation that let us down in 2007, it was the fact that he would start the same XV in every game unless they needed a limb amputated. Kidney seems to be morefocused on having a group of 30+ players ready and personally I believe that suits our needs better.

[The Outlaw]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.








We cant afford to lose on Saturday. If we cant beat them when they only have half a team when are we going to beat them? We're not suddenly going to turn around in 12 months and beat a top 3 side with their full whack. Thats the stuff of fantasy.





To bring you're argument to its logical conclusion........You are suggesting that it's more important to beat them now rather than next year? Is this Eddie??


FFSsmileys/sad.gif





Simply that England have proven you start beating them 12 months out. then you might beat in the WC. Dont let the fact that Eddie got his preparation badly wrong blind you from the harsh realities of trying to beat the top 3 in a World Cup situation.


The idea that Ireland are suddenly going to turn around in the dressing room in 12 months and believe they are going to beat a side they rarely ever beat without prior recent history of doing so is Alice in Wonderland stuff.





I am completely at a lossas to how you interpreted that I was suggesting we should let SA win on Saturday from my initial post?


And by the way, we have beaten SA at home on the last occassions, one of those was before the last WC, for all the bloody good that did.


Again, I was merely trying to suggest that it is my belief that Kidney and his management team will use this series to best prepare a squad for the next WC.In other words, to havethe squad prepared to make the best possible assault on the competition.


It wasnt just Eddies preparation that let us down in 2007, it was the fact that he would start the same XV in every game unless they needed a limb amputated. Kidney seems to be morefocused on having a group of 30+ players ready and personally I believe that suits our needs better.





Without a track record of beating these teams over the next 12 months prior to the tournament I cant see it. We'll see how we go but why hasnt he picked the form selections then?


He's picked some players completely out of form. Its only last week that Nagle was seen as a better future option then Ryan. Ferris is fortunate. Ross omitted when playing the best rugby of his career. Fitzgerald hasnt had a good season thus far. Best not to talk about O Brien</

[Speycaster]

Way too much hysteria on this thread. Has it occured to anyone that Kidney is using these 4 games as a dry run for the WC Pool? 5 teams involved, a decent sized squad and a chance not just for the players, but also the entire management team to iron out any kinks within a compressed timeframe.


I bet Kidney has earmarked 3 wins, which would in essence mean qualification if this was the WC Pool. Gone are the days of thrashing XV players for 4 consecutive matches within 3 weeks, that will get us nowhere. I can see why he would not have SOB on the bench, likewise I can see why SOB may well start against the AB's.


This is as much an exercise in squad management and player motivation as anything else. It is an ideal opportunity to get the entire squad conditioned for the intensity they will be facing.


By the way, I have never seen such discussion and so many alternative players being mentioned on this forum.............Perhaps Deccie could be given some credit for putting time into squad development?


Bottom line is we are in rude health when you look at our backrow options: Ferris, Muldoon, Wally, SOB, Heaslip &amp; Leamy...........But hey, let's s**t on half of them to justify our own personal favourites. Between now and the end of the WC,we may need to use everyone of that talented bunch.


I like Kidney's approach and that of his lieutenants, he has constantly demonstrated an ability to learn from his errors and indeed those of his predecessor,The fact that he's being compared by some to Eddie is truly laughable.




You can't have it both ways.

How "rude in health" is the front 5? How brilliant a squad development is it that MOD is now the starting 'middle of the lineout' option in the absence of an oft-injured POC? Back to the future...

DK's selection is disappointing, and suggests the same old thing running up to the upcoming 6N and WC.




Your argument is only valid if the same 22 players are used in all 4 matches.


"Brilliant squad Development" your words mate, not mine. Please revert back to my use of the word hysteria.

[Speycaster]

[QUOTE=The Outlaw





Without a track record of beating these teams over the next 12 months prior to the tournament I cant see it. We'll see how we go but why hasnt he picked the form selections then?


He's picked some players completely out of form. Its only last week that Nagle was seen as a better future option then Ryan. Ferris is fortunate. Ross omitted when playing the best rugby of his career. Fitzgerald hasnt had a good season thus far. Best not to talk about O Brien


If what you're saying is true- why hasnt he gone with form? What are we going to learn about Sean O Brien when he plays Samoa?





That is fair comment Outlaw, but where do you go from there? In other words if every selection from 1 to 15 was based on form alone, would you continue with the same XV for all 4 games?


The problem with that is we continue down the road of praying that we avoid injury, I believe we should move beyond that.


Your comment regarding Ross is also valid, however with Buckley and Healy starting, Ross simply is not a bench option. I'm sure many coaches wish they could have 2 props on the bench for International games and if that were the case, Court may not have made the bench at all.

[The Outlaw]

[QUOTE=The Outlaw





Without a track record of beating these teams over the next 12 months prior to the tournament I cant see it. We'll see how we go but why hasnt he picked the form selections then?


He's picked some players completely out of form. Its only last week that Nagle was seen as a better future option then Ryan. Ferris is fortunate. Ross omitted when playing the best rugby of his career. Fitzgerald hasnt had a good season thus far. Best not to talk about O Brien


If what you're saying is true- why hasnt he gone with form? What are we going to learn about Sean O Brien when he plays Samoa?





That is fair comment Outlaw, but where do you go from there? In other words if every selection from 1 to 15 was based on form alone, would you continue with the same XV for all 4 games?


The problem with that is we continue down the road of praying that we avoid injury, I believe we should move beyond that.


Your comment regarding Ross is also valid, however with Buckley and Healy starting, Ross simply is not a bench option. I'm sure many coaches wish they could have 2 props on the bench for International games and if that were the case, Court may not have made the bench at all.





I'd have had o brien on the bench. you have to reward current form. O Brien must be wondering what he has to do. I dont have a problem with MOD but again Toner's form is miles better then Ryan's even if Ryan is a better player. Ryan hasnt performed at all this season.


Not sure about Court. He's either very good or just been lucky. Cant figure out which.

[lactose intolerant]

where's nagle?

[davidos]

Where is Conway?

[RichardP]

Over and over again on this and other forums latent talent gets mistaken for overt talent. Likewise the craving for potential to be given the chance is cravenly put forth as a 'must' or else it's a 'disgrace', 'shocking', 'ridiculous'. In the same vein proven performers are denigrated as past it, useless, not needed, nothing to prove, shows the coach is too conservative etcetera. Then we have the 'It doesn't matter if we win, it's more important to develop the talent, get rid of the chaff, give youth its head, move forward, results now don't count it's results next year that count' brigade on their rants too. I think we all have a similar goal in mind - to see Ireland do well and win big competitions, but since when did beating ANY Springboks side become so unimportant that the likes of Ross, Cronin, Toner, SOB, Wallace (P), Keatley, Carr and Aunt Matilda should be tried ahead of proven performers?


We can argue merits of Cullen v MOD and Hayes v ANOther but who seriously thinks that Declan Kidney is going to go through this series with the same starting XV or XXII squad barring injuries? Really, who thinks that?


The Coach has a job to do and his employers expect results too, so he has to balance squad development with the results to satisfy the paymaster and I'm inclined to think he knows better than I do - his results so far indicate he knows better than most. Additionally he has a first rate coaching staff and I'd be more than astounded if they don't have significant input into selections, along with a few senior players, including the Captain. This is NOT Eddie O'Sullivan - someone else can actually drive the team bus!


I agree with Speycaster WRT the use of this series like a mini-RWC Pool simulation and I'll bet anyone here there will be a better prepared Irish squad going into the 6N and the RWC next year than there was 4 years ago - this despite the fact the survivors of that fiasco are all four years older.


The 5-in-a-row loss quoters conveniently ignore the fact that in two or three of those games Ireland were missing a heap of players but still EVERYONE got a game in the SH tour. How novel is that in the Irish camp. We went to a World Cup and could have saved a ton of money by bringing 17 players; we went on SH tours with 30+ of whom only 16 were used and we went to Argentina with a 2nds and 3rds but only used the seconds. Now we're b***hing because 4th and 5thchoices aren't being picked against South Africa?


Ross supporters are suddenly demanding he be picked ahead of Hayes - have a look at Hayes (and Munster's) scrummaging this year..it's seriously improved - and scrummaging is less of an issue than lineouts, but I digress. I am confident that Kidney will utilize his resources well and if he pulls an Eddie on it I'll be among the first to cry foul.

[Brian9848]

DK is now calling upon an aging MOD to front up against the likes of Matfield and secure decent first phase ball. It should not have come to this at all. MOD, with all his heart and experience, show be nowhere near any Irish WC 22.

At least 2 of the front 5 wouldn't make the ANY top 7 Rugby Nation's WC starting 22.

As conservative as DK is, he is selecting a tight 5 that will really struggle to live with any top tier nation at the set-piece. It's very disappointing.

[The Outlaw]

Over and over again on this and other forums latent talent gets mistaken for overt talent. Likewise the craving for potential to be given the chance is cravenly put forth as a 'must' or else it's a 'disgrace', 'shocking', 'ridiculous'. In the same vein proven performers are denigrated as past it, useless, not needed, nothing to prove, shows the coach is too conservative etcetera. Then we have the 'It doesn't matter if we win, it's more important to develop the talent, get rid of the chaff, give youth its head, move forward, results now don't count it's results next year that count' brigade on their rants too. I think we all have a similar goal in mind - to see ireland do well and win big competitions but since when did beating ANY Springboks side become so unimportant that the likes of Ross, Croning, Toner, SOB, Wallace (P), Keatley, Carr and Aunt Matilda should be tried ahead of proven performers?


We can argue merits of Cullen v MOD and Hayes v ANOther but who seriously thinks that Declan Kidney is going to go through this series with the same starting XV or XXII squad barring injuries? Really, who thinks that?


The Coach has a job to do and his employers expect results too, so he has to balance squad development with the results to satisfy the paymaster and I'm inclined to think he knows better than I do - his results so far indicate he knows better than most. Additionally he has a first rate coaching staff and I'd be more than astounded if they don't have significant input into selections, along with a few senior players, including the Captain. This is NOT Eddie O'Sullivan - someone else can actually drive the team bus!


I agree with Speycaster WRT the use of this series like a mini-RWC Pool simulation and i'll bet anyone here thre will be a better prepared irish squad going into the 6N and the RWC next year than there was 4 years ago - this despite the fact the survivors of that fiasco are all four years older.


The 5-in-a-row loss quoters conveniently ignore the fact that in two or three of those games Ireland were missing a heap of players but still EVERYONE got a game in the SH tour. How novel is that in the Irish camp. We went to a World Cup and could have saved a ton of money by bringing 17 players; we went on SH tours with 30+ of whom only 16 were used and we went to Argentina with a 2nds and 3rds but only used the seconds. Now we're b***hing because 4th and 5thchoices aren't being picked against South Africa?


Ross supporters are suddenly demanding he be picked ahead of Hayes - have a look at Hayes (and Munster's) scrummaging this year..it's seriously improved - and scrummaging is less of an issue than lineouts, but I digress. I am confident that Kidney will utilize his resources well and if he pulls an Eddie on it I'll be among the first to cry foul.





Hayes isnt a serious option in 12 months. End of.


Hed probably admit that himself

[dropkick]

Outlaw, Fitz has been one of our
best players this season...the only starter who could hold
his head up after the Embra debacle and excellent againsnt
the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's s**te kicking as well as
Racing.To suggest an Earls who is carrying an injury should
be ahead of him is nuts.


Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-
existent.


*


You base too much of your thinking around
stats, or at least, the wrong stats.


I dont I simply judge rugby players on their jobs. For
wingers thats scoring tries.*Look at*the stats for
international wingers and compare Fitzgeralds


He doesnt score enough tries. 2 tries in 13 games. Both
against Italy. Thats a strike rate of 1 every*6 and a
half*games roughly.


James O Connor-* 9 tries - 24 tests - a try every 2 and
a half games


Tommy Bowe- 15 tries - 35 tests - the same as the
above


Shane Williams - 53 tries in 77 tests


Keith Earls - 6 tries in 10 Tests


Julien Malzieu- 5 tries in 16 tests


*


I could go on and on. Saying a winger


doesn't score tries is like having a striker who doesnt
score goals. He's an international centre - never a winger
in my view.


Not a good selection and definitely 100% not a form
selection.


*

I agree too that Fitz isn't a top class winger.

I think he could potentially be a top class center though. He
has everything needed to play there and has a good
offload, step, defense etc.

[The Outlaw]

Outlaw, Fitz has been one of our
best players this season...the only starter who could hold
his head up after the Embra debacle and excellent againsnt
the Liiiggginnds, lapping up TOL's s**te kicking as well as
Racing.To suggest an Earls who is carrying an injury should
be ahead of him is nuts.



Fitz is zero from 8 combat. his current form is non-
existent.







You base too much of your thinking around
stats, or at least, the wrong stats.



I dont I simply judge rugby players on their jobs. For
wingers thats scoring tries.Look atthe stats for
international wingers and compare Fitzgeralds



He doesnt score enough tries. 2 tries in 13 games. Both
against Italy. Thats a strike rate of 1 every6 and a
halfgames roughly.



James O Connor- 9 tries - 24 tests - a try every 2 and
a half games



Tommy Bowe- 15 tries - 35 tests - the same as the
above



Shane Williams - 53 tries in 77 tests



Keith Earls - 6 tries in 10 Tests



Julien Malzieu- 5 tries in 16 tests







I could go on and on. Saying a winger



doesn't score tries is like having a striker who doesnt
score goals. He's an international centre - never a winger
in my view.



Not a good selection and definitely 100% not a form
selection.








I agree too that Fitz isn't a top class winger.

I think he could potentially be a top class center though. He
has everything needed to play there and has a good
offload, step, defense etc.


Totally agree with that. Could bea world class centre in my view.

[bellmop]

Rory Best is another lucky to be in the
22 let alone starting.* I would have gone for Varley to start
personally.* I would have Court, Varley and SOB in for
Healy, Best and Wallace.* Wally is starting
correctly imo, he has played very few games this season
and has been outstanding, probably our best forward. The
guy reeks of class and will be needed if we are to beat SA
or AB's.Best is a very strange one though, This surely
means Cronin will move next season because he's playing
much better than Best but can't hold down a starting place.

Cronin may need to move to south africa then the ulsters
might give him a big money deal

[RichardP]

And you could add Gordon D'Arcy6 tries in 49 games; I wonder whether that causes any angst among his supporters? This isn't a wind up at all but David Wallace has twice as many in only 15 more games;Marcus Horan has the same number (and he's a prop!). I just wonder whether that is an indicator of how stiflingly regimented Irish back play was under EOS or is D'Arcy just not that s**t hot?

[Experimental]

Poor ole D'Arcy just always seems to get denied a millimeter before the try line. In fairness tho, he's a great man for getting a break and making good ground. I really don't think 6 tries is a reflection on the work hes actually done, i think hes just been a bit unlucky with the tries...smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[mr chips]

DK is now calling upon an aging MOD


Mick O Driscoll DOB 8/10/78
Brian O Driscoll DOB 21/1/79

Three months of difference. I'm sure you'll agree therefore that BOD had better hang up them oul boots, shur the studs is nearly worn off them altogether.

[Hugonaut]

DK is now calling upon an aging MOD


Mick O Driscoll DOB 8/10/78
Brian O Driscoll DOB 21/1/79

Three months of difference. I'm sure you'll agree therefore that BOD had better hang up them oul boots, shur the studs is nearly worn off them altogether.



And in fairness, Micko is clearly in great form for Munster – if you ask me [a recent convert to the Micko camp, having never been a fan of his for the guts of a decade], he's in the best form of his career.

Kidney clearly doesn't think that Leo is up to a game against the uber-physical South Africans so soon after a long injury lay-off, as he's not even on the bench. I personally believe that he has shown a little more at international level than Micko, but if he's not up for consideration, so be it.

Donnacha Ryan on the bench surprises the hell out of me, I have to say. He's been poor in the big matches he has played this season [vs Leinster, vs Toulon] and won't be able to compete at 4 in the lineout against Matfield's athleticism or 2 against Bakkies' physicality. His worth as a blindside at international level is negligible, especially when Kidney has gone with Leamy on the bench beside him. I guess his face just fits.

[sewa]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggestdecision here was at 10 where DK decided to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope that he will come good.To give him the best chance possible he went with a 9 whohe is used to playing with. Neither are form selections but they were picked to develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.

[bosh12]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggestdecision here was at 10 where DK decided to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope that he will come good.To give him the best chance possible he went with a 9 whohe is used to playing with. Neither are form selections but they were picked to develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.





smileys/smiley37.gif

[Aussiedub]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggestdecision here was at 10 where DK decided to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope that he will come good.To give him the best chance possible he went with a 9 whohe is used to playing with. Neither are form selections but they were picked to develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.





Maybe he just wants to give Wallace a chance to perform without having to be a babysitter for an outhalf who can't tackle!!


Your definition of form is obviously strange.

[Aussiedub]

Over and over again on this and other forums latent talent gets mistaken for overt talent. Likewise the craving for potential to be given the chance is cravenly put forth as a 'must' or else it's a 'disgrace', 'shocking', 'ridiculous'. In the same vein proven performers are denigrated as past it, useless, not needed, nothing to prove, shows the coach is too conservative etcetera. Then we have the 'It doesn't matter if we win, it's more important to develop the talent, get rid of the chaff, give youth its head, move forward, results now don't count it's results next year that count' brigade on their rants too. I think we all have a similar goal in mind - to see Ireland do well and win big competitions, but since when did beating ANY Springboks side become so unimportant that the likes of Ross, Cronin, Toner, SOB, Wallace (P), Keatley, Carr and Aunt Matilda should be tried ahead of proven performers?


We can argue merits of Cullen v MOD and Hayes v ANOther but who seriously thinks that Declan Kidney is going to go through this series with the same starting XV or XXII squad barring injuries? Really, who thinks that?


The Coach has a job to do and his employers expect results too, so he has to balance squad development with the results to satisfy the paymaster and I'm inclined to think he knows better than I do - his results so far indicate he knows better than most. Additionally he has a first rate coaching staff and I'd be more than astounded if they don't have significant input into selections, along with a few senior players, including the Captain. This is NOT Eddie O'Sullivan - someone else can actually drive the team bus!


I agree with Speycaster WRT the use of this series like a mini-RWC Pool simulation and I'll bet anyone here there will be a better prepared Irish squad going into the 6N and the RWC next year than there was 4 years ago - this despite the fact the survivors of that fiasco are all four years older.


The 5-in-a-row loss quoters conveniently ignore the fact that in two or three of those games Ireland were missing a heap of players but still EVERYONE got a game in the SH tour. How novel is that in the Irish camp. We went to a World Cup and could have saved a ton of money by bringing 17 players; we went on SH tours with 30+ of whom only 16 were used and we went to Argentina with a 2nds and 3rds but only used the seconds. Now we're b***hing because 4th and 5thchoices aren't being picked against South Africa?


Ross supporters are suddenly demanding he be picked ahead of Hayes - have a look at Hayes (and Munster's) scrummaging this year..it's seriously improved - and scrummaging is less of an issue than lineouts, but I digress. I am confident that Kidney will utilize his resources well and if he pulls an Eddie on it I'll be among the first to cry foul.





Latent talent getting mistaken for overt talent....We have guys who are in better form and who have consistently beaten the overt talent time and time again and yet aren't supposed to be good enough. They have outplayed guys they are competing against for places in the team but still don't get picked. Are we just to assume that guys who used to have a place will keep it no matter what??


Leinster pack has consistenly coped without any problems against Munster pack and come out on top in the backrow time and time again and yet they shouldn't be in the Irish team as they aren't good enough.....they have been more successful over last 2 years than Munster and won more big games so what is supposed to be done then????

[Benji]

Alot of Crap alright. Wouldnt say it was the biggest decision
on the 10 slot. For god sake man move on the king ain't dead
but his been replaced. Sexton parr injury and bad form is
Irish no 1 Imho. Rog is a great man to have on the bench and
to play some games. They both have different things they
bring to the game.

[jeepers]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggestdecision here was at 10 where DK decided to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope that he will come good.To give him the best chance possible he went with a 9 whohe is used to playing with. Neither are form selections but they were picked to develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.





Maybe he just wants to give Wallace a chance to perform without having to be a babysitter for an outhalf who can't tackle!!


Your definition of form is obviously strange.

I'd say Wallace would prefer to have an outhalf who can give the forwards decent field position than have to spend most of his time defending in his own 22.

[Benji]

Out of all the decisions in team selection, I dont think there
is any question about the no 10 slot.
People on here love Rog and rightly so for what he has
done for Munster. But Sexton brings more to the table as
regards Running tackling. Moving forward I'd hope that is
something that Ireland can build on. His not in the same
grade as Rog with his kicking out of hand but his damn
good and improving.

People crying for years that we had no alternative to Rog,
Now Sexton is here and people cant see his class. Sexton
has earned his place in the team and IMHO he is going to
be world class come the world cup. So I've said it yes he
has all the attributes to be world class. Ireland need more
from its 10 and he can give that.

[Thomond78]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on
here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was
highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggest*decision here was at 10 where DK decided
to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope
that he will come good.*To give him the best chance
possible he went with a 9 who*he is used to playing with.
Neither are form selections but they were picked to
develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.
**

But the thing to remember is; when DK gives you every
opportunity to show you're right, even after being on poor
form, by surrounding you with your provincial mates - well,
if you don't perform, then you're marked for the
shepherd's crook.

We know that's how he works; we've seen if before. And if
Sixmissed kicks at international level as is his wont, well...

[jeepers]

Over and over again on this and other forums latent talent gets mistaken for overt talent. Likewise the craving for potential to be given the chance is cravenly put forth as a 'must' or else it's a 'disgrace', 'shocking', 'ridiculous'. In the same vein proven performers are denigrated as past it, useless, not needed, nothing to prove, shows the coach is too conservative etcetera. Then we have the 'It doesn't matter if we win, it's more important to develop the talent, get rid of the chaff, give youth its head, move forward, results now don't count it's results next year that count' brigade on their rants too. I think we all have a similar goal in mind - to see Ireland do well and win big competitions, but since when did beating ANY Springboks side become so unimportant that the likes of Ross, Cronin, Toner, SOB, Wallace (P), Keatley, Carr and Aunt Matilda should be tried ahead of proven performers?


We can argue merits of Cullen v MOD and Hayes v ANOther but who seriously thinks that Declan Kidney is going to go through this series with the same starting XV or XXII squad barring injuries? Really, who thinks that?


The Coach has a job to do and his employers expect results too, so he has to balance squad development with the results to satisfy the paymaster and I'm inclined to think he knows better than I do - his results so far indicate he knows better than most. Additionally he has a first rate coaching staff and I'd be more than astounded if they don't have significant input into selections, along with a few senior players, including the Captain. This is NOT Eddie O'Sullivan - someone else can actually drive the team bus!


I agree with Speycaster WRT the use of this series like a mini-RWC Pool simulation and I'll bet anyone here there will be a better prepared Irish squad going into the 6N and the RWC next year than there was 4 years ago - this despite the fact the survivors of that fiasco are all four years older.


The 5-in-a-row loss quoters conveniently ignore the fact that in two or three of those games Ireland were missing a heap of players but still EVERYONE got a game in the SH tour. How novel is that in the Irish camp. We went to a World Cup and could have saved a ton of money by bringing 17 players; we went on SH tours with 30+ of whom only 16 were used and we went to Argentina with a 2nds and 3rds but only used the seconds. Now we're b***hing because 4th and 5thchoices aren't being picked against South Africa?


Ross supporters are suddenly demanding he be picked ahead of Hayes - have a look at Hayes (and Munster's) scrummaging this year..it's seriously improved - and scrummaging is less of an issue than lineouts, but I digress. I am confident that Kidney will utilize his resources well and if he pulls an Eddie on it I'll be among the first to cry foul.





Latent talent getting mistaken for overt talent....We have guys who are in better form and who have consistently beaten the overt talent time and time again and yet aren't supposed to be good enough. They have outplayed guys they are competing against for places in the team but still don't get picked. Are we just to assume that guys who used to have a place will keep it no matter what??


Leinster pack has consistenly coped without any problems against Munster pack and come out on top in the backrow time and time again and yet they shouldn't be in the Irish team as they aren't good enough.....they have been more successful over last 2 years than Munster and won more big games so what is supposed to be done then????

Would that be a Leinster pack with Ollie le Roux, Stan Wright, CJ, Nathin Hines and Rocky Elsom in it?

What has O'Brien won?

[bosh12]

Jeepers, I didnt see Ollie Le Roux, CJ, Stan or Rocky in it when they p*ssed all over us earlier this year.

[sewa]

Winning with a single late try at home is pissing all over us?

[wally74]

The number 10 arguments we have are hilarious to every fan I talk to from outside Ireland. Every international team worth its saltshould havea choice of two quality outhalves





Sctoland: Paterson and Parks


Wales: Preistland and jones


England: Flood and Wilko( could hvae a 3rd if chips had a bit of cope on)





For years we hadRog, who is outstanding and no other outhalf with close to his level of talent after humphs retired. We finally have two decent options at 10 and now instead being grateful we spend our time fighting about it.


Regarding Micko, no brainer for start considering cullen not being fully back and Pauls injury, Toner should have taken ryans bench spot though.

[sewa]

For years we hadRog, who is outstanding and no other outhalf with close to his level of talent after humphs retired. We finally have two decent options at 10 and now instead being grateful we spend our time fighting about it. Who is fighting about it? I think yourself and Benji should read the posts

[bosh12]

Winning with a single late try at home is pissing all over us?


If you think are pack has matched the Leinster pack over the last 4 games, your dilusional.

[sewa]

Winning with a single late try at home is pissing all over us?


If you think <S&#079;NG>are </S&#079;NG>pack has matched the Leinster pack over the last 4 games, your <S&#079;NG>dilusional</S&#079;NG>.


Who said anything about the last four games? You said last game singular.


P.s. I like the frothing at the mouth smileys/lol.gif

[Aussiedub]

Truly staggering the amount of crap on here although TT's piss take of poor ould Combat was highly entertainingsmileys/lol.gif.


The biggestdecision here was at 10 where DK decided to give the young fella a run despite his form in the hope that he will come good.To give him the best chance possible he went with a 9 whohe is used to playing with. Neither are form selections but they were picked to develop the squad. Conservative selection me eyeball.





So remind me of the games this season when we've spent all our time in the 22 defending????


Munster last 25 mins? No


Racing Metro? No


Saracens? No


Connaught? No


Maybe he just wants to give Wallace a chance to perform without having to be a babysitter for an outhalf who can't tackle!!


Your definition of form is obviously strange.

I'd say Wallace would prefer to have an outhalf who can give the forwards decent field position than have to spend most of his time defending in his own 22.

[Benji]

For years we had*Rog, who is outstanding and no other
outhalf with close to his level of talent after humphs retired.
We finally have two decent options at 10 and now instead
being grateful we spend our time fighting about it.
Who is fighting about it? I think yourself and Benji
should read the posts

My thing is can we not talk about the positives of having
Sexton / Rog without mud slinging at the either players. I've
been clear in the past about Rog's downfalls but he is what he
is and his not going to change his game now.

[Benji]

Winning with a single late try at home is
pissing all over us?


If you think &lt;SONG&gt;are &lt;/SONG&gt;pack has
matched the Leinster pack over the last 4 games, your
&lt;SONG&gt;dilusional&lt;/SONG&gt;.


Who said anything about the last four games?
You said last game singular.


P.s. I like the frothing at the mouth smileys/lol.gif

Sewa, Ya one try but it was a good one. Did ye look like
scoring a try that day? No really ! Again smileys/biggrin.gif