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View Full Version : Mick O’Driscoll/Varley/Hurley- An Apology



Jackdaniels
18th-October-2010, 12:52
Boy I got it wrong!! I said Varley Hurley and Micko were not HC standard.


Well, I take it all back, gladly hold my hands up and say I was as wrong as is humanly possible! All three were outstanding and Micko, one missed tackle aside, was a credit to the shirt and a collossus. His best game for Munster in Europe by a mile. Hurley was solid throughout and that hit was just awesome. And Varleys darts were Barney-esqe and as always his play in the loose was top drawer. All three were MOTM candidates. although for all that, I would have given MOTM to Dougie as I thought it was his best game in a red shirt since 08.


But for doubting the 3 above, and for annoying many here in the process, I gladly and humbly apologise. I will NEVER do it again!!

galinka
18th-October-2010, 12:54
I mentioned it here last week - what they need most is regular game time - not an old 15 minutes when the game is won.


Micko has been our best lineout option this season - in my view Varley is now our no. 1 hooker.

LondonMunster
18th-October-2010, 12:56
Fair play for holding your hand up.

Random_punter
18th-October-2010, 13:00
Fair play JD.

Captain-Hero
18th-October-2010, 13:08
Did you hear what Micko said when he received the man of the match and heard it was from Frankie?


Pretty funny. He said something like, ah sure, it doesn't carry the same weight if it comes from Frankie. Thought it was funny.

dropkick
18th-October-2010, 13:15
Lets not get carried away here. Varley has had some bad
games in the lineout so the jury is still out on him and Micko
has not turned into POC overnight.

Hurley was never as bad on the wing as some people made
out.

2nd58
18th-October-2010, 14:28
Lets not get carried away here. Varley has had some bad
games in the lineout so the jury is still out on him and Micko
has not turned into POC overnight.

Hurley was never as bad on the wing as some people made
out.


Varley is doing just fine for a guy who was deemed not good enough for the Munster Academy. He's raw and tough....just the way we like them.....

Red
18th-October-2010, 14:28
Boy I got it wrong!! I said Varley Hurley and Micko were not HC standard.


Well, I take it all back, gladly hold my hands up and say I was as wrong as is humanly possible! All three were outstanding and Micko, one missed tackle aside, was a credit to the shirt and a collossus. His best game for Munster in Europe by a mile. Hurley was solid throughout and that hit was just awesome. And Varleys darts were Barney-esqe and as always his play in the loose was top drawer. All three were MOTM candidates. although for all that, I would have given MOTM to Dougie as I thought it was his best game in a red shirt since 08.


But for doubting the 3 above, and for annoying many here in the process, I gladly and humbly apologise. I will NEVER do it again!!








Its ok, you are new to the game.

flynn's Ghost
18th-October-2010, 15:01
the lads had a good game, but we need consistancy. that's something we have not seen from the team for a while and that is reflected in changing views from some on here.

on a side note, i havent seen dougie so focused as he was this week for a hell of a long time. he kinda looked scarysmileys/shock.gif

Charco
18th-October-2010, 15:30
Did you hear what Micko said
when he received the man of the match and heard it was from
Frankie?


Pretty funny. He said something like, ah sure, it doesn't
carry the same weight if it comes from Frankie. Thought it was
funny.

Heard that myself smileys/biggrin.gif

18th-October-2010, 17:35
fair play to you for holding your hand up - sign of character

ustix
18th-October-2010, 17:37
It was great to see Mr. Hurley play so assuredly, particularly when burying an unfortunate off loader from Toulon.

Waterfordlad
18th-October-2010, 21:52
Fair play JD - you were not the only one on here doubting the lads (and won't be the last I'm sure!!)

OhGreatOne
18th-October-2010, 23:02
Did you hear what Micko said
when he received the man of the match and heard it was from
Frankie?



Pretty funny. He said something like, ah sure, it doesn't
carry the same weight if it comes from Frankie. Thought it was
funny.




Heard that myself smileys/biggrin.gif


Sure Frankie just needed a lift home to Corksmileys/wink.gif


Well done. Not a world beater but, as always, an honest performance. Nice photo on the home page. I think a photo of his teammates "celebrating" his accomplishments with the water bottles would be better though...

Jackdaniels
19th-October-2010, 06:25
Boy I got it wrong!! I said Varley Hurley and Micko were not HC standard.


Well, I take it all back, gladly hold my hands up and say I was as wrong as is humanly possible! All three were outstanding and Micko, one missed tackle aside, was a credit to the shirt and a collossus. His best game for Munster in Europe by a mile. Hurley was solid throughout and that hit was just awesome. And Varleys darts were Barney-esqe and as always his play in the loose was top drawer. All three were MOTM candidates. although for all that, I would have given MOTM to Dougie as I thought it was his best game in a red shirt since 08.


But for doubting the 3 above, and for annoying many here in the process, I gladly and humbly apologise. I will NEVER do it again!!








Its ok, you are new to the game.








Says the man with 5 posts smileys/lol.gif


Dougie was absolutely unbelievable. If Johne had used the head and slid over we would have been lauding one of THE great HC tries. The intensity on Dougies face as mentioned earlier was almost scary! MOD/Warwick/Mushy and the water bottle was hilarious, and when Sky showed it, Mushy winking at the fans, with the crowd yards away encouraging them and laughing, and Micko telling them to feck off, it summed up everything positive about Munster and their relationship with the fans. Pride!

Piquet
19th-October-2010, 06:31
ton a side note, i havent seen dougie
so focused as he was this week for a hell of a long time. he
kinda looked scarysmileys/shock.gif


You obviously didn't see his try saving tackle v Treviso last
year with a pulled Hammer when we were ten nil down.

Benji
19th-October-2010, 06:33
Great games by all three. Given regular games and improvement Varley and Cronin could be 1 & 2 for the world cup.


Howlett had a great game. Its been a while since he got so much ball and looked so sharp.


Micko-- Great performance and I didnt think he had it in him. Always great lineout operator but hands and ball carrying have let him down in the past. His capable but he needs to do this everygame.

Late try
19th-October-2010, 07:32
ton a side note, i havent seen dougie
so focused as he was this week for a hell of a long time. he
kinda looked scarysmileys/shock.gif


You obviously didn't see his try saving tackle v Treviso last
year with a pulled Hammer when we were ten nil down.





Well remembered by all who saw it. We were at the east terrace as he went by at pace. That spoke volumesabout the man.

Jorm
19th-October-2010, 07:45
Big of you to admit you were wrong?


Not really, better to have kept the mouth shut when you clearly didnt know what you were on about. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of fellas like you on here cock sure they know there stuff and making daft sweeping statements like guys not being up to HEC level. I have no problem with critiscisms of players but keep it specific to their performances, vague comments like yours were misguided and an insult to the players involved.


As for Micko, how many times have fellas said he was ML level at best? Did nobody watch the game against Australia in the summer where he was the best Irish forward on the pitch? Most of this site wanted Donnacha Ryan ahead of him the last 12 months despite DR playing one decent game ever in a red jersey against the all blacks. People say he cant carry but ive never seen Paul O'Connell score a try like he did at the weekend, people say he's not physical enough buttheguy never drops below double figures in the tackle stakes and he hits an enormous amout of rucks every game. Outside of Paul O'Connell he is also by far our best lineout option at munster. Mickp has been nothing short of outsanding for us the last 18 months but it still feels like he has something to prove to a few fools on here.

sewa
19th-October-2010, 07:52
I like the way you contradicted your own point about commenting on players by saying DR is effectively crap. Where are we getting theseNoobs smileys/lol.gif

Red
19th-October-2010, 07:54
Boy I got it wrong!! I said Varley Hurley and Micko were not HC standard.


Well, I take it all back, gladly hold my hands up and say I was as wrong as is humanly possible! All three were outstanding and Micko, one missed tackle aside, was a credit to the shirt and a collossus. His best game for Munster in Europe by a mile. Hurley was solid throughout and that hit was just awesome. And Varleys darts were Barney-esqe and as always his play in the loose was top drawer. All three were MOTM candidates. although for all that, I would have given MOTM to Dougie as I thought it was his best game in a red shirt since 08.


But for doubting the 3 above, and for annoying many here in the process, I gladly and humbly apologise. I will NEVER do it again!!








Its ok, you are new to the game.








Says the man with 5 posts smileys/lol.gif


Dougie was absolutely unbelievable. If Johne had used the head and slid over we would have been lauding one of THE great HC tries. The intensity on Dougies face as mentioned earlier was almost scary! MOD/Warwick/Mushy and the water bottle was hilarious, and when Sky showed it, Mushy winking at the fans, with the crowd yards away encouraging them and laughing, and Micko telling them to feck off, it summed up everything positive about Munster and their relationship with the fans. Pride!





Are you suggesting there is a direct correlation between the amount of posts sombody has put up and their knowledge or experience of playing rugby?





My comment was based on your lack of knowledge of Munster rugby


Verley is a fine player, both Micko and Hurley have performed with distinction


for Munster in the HC before.


Go back to bed

busbi
19th-October-2010, 08:05
Red,


Take a leaf out of Jack's book and start a thread on every single rugby related thought that comes into your head and watch your knowledge of Munster Rugby fly through the roof smileys/lol.gif

Munsterexile
19th-October-2010, 08:07
man enough to hold your hands up- fair play

Jorm
19th-October-2010, 08:14
I like the way you contradicted your own point about commenting on players by saying DR is effectively crap. Where are we getting theseNoobs smileys/lol.gif





Contradicted myself? Not at all. I never said donnacha ryan wasnt up to it, just that he's never really excelled in a munster jersey outside of the All Blacks game - something he'd probably admnit himself. I was more emphasising the fans ability to overlook excellent players in favour of guys that have never really proven themselves. Somethging mick has done in spades.


Just because i havent posted here for long doesnt mean i havent been reading here a long time - long enough to know you are a armchair fan of the highest order.

Cowboy
19th-October-2010, 08:37
I like the way you contradicted your own point about
commenting on players by saying DR is effectively crap.
Where are we getting these*Noobs smileys/lol.gif**





Contradicted myself? Not at all. I never said donnacha
ryan wasnt up to it, just that he's never really excelled in a
munster jersey outside of the All Blacks game - something
he'd probably admnit himself. I was more emphasising the
fans ability to overlook excellent players in favour of guys
that have never really proven themselves. Somethging mick
has done in spades.


Just because i havent posted here for long doesnt mean
i havent been reading here a long time - long enough to
know you are a armchair fan of the highest
order.


Am I correct in remembering DR getting man of the match
against newport in cork some years ago (might actually be
that game Carney did the crazy sprint up the middle of the
field) and going on to tell the world how proud Mammy was
going to be of him in the post match interview? He's had a
spate of injuries over the last few years and is far from
written off.

sewa
19th-October-2010, 08:42
I like the way you contradicted your own point about commenting on players by saying DR is effectively crap. Where are we getting theseNoobs smileys/lol.gif





Contradicted myself? Not at all. I never said donnacha ryan wasnt up to it, just that he's never really excelled in a munster jersey outside of the All Blacks game - something he'd probably admnit himself. I was more emphasising the fans ability to overlook excellent players in favour of guys that have never really proven themselves. Somethging mick has done in spades.


Just because i havent posted here for long doesnt mean i havent been reading here a long time - long enough to know you are a armchair fan of the highest order. I very much doubt it's something he'd admit as its not true. He hasexcelled only once inaboutseventygames for Munster? I'd wonder how many games you watch.

upandout
19th-October-2010, 08:42
I like the way you contradicted your own point about commenting on players by saying DR is effectively crap. Where are we getting theseNoobs smileys/lol.gif





Contradicted myself? Not at all. I never said donnacha ryan wasnt up to it, just that he's never really excelled in a munster jersey outside of the All Blacks game - something he'd probably admnit himself. I was more emphasising the fans ability to overlook excellent players in favour of guys that have never really proven themselves. Somethging mick has done in spades.


Just because i havent posted here for long doesnt mean i havent been reading here a long time - long enough to know you are a armchair fan of the highest order.

You said DR has only played one decent game ever, which and forgive me if im wrong is exactly the sort of sweeping statement you condemned in your earlier post. Mind you the general crux of your earlier post was that posters should not post rather than criticise; which to my mind would be a little silly as this place would be bereft of posts if we were all holding our criticisms back

sewa
19th-October-2010, 08:46
It has got to be Danthezulu on a wind up. Nobody else would post such contradictory nonsense

Tobyglen
19th-October-2010, 09:00
Big of you to admit you were wrong?


Not really, better to have kept the mouth shut when you clearly didnt know what you were on about. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of fellas like you on here cock sure they know there stuff and making daft sweeping statements</span> like guys not being up to HEC level. I have no problem with critiscisms of players but keep it specific to their performances, vague comments like yours were misguided and an insult to the players involved.


As for Micko, how many times have fellas said he was ML level at best? Did nobody watch the game against Australia in the summer where he was the best Irish forward on the pitch? Most of this site wanted Donnacha Ryan ahead of him the last 12 months despite DR playing one decent game ever in a red jersey against the all blacks</span>. People say he cant carry but ive never seen Paul O'Connell score a try like he did at the weekend, people say he's not physical enough buttheguy never drops below double figures in the tackle stakes and he hits an enormous amout of rucks every game. Outside of Paul O'Connell he is also by far our best lineout option at munster. Mickp has been nothing short of outsanding for us the last 18 months but it still feels like he has something to prove to a few fools on here.
No hope for you, this country is full of idiots.

Jackdaniels
19th-October-2010, 10:45
Jorm reminds me of a younger Jackdaniels smileys/wink.gif


Let me hear that wwuuummm...babyy..that wum wum wum wum wum....!!

Jorm
19th-October-2010, 11:03
Sorry guys never saw Donnacha Ryan live up to the hype that has been spouted on here, he has always been a fourth choice second row for munster in my mind and never done anything to deserve being included ahead of guys like DOC, POC and MOD. He had one massive standout game against the All Blacks where he looked potentially world class but despite a few decent performances over the years has come nowhere near the level of performance we would have hoped after the All Blacks game. Whether you want to blame it on injuries or lack of chances or playing in weakened teams is irrelevant - it just hasnt happened to the guy yet even with the run of games he just got in the side recently. He is by no means written off and will get his chance again but people need to reign in their enthusiasm for the guy a bit based on the odd cameo or highlight - we genuinely missed Micko when he didnt play the last few games.


If people are looking to make light of their tough day in work or on the couch by putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3 by all means get yer knickers in a twist be my guest!

Jackdaniels
19th-October-2010, 11:16
Jorm:


"Sorry <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] never saw Donnacha Ryan live up to the hype that has been spouted on here, he has always been a fourth choice second row for Munster inmy mind and never done anything to deserve being included ahead of <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] like DOC, POC and MOD. He had one massive standout game against the All Blacks where he looked potentially world class but despite a few decent performances over the years has come nowhere near the level of performance we would have hoped after the All Blacks game. Whether you want to blame it on injuries or lack of chances or playing in weakened teams is irrelevant - it just hasnt happened to the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy [/B]yet even with the run of games he just got in the side recently. He is by no means written off and will get his chance again but people need to reign in their enthusiasm for the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy[/B] a bit based on the odd cameo or highlight - we genuinely missed Micko when he didnt play the last few games


If people are looking to make light of their tough day in work or on the couch by putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3 by all means get yer knickers in a twist be my guest"





Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert!!!

dropkick
19th-October-2010, 14:27
DR is a better player than MOD in my opinion. Munster are not
getting the best out of DR because of the tactics they're using
this season. Its similar to the way they're not getting the best
out of Howlett.

Kidney has picked DR in the Irish squad so hopefully he'll get
a few games.

Jorm
19th-October-2010, 15:02
DR is a better player than MOD in my opinion. Munster are not
getting the best out of DR because of the tactics they're using
this season. Its similar to the way they're not getting the best
out of Howlett.

Kidney has picked DR in the Irish squad so hopefully he'll get
a few games.




That is complete nonsense. We are talking about a second row here, not a winger where the coaches tactics can have a serious effect on how much ball a player sees. In Donnacha Ryans case he got to do all his "jobs" in the last few games. He competed for lineout ball (his own and oppositions), he had the opportunity to make tackles, hit rucks and carry the ball, all things a second row does.


So how exactly are the coaches tactics impeding him? What exactly can he not do thatdoesnt bring the best out of him yet still allows two world class second rows (O'Callaghan and O'Connell) to shine? Daft post in my opinion. Its pretty obvious that Donnacha Ryan just didnt take his chances when he got him and every time Micko plays he takes his.

sewa
19th-October-2010, 15:22
So to sum up DR has only ever had one good game and Micko is always good. Are you Mickos missus?

sledger2003
19th-October-2010, 15:29
Dougie was absolutely unbelievable. If Johne had used the head and slid over we would have been lauding one of THE great HC tries. The intensity on Dougies face as mentioned earlier was almost scary! MOD/Warwick/Mushy and the water bottle was hilarious, and when Sky showed it, Mushy winking at the fans, with the crowd yards away encouraging them and laughing, and Micko telling them to feck off, it summed up everything positive about Munster and their relationship with the fans. Pride! [/QUOTE]

Here's hoping that he isnt seeing this as his last season here .. and wanting to go out with a bang.
He has been really excellent this season.. and if he decides to stay again next year then I for one will be ecstatic.

dropkick
19th-October-2010, 17:03
DR is a better player
than MOD in my opinion. Munster are not getting the best
out of DR because of the tactics they're using this season.
Its similar to the way they're not getting the best out of
Howlett. Kidney has picked DR in the Irish squad so
hopefully he'll get a few games.


<s&#111;ng>That is complete nonsense. We are talking about a
second row here, not a winger where the coaches tactics
can have a serious effect on how much ball a player
sees.</s&#111;ng> In Donnacha Ryans case he got to do all his
"jobs" in the last few games. He competed for lineout ball
(his own and oppositions), he had the opportunity to make
tackles, hit rucks and carry the ball, all things a second row
does.


So how exactly are the coaches tactics impeding him?
What exactly can he not do that*doesnt bring the best out
of him yet still allows two world class second rows
(O'Callaghan and O'Connell) to shine? Daft post in my
opinion. Its pretty obvious that Donnacha Ryan just didnt
take his chances when he got him and every time Micko
plays he takes his.*

The reason Munster were not playing well was because the
forwards were not being used properly. They kept throwing
the ball straight to the backs so how could the forwards get
involved? Leinster and London Irish spread their defense
across the field because they knew Munster would just
throw it wide. Its the same reason why Howlett never gets
the ball in space!

Against LI Donnacha Ryan was no worse than DOC or
Varley in terms of the lineout. Against Toulon Varley threw
better and Quinnie came in to help in the lineout. Also,
London irish have one of the best lineouts in Europe and
are miles better than Toulon at it.

No need to make DR a scapegoat for the London Irish
match. He was better than given credit for.

BigLad
19th-October-2010, 17:07
how about an apology for dougie whos speed was compared to that of 90 year old man up to recentlysmileys/biggrin.gif

BigLad
19th-October-2010, 17:11
right lads who do we all have a go at now ?smileys/biggrin.gif, TOL prob in for it lol

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 05:08
So to sum up DR has only ever had one good game and Micko is always good. Are you Mickos missus?


No to sum up, i think you are an absolute tool of the highest order who has nothing to contribute to this thread besides winding people up and ruining what is an informed debate.

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 05:35
The reason Munster were not playing well was because the
forwards were not being used properly. They kept throwing
the ball straight to the backs so how could the forwards get
involved? Leinster and London Irish spread their defense
across the field because they knew Munster would just
throw it wide. Its the same reason why Howlett never gets
the ball in space!

Against LI Donnacha Ryan was no worse than DOC or
Varley in terms of the lineout. Against Toulon Varley threw
better and Quinnie came in to help in the lineout. Also,
London irish have one of the best lineouts in Europe and
are miles better than Toulon at it.

<S&#079;NG><S&#079;NG>No need to make DR a scapegoat for the London Irish
match.</S&#079;NG></S&#079;NG> He was better than given credit for.


Youre putting words in my mouth here, i never said that. I merely pointed out that in the games he had he never really put his hand up to be kept in the team. He didnt really dominate the middle of the lineout because to be fair he's not a natural 4 jumper and excels at the front of the lineout.


None of the tactics you outlined explain his performances, a second rows main duties are to win lineouts, drive in scrums,hit rucks and make tackles, if he carries a few balls its a bonus. I didnt thinkhe was as visible as donners in the last few games and Micko was over the weekend doing the bread and butter stuff.


Im not singling him out, im merely saying for a guy thats as lauded as he is he really blew his chance to stake a claim in the team before POC comes back. I dont think anyone can argue he didnt make the most of his situation.

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 06:23
The reason Munster were not playing well was because the
forwards were not being used properly. They kept throwing
the ball straight to the backs so how could the forwards get
involved? Leinster and London Irish spread their defense
across the field because they knew Munster would just
throw it wide. Its the same reason why Howlett never gets
the ball in space!

Against LI Donnacha Ryan was no worse than DOC or
Varley in terms of the lineout. Against Toulon Varley threw
better and Quinnie came in to help in the lineout. Also,
London irish have one of the best lineouts in Europe and
are miles better than Toulon at it.

<S&#079;NG><S&#079;NG>No need to make DR a scapegoat for the London Irish
match.</S&#079;NG></S&#079;NG> He was better than given credit for.


Youre putting words in my mouth here, i never said that. I merely pointed out that in the games he had he never really put his hand up to be kept in the team. He didnt really dominate the middle of the lineout because to be fair he's not a natural 4 jumper and excels at the front of the lineout.


None of the tactics you outlined explain his performances, a second rows main duties are to win lineouts, drive in scrums,hit rucks and make tackles, if he carries a few balls its a bonus. I didnt thinkhe was as visible as donners in the last few games and Micko was over the weekend doing the bread and butter stuff.


Im not singling him out, im merely saying for a guy thats as lauded as he is he really blew his chance to stake a claim in the team before POC comes back. I dont think anyone can argue he didnt make the most of his situation.





No No Jorm, you are the tool!


Tool smileys/biggrin.gif

sewa
20th-October-2010, 06:41
So to sum up DR has only ever had one good game and Micko is always good. Are you Mickos missus?


No to sum up, i think you are an absolute tool of the highest order who has nothing to contribute to this thread besides winding people up and ruining what is an informed debate. Calling people a tool is what passes for an informed debate? smileys/lol.gif

McCloud
20th-October-2010, 07:26
Can you drop the name calling, thanks.

bazzyg
20th-October-2010, 07:55
DR has not had a decent run in the team in the 2nd row, most of his games have been in the back row, he is a better option in the long run than MOD who has great games every now and again, he missed the easy tackle for their opening try also, he had a great game after though.


Dougie is on a late push for the world cup.

upandout
20th-October-2010, 09:17
So to sum up DR has only ever had one good game and Micko is always good. Are you Mickos missus?


No to sum up, i think you are an absolute tool of the highest order who has nothing to contribute to this thread besides winding people up and ruining what is an informed debate.

Oh the irony

Thorns
20th-October-2010, 09:23
Jorm:


"Sorry <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] never saw Donnacha Ryan live up to the hype that has been spouted on here, he has always been a fourth choice second row for Munster inmy mind and never done anything to deserve being included ahead of <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] like DOC, POC and MOD. He had one massive standout game against the All Blacks where he looked potentially world class but despite a few decent performances over the years has come nowhere near the level of performance we would have hoped after the All Blacks game. Whether you want to blame it on injuries or lack of chances or playing in weakened teams is irrelevant - it just hasnt happened to the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy [/B]yet even with the run of games he just got in the side recently. He is by no means written off and will get his chance again but people need to reign in their enthusiasm for the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy[/B] a bit based on the odd cameo or highlight - we genuinely missed Micko when he didnt play the last few games


If people are looking to make light of their tough day in work or on the couch by putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3 by all means get yer knickers in a twist be my guest"





Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert!!!





smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsurely it should be GOYS...i mean for fok sake get it roysh loike

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 09:25
Jorm:


"Sorry <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] never saw Donnacha Ryan live up to the hype that has been spouted on here, he has always been a fourth choice second row for Munster inmy mind and never done anything to deserve being included ahead of <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guys[/B] like DOC, POC and MOD. He had one massive standout game against the All Blacks where he looked potentially world class but despite a few decent performances over the years has come nowhere near the level of performance we would have hoped after the All Blacks game. Whether you want to blame it on injuries or lack of chances or playing in weakened teams is irrelevant - it just hasnt happened to the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy [/B]yet even with the run of games he just got in the side recently. He is by no means written off and will get his chance again but people need to reign in their enthusiasm for the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">guy[/B] a bit based on the odd cameo or highlight - we genuinely missed Micko when he didnt play the last few games


If people are looking to make light of their tough day in work or on the couch by putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3 by all means get yer knickers in a twist be my guest"





Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert!!!





smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsurely it should be GOYS...i mean for fok sake get it roysh loike





Its how he pronounces it, not spells it Thorns smileys/wink.gif I'd say we could hazard a guess!!

JoeyFantastic
20th-October-2010, 10:40
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 11:09
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.


Thanks Joey, i knew there was more to this site than the rubbish posted above this.


I think we all hope that Donnacha can raise his game after what personally for him must have been a disappointing last weeks - he got his run of games and it just didnt happenfor him. I think the worst part of it is that the guy has got a serious amount of raw talent that just hasnt come to fruition - itsnot a lack of ability that has seen him come up short for us so far. MOD has taken his chance everytime he's gotten it and fair play to him - i still think he is seriously underrated on here, probably by fellas who know little about second rows.

Thorns
20th-October-2010, 11:13
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.





+1 Im a big fan of both MOD &amp; DR but the simple fact is that so far this season MOD has been the better player so he keeps his place. Am I alone in the opinion that DR still looks very light and could do with some serious bulking in the off season. In the absense of O'Connell we also nead a battle hardened leader in the pack, thats not taking from leamy but If i was a young lad in the academy I'd be listening to micko when he speaks

handslikefeet
20th-October-2010, 11:32
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.





+1 Im a big fan of both MOD &amp; DR but the simple fact is that so far this season MOD has been the better player so he keeps his place. Am I alone in the opinion that DR still looks very light and could do with some serious bulking in the off season. In the absense of O'Connell we also nead a battle hardened leader in the pack, thats not taking from leamy but If i was a young lad in the academy I'd be listening to micko when he speaks





I'm with you on the issue of Micko's leadership - his experience is extremely valuable in O'Connell's absence. Also, from a purely tactical point of view, he's obviously the best lineout operator available, and if DOC is to be left to play the game at which he is best, then he needs a second row partner who can act as the cornerstone of the set piece so that he can go about doing his work, ie. being a general nuisance to anyone unlucky enough to come into contact with him.Mick fully deserves his place in the side at the moment.


Has to be said, however - and I read such an argument from more than one media commentator over the weeknd - that if we honestly believe that MOD has suddenly become a top-class ball carrying threat then we're getting waaaaaay ahead of ourselves. He was effective Saturday against a pack that were generally getting hammered from pillar to post - if you honestly think that the same will be true when we come up against the better packs in the tournament, you're only kidding yourself. He's no more than average in loose play, which is where Ryan's advantage lies. As a player equally adept to backrow - in my opinion anyway - he has mobility and dynamism which you wouldn't normally associate with a lock.


And that, I would think, explains what you perceive as a lack of bulk Thorns. In the first place, I wouldn't agree that he is exactly underweight for his job, but secondly, to bulk up would be to blunt one of the major weapons in his arsenal.

Thorns
20th-October-2010, 12:02
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.





+1 Im a big fan of both MOD &amp; DR but the simple fact is that so far this season MOD has been the better player so he keeps his place. Am I alone in the opinion that DR still looks very light and could do with some serious bulking in the off season. In the absense of O'Connell we also nead a battle hardened leader in the pack, thats not taking from leamy but If i was a young lad in the academy I'd be listening to micko when he speaks





I'm with you on the issue of Micko's leadership - his experience is extremely valuable in O'Connell's absence. Also, from a purely tactical point of view, he's obviously the best lineout operator available, and if DOC is to be left to play the game at which he is best, then he needs a second row partner who can act as the cornerstone of the set piece so that he can go about doing his work, ie. being a general nuisance to anyone unlucky enough to come into contact with him.Mick fully deserves his place in the side at the moment.


Has to be said, however - and I read such an argument from more than one media commentator over the weeknd - that if we honestly believe that MOD has suddenly become a top-class ball carrying threat then we're getting waaaaaay ahead of ourselves. He was effective Saturday against a pack that were generally getting hammered from pillar to post - if you honestly think that the same will be true when we come up against the better packs in the tournament, you're only kidding yourself. He's no more than average in loose play, which is where Ryan's advantage lies. As a player equally adept to backrow - in my opinion anyway - he has mobility and dynamism which you wouldn't normally associate with a lock.


And that, I would think, explains what you perceive as a lack of bulk Thorns. In the first place, I wouldn't agree that he is exactly underweight for his job, but secondly, to bulk up would be to blunt one of the major weapons in his arsenal.








crdeit to DR hes seriously agressive aswel..something irish rugby is lackin in areas. Id have him over toner anyday


Cant help but feel that O' Connells time off was DR's chance to shine but has he missed his opportunity this time round? Like I said before im a big fan of his btw

handslikefeet
20th-October-2010, 12:08
I can see Jorm's point, and I say that as a big fan of Ryan.

MOD like Coughlan, and even Galwey, clearly have an
leadership quality that it's hard to appreciate watching the
games if you start to break things into stats and trying to
make a empirical case for a "better player".

I was hoping Ryan would step up this season and keep MOD
on the bench but he didn't and MOD came in and is now
deservedly ahead of him.





+1 Im a big fan of both MOD &amp; DR but the simple fact is that so far this season MOD has been the better player so he keeps his place. Am I alone in the opinion that DR still looks very light and could do with some serious bulking in the off season. In the absense of O'Connell we also nead a battle hardened leader in the pack, thats not taking from leamy but If i was a young lad in the academy I'd be listening to micko when he speaks





I'm with you on the issue of Micko's leadership - his experience is extremely valuable in O'Connell's absence. Also, from a purely tactical point of view, he's obviously the best lineout operator available, and if DOC is to be left to play the game at which he is best, then he needs a second row partner who can act as the cornerstone of the set piece so that he can go about doing his work, ie. being a general nuisance to anyone unlucky enough to come into contact with him.Mick fully deserves his place in the side at the moment.


Has to be said, however - and I read such an argument from more than one media commentator over the weeknd - that if we honestly believe that MOD has suddenly become a top-class ball carrying threat then we're getting waaaaaay ahead of ourselves. He was effective Saturday against a pack that were generally getting hammered from pillar to post - if you honestly think that the same will be true when we come up against the better packs in the tournament, you're only kidding yourself. He's no more than average in loose play, which is where Ryan's advantage lies. As a player equally adept to backrow - in my opinion anyway - he has mobility and dynamism which you wouldn't normally associate with a lock.


And that, I would think, explains what you perceive as a lack of bulk Thorns. In the first place, I wouldn't agree that he is exactly underweight for his job, but secondly, to bulk up would be to blunt one of the major weapons in his arsenal.








crdeit to DR hes seriously agressive aswel..something irish rugby is lackin in areas. Id have him over toner anyday


Cant help but feel that O' Connells time off was DR's chance to shine but has he missed his opportunity this time round? Like I said before im a big fan of his btw





Definitely a chance to shine alright, but in many ways a partnership of DOC and DR was unlikely to be too effective - quite similar in their approach to the game. It may prove that DR is a more natural replacement/alternative for DOC, given that he would benefit similarly from a trusted sort of 'cornerstone' figure beside him, eg. Paulie or Micko

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 12:16
Jorms problem is that his point of view, while being as valid as everyone elses, has to be absolute fact!!And anyone who happens to dare to disagree with him then <S&#079;NG>obviously</S&#079;NG> just hasnt a clue about rugby, knows nothing about second rows and well, is of course..."a tool"...... cos he is right and you is wrong!!!

Thorns
20th-October-2010, 12:34
Jorms problem is that his point of view, while being as valid as everyone elses, has to be absolute fact!!And anyone who happens to dare to disagree with him then <S&#079;NG>obviously</S&#079;NG> just hasnt a clue about rugby, knows nothing about second rows and well, is of course..."a tool"...... cos he is right and you is wrong!!!


+1 too many know it all's and ive said it before, a whole lot of angeron here


most people dont know that an opinion is just that it cant be right or wrong..

JoeyFantastic
20th-October-2010, 12:44
most people dont know that an opinion is just that it cant
be right or wrong..

Not sure I'd go as far as that...

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 12:47
Jorms problem is that his point of view, while being as valid as everyone elses, has to be absolute fact!!And anyone who happens to dare to disagree with him then <S&#079;NG>obviously</S&#079;NG> just hasnt a clue about rugby, knows nothing about second rows and well, is of course..."a tool"...... cos he is right and you is wrong!!!


No Jorms problem was that you made some absolutely retarded and insulting commentsabout players based on nothing in another thread, whatever about discussing the merits of a players abilities you made stupid sweeping statements (i.e. players not HEC level) and ended up looking like an eejit when it was obvious to everyone that it was wrong. You should have kept the mouth shut and we wouldnt have a thread like this. My issue with Sewa is that he's a windup merchant plain and simple and had nothing to ad to the thread bar silly snide comments.


Anyway, a good point was made about our second rows ball carrying abilities. As well as Mick not being top class i think he is no worse than POC and DOC who when compared to the best locks out there are not at the races either. There are far more destructive locks in the loose out there than these guys and it is definitely something we could improve on with DR if he showed his potential.

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 12:58
Jorms problem is that his point of view, while being as valid as everyone elses, has to be absolute fact!!And anyone who happens to dare to disagree with him then <S&#079;NG>obviously</S&#079;NG> just hasnt a clue about rugby, knows nothing about second rows and well, is of course..."a tool"...... cos he is right and you is wrong!!!


No Jorms problem was that you made some absolutely retarded and insulting commentsabout players based on nothing in another thread, whatever about discussing the merits of a players abilities you made stupid sweeping statements (i.e. players not HEC level) and ended up looking like an eejit when it was obvious to everyone that it was wrong. You should have kept the mouth shut and we wouldnt have a thread like this. My issue with Sewa is that he's a windup merchant plain and simple and had nothing to ad to the thread bar silly snide comments.


Anyway, a good point was made about our second rows ball carrying abilities. As well as Mick not being top class i think he is no worse than POC and DOC who when compared to the best locks out there are not at the races either. There are far more destructive locks in the loose out there than these guys and it is definitely something we could improve on with DR if he showed his potential.








Point Proven. Good man yourself. Well done Jorm smileys/smile.gif

Munsterman2009
20th-October-2010, 13:02
I think the word retarded has no place on these forums,
surely??

McCloud
20th-October-2010, 13:05
I think the word retarded has no place on these forums,
surely??


I agree. Again I'll repeat STOP the name calling.


Thanks.

kahalui
20th-October-2010, 13:11
I think the word retarded has no place on these forums,
surely??


So the wordssenseless or irrational shouldnt be used either?'Retarded',has more than 1 connotation.

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 13:12
Only one person calling names here McCloud........

Benji
20th-October-2010, 13:13
Lads, What were we discussing again?

dropkick
20th-October-2010, 13:18
I'd like to see DR played ahead of DOC for a while to see how
he does. If the 2 of them are not a good pairing then how
about DR being giving a chance to play with better lineout
leaders.

JoeyFantastic
20th-October-2010, 13:24
Only one person calling names here
McCloud........

Are you trying to cosy up to teacher? The warning applies
across the board. If you want to discuss it further, pm a mod.

Hugonaut
20th-October-2010, 13:25
Definitely a chance to shine alright, but in many ways a partnership of DOC and DR was unlikely to be too effective - quite similar in their approach to the game. It may prove that DR is a more natural replacement/alternative for DOC, given that he would benefit similarly from a trusted sort of 'cornerstone' figure beside him, eg. Paulie or Micko

A very good point. Donnacha Ryan was put up in the middle against very, very good lineout operators in Kennedy and Toner, both of whom are considerably bigger than him [Kennedy 203cm, Toner 208cm], and both of whom made it very obvious that he can't jump in the middle of the lineout at that level.

Varley having an off day and Quinny being off the pitch didn't help the Munster lineout, nor him, one bit. DOC is probably even more limited a jumper than Ryan, so he was stuck at the front, his – and Ryan's</span> – natural position.

With that said, some of the other criticisms of Ryan should stick until he disproves them. And back on topic, Micko was deadly!

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 13:25
If i was Joey, I can assure you, I would at least have the class to bring an apple......

Wasp
20th-October-2010, 13:28
Jorm - clearly the team management rate Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short comings.

Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the ball during the Toulon match.
Quite often, he has poor ball retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying. I would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other matches.
He is quite passive in the tackle, he does not take the tackle or make it on his terms.
He is not a very mobile second row (combination of this and the point above is why Toulon scored their first try)
He is not effective at the breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.

Micko had a very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 13:28
http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


With Micko, Varley and Hurley in the team we are going nowhere http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/mad.gif









I think Micko is a ML player at best, Varley has brutal darts and Hurley is Dowling the lesser.









Mick is a soldier, a warrior, but for me, thats not enough. Not anymore. He is as i said a decent ML player, but thats it.









Point Proven. Good man yourself. Well done Jorm smileys/smile.gif





Point proven indeed Jackdaniels, maybe you should calm a little before posting in future.

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 13:30
Definitely a chance to shine alright, but in many ways a partnership of DOC and DR was unlikely to be too effective - quite similar in their approach to the game. It may prove that DR is a more natural replacement/alternative for DOC, given that he would benefit similarly from a trusted sort of 'cornerstone' figure beside him, eg. Paulie or Micko




A very good point. Donnacha Ryan was put up in the middle against very, very good lineout operators in Kennedy and Toner, both of whom are considerably bigger than him [Kennedy 203cm, Toner 208cm], and both of whom made it very obvious that he can't jump in the middle of the lineout at that level.

Varley having an off day and Quinny being off the pitch didn't help the Munster lineout, nor him, one bit. DOC is probably even more limited a jumper than Ryan, so he was stuck at the front, his – and Ryan's – natural position.

With that said, some of the other criticisms of Ryan should stick until he disproves them. And back on topic, Micko was deadly!



I made a few similar points regarding this at the beginning of the season Hugonaut when people were talking about having Donnacha Ryan in the team ahead of Micko and jumping at 4 in the lineout. He's a much more natural front of the line jumper and really only a viable replacement for DOC in my book.

Jackdaniels
20th-October-2010, 13:31
http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


With Micko, Varley and Hurley in the team we are going nowhere http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/mad.gif









I think Micko is a ML player at best, Varley has brutal darts and Hurley is Dowling the lesser.









Mick is a soldier, a warrior, but for me, thats not enough. Not anymore. He is as i said a decent ML player, but thats it.









Point Proven. Good man yourself. Well done Jorm smileys/smile.gif





Point proven indeed Jackdaniels, maybe you should calm a little before posting in future.








Jorm, I'll buy you a pint. What'll it be smileys/smile.gif

Benji
20th-October-2010, 13:32
Jorm - clearly the team management rate
Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short
comings. Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he
scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the
ball during the Toulon match.Quite often, he has poor ball
retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been
stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying. I
would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an
issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other
matches.He is quite passive in the tackle, he does not take
the tackle or make it on his terms.He is not a very mobile
second row (combination of this and the point above is why
Toulon scored their first try)He is not effective at the
breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.Micko had a
very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.



agree- Need to put a few performances against top
opposition.

Jorm
20th-October-2010, 13:35
Jorm - clearly the team management rate Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short comings.

Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the ball during the Toulon match.
Quite often, he has poor ball retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying. I would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other matches.
He is quite passive in the tackle, he does not take the tackle or make it on his terms.
He is not a very mobile second row (combination of this and the point above is why Toulon scored their first try)
He is not effective at the breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.

Micko had a very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.



In fairness i would quite agree with all of that Wasp, but only when comparing his contribution to the very best in the world, Matlock, Botha etc.


Incidentally I would say O'Connell suffers from the exact same flaws as the above bar the physicality in the tackle where he is very strong. Around the park carrying, etc. we have no real powerhouse second row in ireland.

Hugonaut
20th-October-2010, 13:37
I made a few similar points regarding this at the beginning of the season Hugonaut when people were talking about having Donnacha Ryan in the team ahead of Micko and jumping at 4 in the lineout. He's a much more natural front of the line jumper and really only a viable replacement for DOC in my book.

I think that there's a pretty recent body of evidence to agree with you, Jorm and I also think you're not the only person saying it. Beyond that though, Micko had a very good game around the park against Toulon – he was given a chance, and took it.

Donnacha Ryan could have made a stronger argument for his retention over Micko by having big games in Munster's two biggest games of the season [pre-Toulon]: Leinster and London Irish. He didn't. Those qualities that some people are praising him for – ferocity in the tight, hard running in the loose, big hitting around the fringes – weren't there. His dropping goes beyond not performing at 4 in the lineout, in my opinion</span>.

kahalui
20th-October-2010, 13:44
Jorm - clearly the team management rate Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short comings.

Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the ball during the Toulon match. Same could be said about POC.
Quite often, he has poor ball retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying.POC tends to lose the ball in contact more often than he should as well.I would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other matches.
He is quite passive in the tackle, -I agreehe does not take the tackle or make it on his terms. ???
He is not a very mobile second row (combination of this and the point above is why Toulon scored their first try) He's not the most agile of players, but I dont think mobilitywas the problem for that tackle. He simply made a balls of it.
He is not effective at the breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.

Micko had a very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.

Wasp
20th-October-2010, 13:44
Jorm - clearly the team management rate Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short comings.

Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the ball during the Toulon match.
Quite often, he has poor ball retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying. I would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other matches.
He is quite passive in the tackle, he does not take the tackle or make it on his terms.
He is not a very mobile second row (combination of this and the point above is why Toulon scored their first try)
He is not effective at the breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.

Micko had a very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.



In fairness i would quite agree with all of that Wasp, but only when comparing his contribution to the very best in the world, Matlock, Botha etc.


Incidentally I would say O'Connell suffers from the exact same flaws as the above bar the physicality in the tackle where he is very strong. Around the park carrying, etc. we have no real powerhouse second row in ireland.

I would say that his mobility is a bit better. I would definitey say that he is much more effective at the breakdown. In general, he covers the park a bit better than Micko. His retention of the ball in the tackle used to be good but he has had issues there more recently.

Agree that we do not have a secondrow who is a real ball carrier, but I wonder whether that is by design.....maybe mobility has been prioratised over it ....

Wasp
20th-October-2010, 13:52
Jorm - clearly the team management rate Micko, but that does not mean that he does not have short comings.

Areas where I believe that he has problems are:-
He is not an effective ball carrier, and despite the try he scored, rarely got over the gain line when he carried the ball during the Toulon match. Same could be said about POC. I would agree</span>
</font>Quite often, he has poor ball retention in contact, both at the lineout (where he has been stripped of the ball from time to time) and when carrying.POC tends to lose the ball in contact more often than he should as well.</font> A more recent issue with him that I hope has been sorted. Historically, was not an issue with him. If it hasn't been sorted,it will be a problem.</span> </font>I would readily agree that I cannot recall this having been an issue in the Toulon match but it has been in other matches.
He is quite passive in the tackle, -I agree</font>he does not take the tackle or make it on his terms. ??? Means he is not the dominant party in the tackle =&gt; he does not get to determine the physical positions that the 2 parties end up in after the tackle, very important for ball presentation, etc</span>
</font>He is not a very mobile second row (combination of this and the point above is why Toulon scored their first try) He's not the most agile of players, but </font>I dont think mobilitywas the problem for that tackle. He simply made a balls of it. I don't think he was close enough to Van Niekirk to make the tackle, unless his hands were a couple of feet longer!! Edit - you are correct, he made a horlicks of the tackle.</span>
</font>He is not effective at the breakdown in terms of competing for the ball.

</font>Micko had a very good day last Saturday, no more, no less.