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Jackdaniels
15th-October-2010, 13:13
What are peoples opinions on this lad. Will he make it? Does he need a move to get a game. Could he make the breakthrough this year? Or does the fact that many people in Ireland seem to think just cos he is black, and a winger......he must be lethal....actually work against him and give people unrealistic expectations?More innocentignorance than innocent racism really to be fair.


Is the A team as far as he will go with us?

Cervidave
15th-October-2010, 13:18
Why don't you give your own opinion or starters.

Jackdaniels
15th-October-2010, 13:22
Well ok, to be honest, Having seen a bit of him in action, both in green and red, I dont think the lad will make a serious international class winger or centre. He will be more of a Denis Hurley than a Denis Hickie. I hope I am wrong, I really do but he doesnt seem to have that magic step or kick on that the really top class wingers have. Will he be a regular Munster back for years to come....no


Could be make it as a decent Connacht/Premiership mid table club winger, yes.

JoeyFantastic
15th-October-2010, 13:24
Hmm straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be willing
to call them all racist, so they must be basing their opinion on
something else.

Cervidave
15th-October-2010, 13:26
It's very hard to say whether a player will make it big time until you've seen him playing at a top level but it's so far so good as far as I've seen.

Jackdaniels
15th-October-2010, 13:27
Hmm straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be willing
to call them all racist, so they must be basing their opinion on
something else.


Not what I meant Joey and I think you knwo that too. That was silly my friend.


What I meant was, there is a perception out there with the less informed but interested that basically "this lad sebo, he is a black winger, a youngfella, i'd say he is lethal quick.....sure arent they all quick"


You know what i meant Joey

Canterbury
15th-October-2010, 13:28
Hmm straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, <S&#079;NG>not sure I'd be willing
to call them all racist</S&#079;NG>, so they must be basing their opinion on
something else.


What has racism got to do with it?

JoeyFantastic
15th-October-2010, 13:34
Hmm
straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to play
in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be
willing to call them all racist, so they must be basing their
opinion on something else.


Not what I meant Joey and I think you knwo that too.
That was silly my friend.


What I meant was, there is a perception out there with
the less informed but interested that basically "this lad
sebo, he is a black winger, a youngfella, i'd say he is lethal
quick.....sure arent they all quick"


You know what i meant Joey

I did know what you meant, but the people giving him
games aren't the less informed, they get to see him every
day. Afaik, his father was a sprinter for France and his
sister is a sprinter for Ireland too. People don't think he's
fast because he's black, people think he's fast because he's
fast.

soccer rules
15th-October-2010, 13:37
Hmm straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be willing
to call them all racist, so they must be basing their opinion on
something else.


Not what I meant Joey and I think you knwo that too. That was silly my friend.


What I meant was, there is a perception out there with the less informed but interested that basically "this lad sebo, he is a black winger, a youngfella, i'd say he is lethal quick.....sure arent they all quick"


You know what i meant Joey so far you are the only one who seems a little racist

CarrigMan
15th-October-2010, 13:50
I don't care whether or not the guy is black, blue pink, or green. He's a young lad trying to make a career in an unforgiving profession.


The best of luck to him.


My observation is that he's not the best passer in the world. I base my oppinion on him as I've seen him play fa few times for Con, Ireland U20, and in a pre-season Munster match.


Give him a bit of coaching, build up his confidence and who knows?

JoeyFantastic
15th-October-2010, 13:54
My observation is that he's not the best passer in the
world.* I base my oppinion on him as I've seen him play fa
few times for Con, Ireland U20, and in a pre-season Munster
match.


*

It's odd he has started at 12 for Con in this year's AIL, afaik, I
agree that skills-wise he has a long way to go.

busbi
15th-October-2010, 14:00
For the love of god, why are people constantly bringing this guy up only
to knock him saying he's overrated? If he was a pasty ginger with the
exact same attributes people would probably be calling for him to be
drafted in this weekend.

He seems to be doing very well for himself. Not many Munster backs
are getting into Ireland back lines at any level these days. Hopefully
he'll continue to develop to be a first team winger in time.

TheBlueMovie
15th-October-2010, 14:02
Hmm straight into the Con team from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, <S&#079;NG>not sure I'd be willing
to call them all racist</S&#079;NG>, so they must be basing their opinion on
something else.


What has racism got to do with it?





Not really racism per se, more like positive racism. People started claiming he was the fastest U20 most likely because hes a wing and black when really it turns out that Conway, Griffin and O'Halloran were all faster than him. Personally I thought Darren Hudson completely outperformed him on the wing in rwc yet there was little to no hype about him. I don't know whether people meant to or not but Zebo definitely received extra attention because he was black (he was nowhere near a stand out in any of the U20 games). Colour really shouldn't come into it but I suppose at least it was positive racism.


Anyway, I don't think he'll become an international from watching him play but thats just my opinion and lots can change over a long time. Personally I think the likes of O'Mahony, Barnes and Deasy are better to be honest.

dropkick
15th-October-2010, 14:04
Theres only 2 wingers in the academy AFAIK. Munster have
been very poor bring through backs considering all the backs
Leinster have.

canine
15th-October-2010, 14:12
I thought Denis Hickie was a fairly decent winger ,always room for a player who has out and out pace

LLCOOLJ14
15th-October-2010, 14:14
[(he was nowhere near a stand out in any of the U20 games).


What crap. He's the only one who showed anything Vs Eng imo out of pretty much our entire team. Did you not see that game or what?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

dropkick
15th-October-2010, 14:17
[(he was
nowhere near a stand out in any of the U20 games).



What crap. He's the only one who showed anything Vs Eng
imo out of pretty much our entire team. Did you not see that
game or what?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

I think he ment the 6 nations.

TheBlueMovie
15th-October-2010, 14:17
[(he was nowhere near a stand out in any of the U20 games).


What crap. He's the only one who showed anything Vs Eng imo out of pretty much our entire team. Did you not see that game or what?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





He was the only player who showed anything that day but he was still wasnt exceptional, it just so happened that the rest of the team were so poor in comparison.


Personally I'd rate Barnes over him at the moment.

JoeyFantastic
15th-October-2010, 14:18
Hmm straight into the Con team
from school, iirc, seemed to play in most u20's matches for
Ireland this season, and pretty much straight into the
Munster A squad, while getting ML gametime as an u20
(something we rarely do). Seems he's rated by everyone
who's coached him, &lt;SONG&gt;not sure I'd be willing to call
them all racist&lt;/SONG&gt;, so they must be basing their
opinion on something else.


What has racism got to do with it?





Not really racism per se, more like positive racism.
People started claiming he was the fastest U20 most likely
because hes a wing and black when really it turns out that
Conway, Griffin and O'Halloran were all faster than him.
Personally I thought Darren Hudson completely
outperformed him on the wing in rwc yet there was little to
no hype about him. I don't know whether people meant to
or not but Zebo definitely received extra attention because
he was black (he was nowhere near a stand out in any of
the U20 games). Colour really shouldn't come into it but I
suppose at least it was positive racism.


Anyway, I don't think he'll become an international from
watching him play but thats just my opinion and lots can
change over a long time. Personally I think the likes of
O'Mahony, Barnes and Deasy are better to be
honest.

Possibly, Munster produce so few backs of any real note
that anyone who comes through to be able to hold a place
in the backs with Ireland is always going to stand out.
Hudson is an interesting one, he was good but will he go
anywhere for Leinster with the talent they have.

Hugonaut
15th-October-2010, 14:19
What crap. He's the only one who showed anything Vs Eng imo out of pretty much our entire team. Did you not see that game or what?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

Zebo was definitely our best player against England in the Junior World Cup. Carried very, very strongly and has an absolute mule of a kick. With that said, he was a lot quieter in the other matches, couldn't seem to get as involved. I think he's got a good bit of potential, I'd have to say ... nor are Munster blessed with wingers.

TheBlueMovie
15th-October-2010, 14:21
Hmm straight into the Con team
from school, iirc, seemed to play in most u20's matches for
Ireland this season, and pretty much straight into the
Munster A squad, while getting ML gametime as an u20
(something we rarely do). Seems he's rated by everyone
who's coached him, &lt;SONG&gt;not sure I'd be willing to call
them all racist&lt;/SONG&gt;, so they must be basing their
opinion on something else.



What has racism got to do with it?







Not really racism per se, more like positive racism.
People started claiming he was the fastest U20 most likely
because hes a wing and black when really it turns out that
Conway, Griffin and O'Halloran were all faster than him.
Personally I thought Darren Hudson completely
outperformed him on the wing in rwc yet there was little to
no hype about him. I don't know whether people meant to
or not but Zebo definitely received extra attention because
he was black (he was nowhere near a stand out in any of
the U20 games). Colour really shouldn't come into it but I
suppose at least it was positive racism.



Anyway, I don't think he'll become an international from
watching him play but thats just my opinion and lots can
change over a long time. Personally I think the likes of
O'Mahony, Barnes and Deasy are better to be
honest.




Possibly, Munster produce so few backs of any real note
that anyone who comes through to be able to hold a place
in the backs with Ireland is always going to stand out.
Hudson is an interesting one, he was good but will he go
anywhere for Leinster with the talent they have.





To be honest Ican't see Hudson going anywhere unless he moves and even then I can't see many of that U20 team making it. The winger spot in Leinster has fierce competition right now. You only have to look to Connacht with 2 Leinster men starting on their wing this weekend to see how fierce the competition is.


It's funny though, the age old truth, Leinster produce the backs, Munster produce the forwards is still in operation.

Balla Boy
15th-October-2010, 14:26
I hear he has great natural rhythm.

mr chips
15th-October-2010, 14:28
Glad most people aren't rising to the bait - AFAIR Jackdaniels is a tabloid journalist, and this faux-innocent attempt at tossing a grenade into the forum shows just how little class he and his ilk possess.

Anyway, back to the rugby ...

The Doc
15th-October-2010, 14:33
It's funny though, the age old truth, Leinster produce the backs, Munster produce the forwards is still in operation.


Really?

TheBlueMovie
15th-October-2010, 14:36
It's funny though, the age old truth, Leinster produce the backs, Munster produce the forwards is still in operation.


Really?





Well actually now that I think about it Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Kevin McLaughlin,Dominic Ryan, Rhys Ruddock are all being produced by Leinster and all bar Dominc Ryan have played for Ireland.


Munster are very much producing the second rows, scrumhalfs and hookers though!

Thomond78
15th-October-2010, 14:41
That's Rhys Ruddock from the Ospreys Academy, yes?

LuckyDucker
15th-October-2010, 14:51
Glad most people aren't rising to the bait - AFAIR Jackdaniels is a tabloid journalist, and this faux-innocent attempt at tossing a grenade into the forum shows just how little class he and his ilk possess.

Anyway, back to the rugby ...



Not even subtle, check the last five days alone smileys/lol.gif

http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/search.asp?KW=Jackdaniels&a (http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/search.asp?KW=Jackdaniels&amp;SM=1&amp;SI=AR&amp;FM=0&amp;OB=1) mp;SM=1&amp;SI=AR&amp;FM=0&amp;OB=1

15th-October-2010, 15:04
Hmm straight into the Con team
from school, iirc, seemed to
play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and
pretty
much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML
gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's
rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be
willing
to call them all racist, so they must be basing their opinion
on
something else.

From what I've seen at Ireland age level he's genuinely a
prospect not just a stereotype.

TheBlueMovie
15th-October-2010, 15:08
That's Rhys Ruddock from the Ospreys Academy, yes?


I was actually very careful to state "being produced" not "produced" because of that very point smileys/wink.gif


Ospreys had a role in Ruddock and now Leinster are also playing a role in his development

bosh12
15th-October-2010, 15:10
some serious kite flying going here

Quailman
16th-October-2010, 06:03
Hmm straight into the Con team

from school, iirc, seemed to

play in most u20's matches for Ireland this season, and

pretty

much straight into the Munster A squad, while getting ML

gametime as an u20 (something we rarely do). Seems he's

rated by everyone who's coached him, not sure I'd be

willing

to call them all racist, so they must be basing their opinion

on

something else.



From what I've seen at Ireland age level he's genuinely a

prospect not just a stereotype.

I'd agree with that, quick, very strong in contact, good offloading game and a massive boot. He has to work on his positional and defensive discipline and general skillset (he's been shocking under high balls whenever I've seen him), but he has the raw material to be a HEC level winger at least.

Tobyglen
28th-March-2011, 11:23
2 tries for Zebo against Marys on Saturday. He seems to be
improving a lot.

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 11:33
2 tries for Zebo against Marys on
Saturday. He seems to be
improving a lot.

Yeah, it was strange he wasn't added to the Amlin squad,
imo. Think we had space for one more player (or did Nagle
take up that space?)? He's still very raw but if we could get
him into the team and move Earls back into the centres
we'd have some real pace.

That being said, i can never work out how Con pick their
backs. Zebo played 12 for them at the start of the season,
then Dineen did, now Jouve is, with Dineen at 13. The most
obvious 12 is Deasy who never players there, what gives?
Tony or any other Con guys able to give some insight?

Tobyglen
28th-March-2011, 11:38
2 tries for
Zebo against Marys on
Saturday. He seems to be
improving a lot.

Yeah, it was strange he wasn't added to the Amlin squad,
imo. Think we had space for one more player (or did Nagle
take up that space?)? He's still very raw but if we could get
him into the team and move Earls back into the centres
we'd have some real pace.

That being said, i can never work out how Con pick their
backs. Zebo played 12 for them at the start of the season,
then Dineen did, now Jouve is, with Dineen at 13. The most
obvious 12 is Deasy who never players there, what gives?
Tony or any other Con guys able to give some insight?

I don't know, I can see Zebo going past Hurley, Murphy for
a wing spot next season. He's got decent gas.
Deasy would be a bit small for 12 imo.

Jones, Howlett, Earls, NIQ, Zebo, Keatley, Murray.

Would some serious gas in that team. Only 2 NIQ which
isn't bad.

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 11:49
I don't know, I can see Zebo going past Hurley, Murphy for
a wing spot next season. He's got decent gas.
Deasy would be a bit small for 12 imo.

Jones, Howlett, Earls, NIQ, Zebo, Keatley, Murray.

Would some serious gas in that team. Only 2 NIQ which
isn't bad.

There's still Dowling to come back, I think we've missed
him tbh. Personally I'd favour Zebo over Hurley, Hurley's
solid but is he anything more?

Course it's hard to know which of our backs are bad and
which ones are simply badly coached. That's my biggest
fear that we've finally found some good young backs in
Barnes, Zebo and Hanrahan and we can't make anything of
them due to the coaching.

Tobyglen
28th-March-2011, 11:53
I don't know, I can see Zebo going past Hurley, Murphy for
a wing spot next season. He's got decent gas.
Deasy would be a bit small for 12 imo.

Jones, Howlett, Earls, NIQ, Zebo, Keatley, Murray.

Would some serious gas in that team. Only 2 NIQ which
isn't bad.

There's still Dowling to come back, I think we've missed
him tbh. Personally I'd favour Zebo over Hurley, Hurley's
solid but is he anything more?

Course it's hard to know which of our backs are bad and
which ones are simply badly coached. That's my biggest
fear that we've finally found some good young backs in
Barnes, Zebo and Hanrahan and we can't make anything of
them due to the coaching.
Any news on Dowling's/Hurley's contract? We can't sign
everyone up. We need a new backs coach alright.

busbi
28th-March-2011, 12:10
Was very impressed with him in his last few performances for
Munster. Have heard he was on fire in that Mary's game even
aside from the tries. Should be pressing hard for a place next
season, particularly if he keeps up his recent improvement in
defence.

With Earls, Jones, Zebo, Hanrahan and maybe a few like
Barnes and Deasy we could finally see a HEC standard outside
backline that is predominately homegrown or at least Irish.
Will allow us add power to the pack from outside.

Quailman
28th-March-2011, 14:55
I would keep playing him as much as possible (a real shame
he wasn't drafted into the Amlin squad, but we needed Fogarty
in there and providing he gets the games, Murray is a priority). I'd be playing Keet at 13 and Zebo on the left wing.

He'll have tons of competition for International places (the
guys already there plus Conway, Gilroy and O'Halloran) but I
think he can definitely be a worthy HEC starter for a long
time.

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 16:01
Anyone hear the rumour O'Halloran is being brought in?
Would be a good signing even if i doubt it'll come to pass.

overthehillprop
28th-March-2011, 16:57
Anyone hear the rumour O'Halloran is being brought in?

Would be a good signing even if i doubt it'll come to pass.

heard a rumour that we were looking at him a few weeks back but not sure how true it is/was.

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 17:54
Anyone hear the rumour O'Halloran is
being brought in?
Would be a good signing even if i doubt it'll come to pass.
heard a rumour that we were looking at him a few
weeks back but not sure how true it is/was.

Interesting, he'd be a good signing but it's an admission that
guys like O'Dea and Kuntz and maybe even Zebo aren't rated
that highly.

overthehillprop
28th-March-2011, 18:00
Anyone hear the rumour O'Halloran is

being brought in?

Would be a good signing even if i doubt it'll come to pass.

heard a rumour that we were looking at him a few

weeks back but not sure how true it is/was.



Interesting, he'd be a good signing but it's an admission that

guys like O'Dea and Kuntz and maybe even Zebo aren't rated

that highly.

O'Halloran can play centre and wing i think. Might be an admission that the likes of Hircock isn't rated.

scotscor
28th-March-2011, 18:39
Any chance he can play 12?

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 18:41
Any chance he can play 12?


Who, TOH or Zebo?

scotscor
28th-March-2011, 18:44
TOH.
We seem to have a few 13's floating around, but an Irish born 12 is pretty hard to see. Dineen seems to have completely disappeared which is a pity. I think Murphy played there in a HEC game and was the first in about ten years (Irish born 12 in a HEC game for Munster)

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 18:47
TOH.We seem to have a few 13's floating
around, but an Irish born 12 is pretty hard to see. Dineen
seems to have completely disappeared which is a pity. I think
Murphy played there in a HEC game and was the first in about
ten years (Irish born 12 in a HEC game for Munster)


Hanrahan looks to be a better bet as a 12.

John123
28th-March-2011, 19:19
Was Kuntz even a consideration Joey?

grafter1
28th-March-2011, 19:23
If making it to Munster level on a consistant basis was based solely on attacking Zebo would have a chance. Unfortunately you need to be just as good at defending and tackling. Zebo cant defend and unless he addresses this quickly he'll at best be a squad player in the magners league and more likely will end up being a very good AIL player

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 19:27
Was Kuntz even a consideration Joey?


Laz rates him, good enough for me.

John123
28th-March-2011, 19:32
Was Kuntz even a consideration Joey?





Laz rates him, good enough for me.

I saw a lot of him up to U18's and while he always stood out cause he had great gas and was very physical, I always doubted he has the necessary skills to go pro. Again, it's been two years since I've seen him so he may have improved bagloads since...

Quailman
28th-March-2011, 19:39
If making it to Munster level on a consistant basis was based solely on attacking Zebo would have a chance. Unfortunately you need to be just as good at defending and tackling. </span>Zebo cant defend and unless he addresses this quickly he'll at best be a squad player in the magners league and more likely will end up being a very good AIL player

Have you watched him the last couple of months? His defence has actually been very strong.

In the U20s he was sloppy positionally and often looked lazy in defence (realignment and positioning), but that hasn't been evident in his ML appearances.

Tobyglen
28th-March-2011, 19:40
If making it to Munster level on a
consistant basis was based solely on attacking Zebo would
have a chance.* Unfortunately you need to be just as good
at defending &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;and
tackling.* &lt;/span&gt;Zebo cant defend and unless he
addresses this quickly he'll at best be a squad player in the
magners league and more likely will end up being a very
good AIL playerHave you watched him the last
couple of months? His defence has actually been very
strong.In the U20s he was sloppy positionally and often
looked lazy in defence (realignment and positioning), but
that hasn't been evident in his ML appearances.
Grafter hasn't a rashers, he thinks David Wallace has lost
all his pace.

JoeyFantastic
28th-March-2011, 19:41
If making it to Munster level on a
consistant basis was based solely on attacking Zebo would
have a chance.* Unfortunately you need to be just as good
at defending &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;and
tackling.* &lt;/span&gt;Zebo cant defend and unless he
addresses this quickly he'll at best be a squad player in the
magners league and more likely will end up being a very
good AIL playerHave you watched him the last
couple of months? His defence has actually been very
strong.In the U20s he was sloppy positionally and often
looked lazy in defence (realignment and positioning), but
that hasn't been evident in his ML appearances.

He's been putting himself in place to tackle but his tackling
technique itself is poor, or at least, it was against Treviso,
iirc.

grafter1
28th-March-2011, 19:57
If making it to Munster level on a
consistant basis was based solely on attacking Zebo would
have a chance. Unfortunately you need to be just as good
at defending &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;and
tackling. &lt;/span&gt;Zebo cant defend and unless he
addresses this quickly he'll at best be a squad player in the
magners league and more likely will end up being a very
good AIL playerHave you watched him the last
couple of months? His defence has actually been very
strong.In the U20s he was sloppy positionally and often
looked lazy in defence (realignment and positioning), but
that hasn't been evident in his ML appearances.
Grafter hasn't a rashers, he thinks David Wallace has lost
all his pace.


Good man Toby keep going with that one.


You think Wallace still has the pace he had 5 years ago. Who hasnt a rashers i wonder?


Watch Zebo defend and come back to me.


You should learn to debate rather than ridicule. You might get further in life if you learn to tolerate the views of others - especially if you're posting on a fans forum.


Zebo is a great player going forward but im sorry he cant defend

Tobyglen
28th-March-2011, 20:02
If making it to
Munster level on a consistant basis was based solely on
attacking Zebo would have a chance.* Unfortunately you
need to be just as good at defending &lt;span style="font-
weight: bold;"&gt;and tackling.* &lt;/span&gt;Zebo cant defend
and unless he addresses this quickly he'll at best be a
squad player in the magners league and more likely will
end up being a very good AIL playerHave you
watched him the last couple of months? His defence has
actually been very strong.In the U20s he was sloppy
positionally and often looked lazy in defence (realignment
and positioning), but that hasn't been evident in his ML
appearances. Grafter hasn't a rashers, he thinks
David Wallace has lost all his pace.


Good man Toby keep going with that one.


You think Wallace still has the pace he had 5 years ago.*
Who hasnt a rashers i wonder?


Watch Zebo defend and come back to me.


You should learn to debate rather than ridicule. You
might get further in life if you learn to tolerate the views of
others - especially if you're posting on a fans forum.


Zebo is a great player going forward but im sorry he
cant defend
Wallace hasn't lost a bit of pace, did you see his try against
Toulon? He's an animal & still has no issues getting around
the pitch for 80 minutes. Zebo will make it aswell.
Ireland's best back in the Irish U-20s world cup. Tackling is
all about technique, he'll learn that quickly.

John123
28th-March-2011, 20:09
IF tackling is his only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone remember the great Denis Hickie?

davidos
28th-March-2011, 20:10
If making it to
Munster level on a consistant basis was based solely on
attacking Zebo would have a chance.* Unfortunately you
need to be just as good at defending &lt;span style="font-
weight: bold;"&gt;and tackling.* &lt;/span&gt;Zebo cant defend
and unless he addresses this quickly he'll at best be a
squad player in the magners league and more likely will
end up being a very good AIL playerHave you
watched him the last couple of months? His defence has
actually been very strong.In the U20s he was sloppy
positionally and often looked lazy in defence (realignment
and positioning), but that hasn't been evident in his ML
appearances. Grafter hasn't a rashers, he thinks
David Wallace has lost all his pace.


Good man Toby keep going with that one.


You think Wallace still has the pace he had 5 years ago.*
Who hasnt a rashers i wonder?


Watch Zebo defend and come back to me.


You should learn to debate rather than ridicule. You
might get further in life if you learn to tolerate the views of
others - especially if you're posting on a fans forum.


Zebo is a great player going forward but im sorry he
cant defend
Wallace hasn't lost a bit of pace, did you see his try against
Toulon? He's an animal & still has no issues getting around
the pitch for 80 minutes. Zebo will make it aswell.
Ireland's best back in the Irish U-20s world cup. Tackling is
all about technique, he'll learn that quickly.

I don't think that was a great world cup, though their grand
slam was pretty impressive.

wrangy
28th-March-2011, 20:20
IF tackling is his only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone remember the great Denis Hickie?


I just had to dig it up. What covering, what a tackle


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-qTQM

Munsterboy
29th-March-2011, 07:41
IF tackling is his
only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone
remember the great Denis Hickie?


I just had to dig it up. What covering, what a
tackle


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-
<br / target="_blank">qTQM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-
qTQM</a>

Jesus he had some wheels didn't he? I miss Denis. smileys/cry.gif

LeakyBoots
29th-March-2011, 07:53
The ref had pace too!

Cowboy
29th-March-2011, 07:57
IF tackling is his
only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone
remember the great Denis Hickie?


I just had to dig it up. What covering, what a
tackle


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-
<br / target="_blank">qTQM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-
qTQM</a>

Jesus he had some wheels didn't he? I miss Denis. smileys/cry.gif


The man was an aeroplane.

flynn's Ghost
29th-March-2011, 08:03
i forgot how fst he was. great tackle

Ruckuss
29th-March-2011, 09:36
I agree with Tobyglen about Zebo at the under 20 WC, I watched every Ireland match and a few others, he played well when many around him were poor

breakfast roll
29th-March-2011, 10:09
Zebo's has a few things he needs to work on. He tackles
too high, offloads when perhaps he should not and his
positioning is pretty poor. However he is superb in attack,
defenders dont seem to be able to read him at all. If
youth/academy coaches are unable to iron out his flaws
then I fail to see the value in having these coaches. Very
few if any players at 20/21 are the finished article. The fact
that he has got a senior contract is very promising, leaving
a player go due to the above flaws would be an awful
decision considering what he brings to the table.
I went to a few Con games a few weeks ago and he
seemed to get very irritated at the coaches when they
were instructing him from the line. It may have been that
too many people were giving him too many instruction at
once but it didnt look good. If he has the right attitude then
he has a great chance of being a regular HC starter. A back
3 of Earls, Jones and Zebo has an awful lot of potential.

John123
29th-March-2011, 11:32
IF tackling is his

only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone

remember the great Denis Hickie?



I just had to dig it up. What covering, what a

tackle



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-%0D%3Cbr%20/%20target=" _blank="" target="_blank">qTQM"&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-

qTQM</a>



Jesus he had some wheels didn't he? I miss Denis. smileys/cry.gif

Me too, sensational player and Ireland have missed him. Retired too early imho, still had a couple of seasons in him.

Skyhawk
29th-March-2011, 13:42
I watched him playing against St. Marys at the weekend, and he really stood out as a fine player. Obviously Munster is a big step up, will be interesting to see how he gets on at a higher level

isola ciarrai
29th-March-2011, 16:54
IF tackling is his only problem I wouldn't be too
worried, anyone remember the great Denis Hickie?

Saw Zebo up close once or twice and he has two things we have not had in
a native product is a long time - raw power and real speed. We simply
must make a player out of him, we cannot afford to waste him. Only for
very dubious crossing call in Aironi, would have made a sensational break.
He is fast, really fast, like Earls fast. Tackling is a skill and a technique
needing only decent backs and defence coaching.......which he is not
receiving here.
Unlike Denis H, Zebo is huge and hard and will hurt people even with an
average tackle.
Can see it now - Earls counterattacks, blazes up the middle offloads to
Zebo - boom! Mind you, he loves himself, but then he is young and gifted.
From a sceptic I am a convert - he has it all in potential.

Rogfan88
29th-March-2011, 17:14
I was at the Cork con vs Munsters game a few months back
and from what i saw of Zebo wasn't much, but I can say that
he is very comfortable under the highball, otherwise he waas
more a spectator than a player at that game. He also can't
kick a ball! went to kick the ball from his own 22 and he
kicked it all the way passed the opposing tryline, out of
bounds! I still think he has potential from what I saw from him
in a Munster top imo.

Clubman
29th-March-2011, 17:49
IF tackling is his

only problem I wouldn't be too worried, anyone

remember the great Denis Hickie?



I just had to dig it up. What covering, what a

tackle



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-%0D%3Cbr%20/%20target=" _blank="" target="_blank">qTQM"&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m47gK-

qTQM</a>



Jesus he had some wheels didn't he? I miss Denis. smileys/cry.gif





The man was an aeroplane.

Have another look and keep an eye out for the Bull. Now there is a slow man that managed to cover an amount of ground, back in the day unfortunately.

scotscor
23rd-January-2012, 22:35
BBC reporting that Zebo out of the additional players with an injury, anyone know anything?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/16685978.stm

Late try
23rd-January-2012, 22:40
Saw Zebo up close once or twice and he has two things we have not had in
a native product is a long time - raw power and real speed. We simply
must make a player out of him, we cannot afford to waste him. Only for
very dubious crossing call in Aironi, would have made a sensational break.
He is fast, really fast, like Earls fast. Tackling is a skill and a technique
needing only decent backs and defence coaching.......which he is not
receiving here.
Unlike Denis H, Zebo is huge and hard and will hurt people even with an
average tackle.
Can see it now - Earls counterattacks, blazes up the middle offloads to
Zebo - boom! Mind you, he loves himself, but then he is young and gifted.
From a sceptic I am a convert - he has it all in potential.

From March last year, worth bumping.

JoeyFantastic
23rd-January-2012, 22:40
BBC reporting that Zebo out of the additional players with an injury, anyone know anything?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/16685978.stm

Meant to be the injured Luke Fitz. Zebo is in the A squad now.

Bosco
23rd-January-2012, 22:58
If he pulled up his socks, imagine how good he would be

McCloud
23rd-January-2012, 23:05
If he pulled up his socks, imagine how good he would be

Better aerodynamics for a start. Bunched up like that on his ankles must be creating a bit of wind resistance.

Bosco
23rd-January-2012, 23:11
plus its hard to tell what colour socks he is wearing

Tobyglen
23rd-January-2012, 23:15
I don't know, I can see Zebo going past Hurley, Murphy for
a wing spot next season. He's got decent gas.
Deasy would be a bit small for 12 imo.

Jones, Howlett, Earls, NIQ, Zebo, Keatley, Murray.

Would some serious gas in that team. Only 2 NIQ which
isn't bad.
Another genius call from last season.

Who's Peter O' Mahoney again?

joconnell
23rd-January-2012, 23:37
;)

http://www.planetrugby.com/poll/results/0,26151,308906,00.html

gavindillon
23rd-January-2012, 23:42
;)

http://www.planetrugby.com/poll/results/0,26151,308906,00.html

Brilliant!

Bosco
23rd-January-2012, 23:48
Another genius call from last season.

Who's Peter O' Mahoney again?

How is that genius? you go 4 out of 7 players in the back line wrong, Contradicted yourself with Murphy by saying he would be on the wing, but then you didn't name him, and he only shifted the to the wing cos Hurley pushed him out of the FB role. :)

Waterfordlad
23rd-January-2012, 23:49
Nice one

Tobyglen
23rd-January-2012, 23:51
How is that genius? you go 4 out of 7 players in the back line wrong, Contradicted yourself with Murphy by saying he would be on the wing, but then you didn't name him, and he only shifted the to the wing cos Hurley pushed him out of the FB role. :)
Tony will figure it out soon. He's only started playing young O' Mahoney because of my threats.

Tobyglen
24th-January-2012, 00:10
1367

gavindillon
24th-January-2012, 00:14
Classic! The facial expression makes it! I'm going to put that somewhere safe for later usage if you don't mind!

isola ciarrai
24th-January-2012, 01:01
Saw Zebo up close once or twice and he has two things we have not had in
a native product is a long time - raw power and real speed. We simply
must make a player out of him, we cannot afford to waste him. Only for
very dubious crossing call in Aironi, would have made a sensational break.
He is fast, really fast, like Earls fast. Tackling is a skill and a technique
needing only decent backs and defence coaching.......which he is not
receiving here.
Unlike Denis H, Zebo is huge and hard and will hurt people even with an
average tackle.
Can see it now - Earls counterattacks, blazes up the middle offloads to
Zebo - boom! Mind you, he loves himself, but then he is young and gifted.
From a sceptic I am a convert - he has it all in potential.

Can I just congratulate myself on this perceptive post last March? Modesty, nah!

lactose intolerant
24th-January-2012, 01:04
Classic! The facial expression makes it! I'm going to put that somewhere safe for later usage if you don't mind!

Looking at your avatar makes me realise how zebo still has much to learn.....he's holding the ball in the wrong bloody hand

isola ciarrai
24th-January-2012, 01:09
From March last year, worth bumping.

Late, bumped the damn thing myself. I am so rarely right about anything, I am wallowing in this one. Like a pig in.......
Mind you, though Sam T was the business!

Lomasney
24th-January-2012, 02:00
Well, if the Rugby Career fails, looks like he could resurrect the Die hard franchise!!! lol

MrsMcGahan
24th-January-2012, 08:54
Didn't think his 'showboating' was too extreme - mostly youthful exhuberance, Earls' 'dive' v Italy in the WC was worse.
You need players with a bit of confidance. He has great hands - the pass from Hurley was close to his knees but he took it effortlessly and the catch from the 2nd half drop off was a gem too - that ball bounced off his chest but he took it anyway. He'll be a real thorn in opposition sides. On top of that he has a huge boot on him.
But not much of a dancer according to Axel. Useless at table tennis too apparently.

Grandpasimpson
24th-January-2012, 08:59
I have been thinking for a good while that this lad will be a superstar, indeed even got grief a few weeks back in the pub for saying it. However he really needs to quit with the swallow dives, how we give out about the likes of Ashton when he does it. Now I'm not categorising the lad in the same sub-spieces as Ashton but where did he get the "spit or swallow" nickname from?

MrsMcGahan
24th-January-2012, 09:04
A big difference with Ashton's swallow diving is that he dives with arms outstretched holding the ball with 1 hand. That will definitely go wrong one day and he'll drop the ball. Think that's what's annoying the coaches more than the showboating.

Duffman
24th-January-2012, 09:11
His show boating was retarded to the extreme, just put the effin ball down you little ****

the plastic paddy
24th-January-2012, 09:19
Don't mind players diving in to score as long as they have very close control of the ball as Zebo does and Earls did. What I hate about Ashton'd dive is he has so little control of the ball. Diving into score is actually a much safer way to put the ball down: I have seen plenty of players damage hamstrings putting the ball down stood upright. Zebo is not Ashton because he is fairly sound defensively, he plays for the team and he also has a cracking left boot which is a real asset. There is no chance he will be allowed to get ahead of himself.

gavindillon
24th-January-2012, 09:51
There is no chance he will be allowed to get ahead of himself.

No worries there. I think most of us can agree that for a Heineken Hat Trick after only 4 (I think) matches in the competition is cause for a little celebration, especially towards the end when the game was won. The squad will slag that out of him for the rest of the year. To be fair, the crowd were also chanting his name, which is something you'd rarely see, and he must have just been giving them what they wanted. Youthful excitement and nothing to be concerned about. He won't do it again (although I'd happily put up with one showy personality in the team if he continues scoring hat tricks). Ashton doesn't even come into the equation as a comparison!

munstershane
24th-January-2012, 09:54
A big difference with Ashton's swallow diving is that he dives with arms outstretched holding the ball with 1 hand. That will definitely go wrong one day and he'll drop the ball. Think that's what's annoying the coaches more than the showboating.

Agreed. No probs with Zebo if the ball is tucked under one arm. Ashtons celebration is an accident waiting to happen.

John123
24th-January-2012, 09:58
What's the problem either way? As long as they don't drop it big deal...

As an aside he has lovely hairless legs. FFS...

Angus Axe
24th-January-2012, 10:44
Give him his credit, he's got an opportunity with Dougie out injured and he's grabbed it with both hands. He got natural speed, something we've not had a lot of. As long as he keeps scoring, he can cross the line doing the cancan.

Boo-boo
24th-January-2012, 11:01
When you think of the outstretched arms of both Botha and Murphy's tries they must have super glued the ball on. The tries were all good calibre and no soft let ins.

Anyone have any links yet for the tries?

B.A.
24th-January-2012, 11:07
Another genius call from last season.

Who's Peter O' Mahoney again?

You also said BJ Botha was a terrible signing.

Valencia
24th-January-2012, 11:39
To be fair Zebo, he has a name made for crowd adulation and chanting....you can't really imagine "Murrr....phy!!" No offence to Johne. Actually watched the game in full again last night, massive kudos to Johne Murphy who pulled Tiny's arm as he was reaching into touch down. He'd been slowed bravely by Keith Earls, but it was Murphy who saved a certain try

Unfortunately we then ballsed up the setting up for said scrum

Weetabix
24th-January-2012, 11:47
I've been critical of him anytime I've seen him in the Rabid Erect 12 (say it in a posh dub accent ;)) this season, but he's getting better all the time, I texted this to my bud on Saturday night "In fairness himself (Zebo) and Coughlan have been immense tonight. Might we actually have a big game "showtime" ego, with skills to match?"
Willy Beeman in the making

the plastic paddy
24th-January-2012, 12:04
To be fair Zebo, he has a name made for crowd adulation and chanting....you can't really imagine "Murrr....phy!!" No offence to Johne. Actually watched the game in full again last night, massive kudos to Johne Murphy who pulled Tiny's arm as he was reaching into touch down. He'd been slowed bravely by Keith Earls, but it was Murphy who saved a certain try

Unfortunately we then ballsed up the setting up for said scrumPleased to see Johne picking up some plaudits for his efforts, I think he has been very good for Munster this year and picks up a lot of unfair slagging.

JN.Allezdax.com
24th-January-2012, 12:23
Out of the wing,
When the defense is bright,
Comes the horseman known as Zebo.
This bold runner
Carves a "Z" with his run,
A "Z" that stands for Zebo.

Zebo, Zebo, the fox so cunning and free,
Zebo, Zebo, who makes the run of the Z.

He is polite,
But the wicked take flight
When they run behind him, Zebo.
He’s friend of the speed,
And side-step, and bright space,
This very unique senor Zebo.

Zebo, Zebo, the fox so cunning and free,
Zebo, Zebo, who makes the sign of the Z.

Zebo, Zebo, Zebo, Zebo, Zebo.

Ok, going back to my siesta, it's better... http://kay.smiley.free.fr/images/2320.gif

ustix
24th-January-2012, 12:29
Out of the wing,
When the defense is bright,
Comes the horseman known as Zebo.
This bold runner
Carves a "Z" with his run,
A "Z" that stands for Zebo.

Zebo, Zebo, the fox so cunning and free,
Zebo, Zebo, who makes the run of the Z.

He is polite,
But the wicked take flight
When they run behind him, Zebo.
He’s friend of the speed,
And side-step, and bright space,
This very unique senor Zebo.

Zebo, Zebo, the fox so cunning and free,
Zebo, Zebo, who makes the sign of the Z.

Zebo, Zebo, Zebo, Zebo, Zebo.

Ok, going back to my siesta, it's better... http://kay.smiley.free.fr/images/2320.gif
Magnifique, Dax.
Back to the dayjob for you and young Simon too.

Jackdaniels
24th-January-2012, 14:23
A big difference with Ashton's swallow diving is that he dives with arms outstretched holding the ball with 1 hand. That will definitely go wrong one day and he'll drop the ball. Think that's what's annoying the coaches more than the showboating.

Earlsy does it it the odd time too. I wouldnt mind it so much once it doesnt become regular. Just ask Jeremy Staunton or any of us Garryowen lads about how wrong it can go!! Will never forget that day! Eejit! :)

C'mere on the OP....I was 100% wrong and I am 100% deligted to admit it :)

deadlyBuzz
12th-January-2015, 11:44
Looking at the Gallery in the munster rugby website, it has the following caption under Zebo scoring the try...
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/19773.php
"Simon Zebo runs inMunsters bonus point try. The Corkman now needs one more league try to equalDoug Howletts leaguerecord of 22."
That's some statement given how prolific Doug Howlett was so I said I'd look it up and compare it with the overall try statistics, and sure enough, there it is.
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/player_stats_tries.php
3 behind Doug howlett and still only 25. I knew he had a nack for scoring tries but at this rate he could easily be out top try scorer ever in another 5 years. Say what you want about the man, he is delivering where it counts.

Cougar Moon
12th-January-2015, 12:19
Its his penchant for giving away tries that worries me.

Munsterboy
12th-January-2015, 12:35
Its his penchant for giving away tries that worries me.

So how many tries has he "given away" do you reckon?

Miguel Sanchez
12th-January-2015, 12:56
Well ok, to be honest, Having seen a bit of him in action, both in green and red, I dont think the lad will make a serious international class winger or centre. He will be more of a Denis Hurley than a Denis Hickie. I hope I am wrong, I really do but he doesnt seem to have that magic step or kick on that the really top class wingers have. Will he be a regular Munster back for years to come....no


Could be make it as a decent Connacht/Premiership mid table club winger, yes.

Good call Jd.

Cougar Moon
12th-January-2015, 13:33
So how many tries has he "given away" do you reckon?
Sorry hes one of our own. I lost the run of myself for a minute. He's brilliant. A ligind.

lactose intolerant
12th-January-2015, 13:36
Sorry hes one of our own. I lost the run of myself for a minute. He's brilliant. A ligind.

Well substantiated point........

Grandpasimpson
12th-January-2015, 13:54
Just reading through the 1st page of this thread (which is quite humorous in places!) and it got me to thinking that I haven't seen too much of Toby Glen and Joey Fantastic around these parts with a while.

lactose intolerant
12th-January-2015, 14:01
Just reading through the 1st page of this thread (which is quite humorous in places!) and it got me to thinking that I haven't seen too much of Toby Glen and Joey Fantastic around these parts with a while.

Toby has gone over to the dark side - he can be seen prancing around any of Harcourt/Dawson/Leeson St of a quiet weekend with DK, Yordi and the goys in tow

Not much is known about Josef, but I'd like to imagine he is going through a period of self-discovery akin to the storyline of Batman Begins

Munsterboy
12th-January-2015, 14:23
Sorry hes one of our own. I lost the run of myself for a minute. He's brilliant. A ligind.

Sooo, that would be how many?

Benji
12th-January-2015, 14:27
Toby has gone over to the dark side - he can be seen prancing around any of Harcourt/Dawson/Leeson St of a quiet weekend with DK, Yordi and the goys in tow

Not much is known about Josef, but I'd like to imagine he is going through a period of self-discovery akin to the storyline of Batman Begins

Well done, Ive not seen Toby in the lycra and toyota jersey at spinning since last year. He does love those Dublin girls

King Red
12th-January-2015, 14:31
Its his penchant for giving away tries that worries me.
Go on, how many?

lactose intolerant
12th-January-2015, 14:37
Well done, Ive not seen Toby in the lycra and toyota jersey at spinning since last year. He does love those Dublin girls

girls?

Benji
12th-January-2015, 15:02
girls?
Maybe his gone full circle.

Cougar Moon
12th-January-2015, 17:05
Go on, how many?
14.5

King Red
12th-January-2015, 17:09
14.5
Well now, there's me put in my place.

Cougar Moon
12th-January-2015, 17:18
Pointless in discussing frailties, (or incorrectly perceived frailities..clearly), of our untouchables on this site....unless they feck off to northampton of course :)
I thought CA were extremely lucky to score the match turning points against us in Clermont though.

King Red
12th-January-2015, 18:13
Pointless in discussing frailties, (or incorrectly perceived frailities..clearly), of our untouchables on this site....unless they feck off to northampton of course :)
I thought CA were extremely lucky to score the match turning points against us in Clermont though.
See, there's the problem - there's a difference between discussing frailties and making sweeping unsubstantiated statements.

Munsterboy
12th-January-2015, 19:07
Pointless in discussing frailties, (or incorrectly perceived frailities..clearly), of our untouchables on this site....unless they feck off to northampton of course :)
I thought CA were extremely lucky to score the match turning points against us in Clermont though.

It's not pointless to discuss frailties at all. It just helps if you're prepared to point out at least a few specific incidents to back up your view.

So, if you reckon Zebo gives away a lot of tries, by all means fire away.

ustix
12th-January-2015, 19:39
It's not pointless to discuss frailties at all. It just helps if you're prepared to point out at least a few specific incidents to back up your view.

So, if you reckon Zebo gives away a lot of tries, by all means fire away.
Isn't it that spirit of French rugby, to score more tries than one concedes.

barleys chinos
12th-January-2015, 23:23
Anyone who bad mouths Zebo is a racist

Cougar Moon
13th-January-2015, 09:31
Anyone who bad mouths Zebo is a racist

And a mentalist

Balla Boy
13th-January-2015, 10:08
I don't see an issue with Zebo's tackling. You'd also need to be clear play by play who it was that was supposed to be picking up the last man - it can't be the winger on every phase.

One are for me where we clearly have had issues in is our defence of kick returns, but that would be tricky to pick the bones out of I think. Even getting as far as "we regularly concede tries down wing X" doesn't get us as far as saying "winger X is therefore defending poorly".

We call a lot on Zebo to carry, and often in areas right across the pitch. It could be that he's not getting back to the right place after, or that the cover is going astray somewhere.

scotscor
13th-January-2015, 10:14
Personally I think Zebo is an excellent tackler and generally very good at covering other players. But there were three tries in two games last month where he could have done better.
I wish we got back Zebo from last season and not joes Zebo. I'd prefer more tries and have someone else in the rucks

cornerboy
13th-January-2015, 10:19
Zebo has become a tremendous defender. The combination of speed and physique means that if I had to chose any Irish back to make a last ditch try saving tackle, I would call on our Simon.

Dougie
13th-January-2015, 10:51
There aren't many back 3 players I'd say would be able to get Steffon Armitage into touch from about 4 yards out while hitting him from the side but Zebo did it in the semi final last year.

ustix
13th-January-2015, 17:25
Zebo has become a tremendous defender. The combination of speed and physique means that if I had to chose any Irish back to make a last ditch try saving tackle, I would call on our Simon.
I'd go with TB.

mtcmolloy
14th-January-2015, 09:19
I don't see an issue with Zebo's tackling. You'd also need to be clear play by play who it was that was supposed to be picking up the last man - it can't be the winger on every phase.

.

I think he is 1. a superb attacking winger
2. a committed and aggressive tackler
3. a sometimes not clued-in defensive reader.

In both clermont games he was 'adrift' .. too far back and infield, to stop a try in the corner.
Virtually exactly the same error for both games. I highlighted it with visual evidence here some place.
I put this down to just plain lack of concentration.

busby
14th-January-2015, 11:02
His defending has always been a red herring. Aside from perhaps some positional reading when he came in first, I'm not sure it's ever been a big issue.

If you're a flashy attacking player in this country then you simply have to have defensive frailties it seems. The opposite also appears to be true, which is why Kearney gets such an easy ride for his blatant defensive porousness.

busby
14th-January-2015, 11:04
Personally I think Zebo is an excellent tackler and generally very good at covering other players. But there were three tries in two games last month where he could have done better.
I wish we got back Zebo from last season and not joes Zebo. I'd prefer more tries and have someone else in the rucks

Joe's Zebo? There was a rather big coaching change on a more local front which might also have something to do with it.

redherring
14th-January-2015, 11:39
I think he is 1. a superb attacking winger
2. a committed and aggressive tackler
3. a sometimes not clued-in defensive reader.

In both clermont games he was 'adrift' .. too far back and infield, to stop a try in the corner.
Virtually exactly the same error for both games. I highlighted it with visual evidence here some place.
I put this down to just plain lack of concentration.

And from an Irish POV that was in stark contrast to the displays Dave Kearney and Luke Fitzgerald gave against Munster. Zebo's problem is that when he plays well everyone will call him a superstar but when he plays poorly he's the scapegoat.

Munstersrebel
17th-January-2015, 16:38
Joe's Zebo? There was a rather big coaching change on a more local front which might also have something to do with it.
Amen, I think the real issue is closer to home because if Zeebs was close to MoM in most of his games, playing in his ways there is no way Uncle Joe would be able to overlook him...

the plastic paddy
17th-January-2015, 17:05
Amen, I think the real issue is closer to home because if Zeebs was close to MoM in most of his games, playing in his ways there is no way Uncle Joe would be able to overlook him...

He wasn't bad today. Put in more meaningful hits on Vunipola than the rest of the team put together.

PARISHMAN1970
4th-May-2015, 16:29
These jackets may become popular

https://twitter.com/SimonZebo/status/594485827620708352

Paddy Whac
4th-May-2015, 20:39
These jackets may become popular

https://twitter.com/SimonZebo/status/594485827620708352

Made by a member of MRSC, fair play to her.

Late try
17th-January-2016, 15:54
Waterfordlad (on another thread) says -

"Fair play to Simon Zebo he equaled Anthony Horgan's try-scoring record for Munster (41 tries) yesterday."

Thought that was worth popping in here.

The Outlaw
17th-January-2016, 16:01
His defending has always been a red herring. Aside from perhaps some positional reading when he came in first, I'm not sure it's ever been a big issue.

If you're a flashy attacking player in this country then you simply have to have defensive frailties it seems. The opposite also appears to be true, which is why Kearney gets such an easy ride for his blatant defensive porousness.

His defending is poor. He completely missing another tackle yesterday and he got away with it because the cover bailed him out.

Defence is king at international level. Whereas ROG was just a poor tackler he'd hurt himself trying to make the tackle- in my opinion Zebo doesn't and his non selection for Ireland wouldn't change even with a new coach. Its a convienient excuse for Munster fans to blame JS when it really isn't his fault at all

Boo-boo
17th-January-2016, 16:03
Horgan also scored his final try on his final day aged 33. Zebo has another 7 years on Anthony at Munster, should he choose to remain.

Boo-boo
17th-January-2016, 16:05
His defending is poor. He completely missing another tackle yesterday and he got away with it because the cover bailed him out.

Defence is king at international level. Whereas ROG was just a poor tackler he'd hurt himself trying to make the tackle- in my opinion Zebo doesn't and his non selection for Ireland wouldn't change even with a new coach. Its a convienient excuse for Munster fans to blame JS when it really isn't his fault at all

Yes, ROG always at least threw his body in the way to at least slow up a player, hence some wicked steam roller moments.

rathbaner
17th-January-2016, 16:08
Horgan also scored his final try on his final day aged 33. Zebo has another 7 years on Anthony at Munster, should he choose to remain.
He'll break the record by the end of the season surely, if he stays fit.
I really would hate to see him leave but I noticed on the radio yesterday he was still refusing to commit to Munster when asked about his future.

CauliflowerEars
17th-January-2016, 16:24
Yes, ROG always at least threw his body in the way to at least slow up a player, hence some wicked steam roller moments.
He did indeed! And against much much bigger lads. I think he even got himself called Ronan O'Doormat for awhile!

The Outlaw
17th-January-2016, 16:33
Yes, ROG always at least threw his body in the way to at least slow up a player, hence some wicked steam roller moments.

Yeah but he'd put himself in front of a bus if it came near the try line. I always admired him for that. Zebo would never do that for you- neither would Rob kearney to be fair. Both of them probably more worried about their looks

Late try
17th-January-2016, 16:45
He'll break the record by the end of the season surely, if he stays fit.
I really would hate to see him leave but I noticed on the radio yesterday he was still refusing to commit to Munster when asked about his future.

I reckon he has a fair chance of setting the next Munster try scoring record in Treviso.

hellovating
17th-January-2016, 19:26
Yeah but he'd put himself in front of a bus if it came near the try line. I always admired him for that. Zebo would never do that for you- neither would Rob kearney to be fair. Both of them probably more worried about their looks

what a crock of ****.

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 03:12
what a crock of ****.
Despite what's said here, Kearney's never shirked a tackle either. Sometimes you just set yourself wrong or get beaten.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 06:11
Despite what's said here, Kearney's never shirked a tackle either. Sometimes you just set yourself wrong or get beaten.

Hard to quantify shirked, but he definitely went through a period of trying to shoulder charge people into touch rather than tackle them, and missed a few of those attempts.

joconnell
18th-January-2016, 09:53
Despite what's said here, Kearney's never shirked a tackle either. Sometimes you just set yourself wrong or get beaten.

Kearney often hangs back too long and then he's in a bad position to start moving from - he sets himself like a soccer keeper and then he's too slow to get off the line if the attacker starts to change direction. He can hit hard but his standing off misses have happened too often - you'd rather him take the gamble and try to plow someone enough to wreck their pass at least. He's well capable of it too, the strength is there.

Zebo on the other hand I reckon is more of a mentality thing. Again he's taen out far bigger men so he's well capable of it, he just goes to sleep every now and then. He's got a habit of trying to tackle from behind by slapping the ball carriers arms in the hope of dislodging it (he's saved some tries that way) but that as a default method of tackling from behind isn't great percentage wise. Zebo's capable of a lot, we've all seen his top end play, he's just inconsistent. Might be just youth or possibly a bit of professionalism - I'd say he didn't have to put in the same effort as a lot of players with his natural ability so he doesn't drill himself as heavily.

Hugged Rugger
18th-January-2016, 09:57
kearney overthinks things i think. like hes trying to second guess which way runner will go "he's going to go left, no right, no ... oh hes gone"

The Last Stand
18th-January-2016, 10:08
kearney overthinks things i think. like hes trying to second guess which way runner will go "he's going to go left, no right, no ... oh hes gone"

Or he under thinks things.

joconnell
18th-January-2016, 10:10
Or he under thinks things.

He's so pretty :_heart__rvmp_by_bad

Cowboy
18th-January-2016, 10:17
13159
Better in all facets of fullback play and the scars to prove it. Just doesnt seem to get wrong footed, or out of position too badly, although when he does he still ****s his head at yermans thighs to try and stop him. Genuinely think he's the exceptional 15 in this hemisphere. His last ditch defence is borderline self harm.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 10:49
13159
Better in all facets of fullback play and the scars to prove it. Just doesnt seem to get wrong footed, or out of position too badly, although when he does he still ****s his head at yermans thighs to try and stop him. Genuinely think he's the exceptional 15 in this hemisphere. His last ditch defence is borderline self harm.

Leigh (Bilbo) can not only defend and is an exceptional goal kicker - his counter attacking is not great - leading for some in Wales to argue for L Williams - especially that Biggar (until recently) has been kicking so well.

The threat of Zebo seemed to have had a really positive impact on RK - frightened the life out of him that he would be dropped and he played something like his best in the world cup as a result.

Zebo picked at fullback in English Torygraph ' team of the weekend'.

Munsterboy
18th-January-2016, 11:56
Payne looked pretty assured for Ulster. I don't really rate him as a centre but he's a classy 15. Rob might come under pressure if Joe sees sense and stops playing the kiwi out of position.

Would love to see a bit of chopping and changing throughout the 6Ns. We have some real options in the back row, centres and back three to play with.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:08
Payne looked pretty assured for Ulster. I don't really rate him as a centre but he's a classy 15. Rob might come under pressure if Joe sees sense and stops playing the kiwi out of position.

Would love to see a bit of chopping and changing throughout the 6Ns. We have some real options in the back row, centres and back three to play with.

I can see why he's gone with Payne there, but that has to end now for me. We have a clutch of young centres coming through, and playing a 30 year old out of position is a short term solution to a problem that seems to be receding.

We should be looking to forge depth at centre out of Henshaw, Olding, McCloskey, Ringrose, Marshall, Scannell et al- there's a decade to come from some of these boys.

In a reversal of the issues we had for the last couple of seasons, it's the wings that worry me. Earls and Fitz are both only 28, but we don't have depth. Zebo is off form, Bowe hasn't been on form for a while, Gilroy never seems to have gotten back to where he was. Trimble remains solid, Kearney remains Kearney.

In the space of a year, I'd say that the dearth of midfield options and glut of wingers has been reversed.

joconnell
18th-January-2016, 12:15
Rory scholes and Tiernan O'Halloran are looking decent, McFadden seems to have nailed himself on as a winger instead of a centre too. Defo agree on Jared to 15.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 12:21
Payne looked pretty assured for Ulster. I don't really rate him as a centre but he's a classy 15. Rob might come under pressure if Joe sees sense and stops playing the kiwi out of position.

Would love to see a bit of chopping and changing throughout the 6Ns. We have some real options in the back row, centres and back three to play with.

I think both Kearneys now deserve to be picked. Dave K (who contests with Foley for popularity among some on here) - has been outstanding in last few matches and Rob looks like getting back to his best.(still wish he avoid traffic a bit more).

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:29
I think both Kearneys now deserve to be picked. Dave K (who contests with Foley for popularity among some on here) - has been outstanding in last few matches and Rob looks like getting back to his best.(still wish he avoid traffic a bit more).

By what measure has Kearney been outstanding? He's a couple of tries. Now, admittedly, this is already 66% of his haul for last year, but the guy is not a test level winger and never will be.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:33
Rory scholes and Tiernan O'Halloran are looking decent, McFadden seems to have nailed himself on as a winger instead of a centre too. Defo agree on Jared to 15.


McFadden is another guy that, for me, doesn't cut it as a test wing. Like Kearney, he's a perfectly honest and workmanlike player, but he just doesn't have the extra pace, vision, timing or whatever it is that wingers need in that little space.

I know he's injured, but over the last 12 months for me in Europe Jonny May is the benchmark. Pace, power, aggression and knows his way to the try line. How much time do we invest in players who will never reach that level?

Cowboy
18th-January-2016, 12:34
By what measure has Kearney been outstanding? He's a couple of tries. Now, admittedly, this is already 66% of his haul for last year, but the guy is not a test level winger and never will be.
Because Axel Foley told Adolphus Balla,,,,, duh!!!

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 12:38
He looks very solid, fast, good defence(though not in world cup) - yeah, maybe outstanding is a bit strong.

The Outlaw
18th-January-2016, 12:40
what a crock of ****.

No it's a fair call both are very poor tacklers . Their technique is awful.

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 12:41
He looks very solid, fast, good defence(though not in world cup) - yeah, maybe outstanding is a bit strong.
If the last few weeks have shown anything it's that Zebo would likely not have made those tackles in the World Cup either.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:44
He looks very solid, fast, good defence(though not in world cup) - yeah, maybe outstanding is a bit strong.

That's the problem, though. He looks very solid at club/provincial level, and isn't often caught for pace. But a Test winger at that level should be looking more than solid, and should be skinning three quarters of his opposition. Because he's only going to have to top tier of them opposite him in a test.

I'm sometimes tempted to compare Kearney to Anthony Horgan in terms of a good club/province winger who never quite made the step up on the bigger stage, but Horgan scored tries at a rate that Kearney never has. Maybe Dowling is a better analogy? He did a very effective job for Munster without ever being a try machine.

I can't use Earls as a comparison without appearing tribal, but look at Luke Fitzgerald. Even at Test level he can find a gap and a break that Kearney could struggle for all day without falling into it.

You should never be in a position where you know for a fact that your international winger, one on one ten or fifteen metres out, simply isn't going to beat his man and score.

Late try
18th-January-2016, 12:47
SZ also made the 80th minute stop and choke that ensured SF finished pointless on Saturday.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:49
If the last few weeks have shown anything it's that Zebo would likely not have made those tackles in the World Cup either.

But Zebo's form now isn't the form he took into the World Cup. Kearney's performance at the world cup is exactly what I would have expected him to produce.

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 12:49
You should never be in a position where you know for a fact that your international winger, one on one ten or fifteen metres out, simply isn't going to beat his man and score.
I think that's unfair and needless exaggeration, but certainly he's not a lethal tryscorer, although playing most of his career in a forward-oriented team probably skews that a bit.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 12:59
I think that's unfair and needless exaggeration, but certainly he's not a lethal tryscorer, although playing most of his career in a forward-oriented team probably skews that a bit.

It's not exaggeration at all though. He's just not a player who beats people on the outside. He does well in contact and makes yards (much like Dowling) but very rarely evades contact.

There's just no getting around his scoring record. He's played 95 games for Leinster, and scored 19 tries. Coincidentally, that's the same number of caps that Zebo has for Munster. He has 41 tries. Zebo has 15 tries in Europe. Kearney has 1. In 17 games.

Not a lethal try scorer is a bit of an understatement, I think.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 13:04
The general negativity around Irish rugby(although improved at the weekend) means that 'solid' starts to seem better than 'exciting' when considering backs to select. Ireland will be 'defending' their title not going out to win a third in a row- and that probably means Joe will go safe. Thats better for DK and Payne than it is for Zebo and McCloskey or even BOD's (pet project) Ringrose.

Probably both Kearneys, Fitz, Henshaw and Earls to start against Wales - Zebo on the bench - perhaps with McCloskey - and hopefully Payne?

the plastic paddy
18th-January-2016, 13:04
Simon Zebo makes it into the Telegraph's team of the weekend.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 13:06
Simon Zebo makes it into the Telegraph's team of the weekend.

Mentioned that above - that team has the look of a bit of quota allocation to it.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 13:06
The general negativity around Irish rugby(although improved at the weekend) means that 'solid' starts to seem better than 'exciting' when considering backs to select. Ireland will be 'defending' their title not going out to win a third in a row- and that probably means Joe will go safe. Thats better for DK and Payne than it is for Zebo and McCloskey or even BOD's (pet project) Ringrose.

Probably both Kearneys, Fitz, Henshaw and Earls to start against Wales - Zebo on the bench - perhaps with McCloskey?

True, but solid at club level doesn't translate to solid at Test level. In Kearney's case, it's translated to exposed. Fairly frequently, for me.

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 13:16
It's not exaggeration at all though. He's just not a player who beats people on the outside. He does well in contact and makes yards (much like Dowling) but very rarely evades contact.

There's just no getting around his scoring record. He's played 95 games for Leinster, and scored 19 tries. Coincidentally, that's the same number of caps that Zebo has for Munster. He has 41 tries. Zebo has 15 tries in Europe. Kearney has 1. In 17 games.

Not a lethal try scorer is a bit of an understatement, I think.
Well he can certainly beat players, I don't know why it has to be on the outside. I'm not exaggerating his finishing ability, just saying at Leinster wings don't get many chances regardless of how quick or slow they are.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 13:17
True, but solid at club level doesn't translate to solid at Test level. In Kearney's case, it's translated to exposed. Fairly frequently, for me.

Trimble not back yet to form and Bowe I think next in line - and that puts DK in the frame. Would like to see McCloskey forcing Fitz onto the wing - and Earls possibly preferred to DK(tight call) and Zebo on the bench.

The Outlaw
18th-January-2016, 13:26
It's not exaggeration at all though. He's just not a player who beats people on the outside. He does well in contact and makes yards (much like Dowling) but very rarely evades contact.

There's just no getting around his scoring record. He's played 95 games for Leinster, and scored 19 tries. Coincidentally, that's the same number of caps that Zebo has for Munster. He has 41 tries. Zebo has 15 tries in Europe. Kearney has 1. In 17 games.

Not a lethal try scorer is a bit of an understatement, I think.

They are very good provincial players but a little short of international quality.

They don't scare anybody . It's time for JS to nail his colours to the mast and experiment

hellovating
18th-January-2016, 13:33
No it's a fair call both are very poor tacklers . Their technique is awful.

that's not what i highlighted. it was the comment on the protection of their looks that was grade A horse manure.

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 13:38
Well he can certainly beat players, I don't know why it has to be on the outside. I'm not exaggerating his finishing ability, just saying at Leinster wings don't get many chances regardless of how quick or slow they are.

Outside is important because it's the side that scares a winger. The inside is useful, but will usually lead to traffic. A winger facing a player that he knows can do him on the outside has to model his positioning and decision making accordingly - the one with the gas sets the terms of that engagement, I think.

If you know you have your opposite number for gas, you can get away with a fair bit.

My original point stands, I think - if Earls is one on one with a last defender 15 yards out, you back him to score. If Kearney is in he same position, you don't.

Boo-boo
18th-January-2016, 14:00
It stands to Zebo the fact that people compare him to a full time seasoned full back when he is a winger slotting in to full back when needed but yet offers more than the other. There may be a splinter in zebo's good tackling eye but Kearney's eye is Coilte's biggest asset.

Corkmunsterman
18th-January-2016, 14:04
Outside is important because it's the side that scares a winger. The inside is useful, but will usually lead to traffic. A winger facing a player that he knows can do him on the outside has to model his positioning and decision making accordingly - the one with the gas sets the terms of that engagement, I think.

If you know you have your opposite number for gas, you can get away with a fair bit.

My original point stands, I think - if Earls is one on one with a last defender 15 yards out, you back him to score. If Kearney is in he same position, you don't.

true


There's just no getting around his scoring record. He's played 95 games for Leinster, and scored 19 tries. Coincidentally, that's the same number of caps that Zebo has for Munster. He has 41 tries. Zebo has 15 tries in Europe. Kearney has 1. In 17 games.

and one could also make the argument that over most of their careers Kearney has been playing in the stronger teams and in better backlines

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 14:20
Outside is important because it's the side that scares a winger. The inside is useful, but will usually lead to traffic. A winger facing a player that he knows can do him on the outside has to model his positioning and decision making accordingly - the one with the gas sets the terms of that engagement, I think.

If you know you have your opposite number for gas, you can get away with a fair bit.

My original point stands, I think - if Earls is one on one with a last defender 15 yards out, you back him to score. If Kearney is in he same position, you don't.
That's fair enough, but I still think beating a defender is beating a defender regardless of if it's on the outside or inside. Pace is obviously important too.

Grandpasimpson
18th-January-2016, 14:31
Trimble not back yet to form and Bowe I think next in line - and that puts DK in the frame. Would like to see McCloskey forcing Fitz onto the wing - and Earls possibly preferred to DK(tight call) and Zebo on the bench.
Why do you see Earls and DK as a tight call?

Balla Boy
18th-January-2016, 14:31
That's fair enough, but I still think beating a defender is beating a defender regardless of if it's on the outside or inside. Pace is obviously important too.

Beat them outside, at pace, into space and you score tries. Beat them, don't find space and lack the gas to clear traffic and you don't.

If Dave is beating men regularly, and scoring irregularly, then it suggests that he's repeatedly getting caught in situations where he should be scoring.

At his current rate of scoring, Kearney will still be short of Zebo's try tally if he plays another 100 games for Leinster.

AdolphusGrigson
18th-January-2016, 14:35
Bottom line is no real outstanding contenders for the wing - DK might get the nod - but I don't think that will be a major selection oversight/mistake.

It would be Bowe and Trimble for me (if fit and on form) and without them its 6 of 1 and half dozen of the other. Unfortunately for Zebo Munster havent been playing well - if she show up well in camp - arguably could be in on the wing - on the basis of being the best footballer or on the bench if Earls beats him to it.

whimpersnap
18th-January-2016, 14:35
Beat them outside, at pace, into space and you score tries. Beat them, don't find space and lack the gas to clear traffic and you don't.

If Dave is beating men regularly, and scoring irregularly, then it suggests that he's repeatedly getting caught in situations where he should be scoring.

At his current rate of scoring, Kearney will still be short of Zebo's try tally if he plays another 100 games for Leinster.
Dave's problem is Leinster don't really put the ball out wide near the tryline, or at least rarely have the past few seasons. That seems to be changing this season, thankfully. Again, I'm not building him up to be someone he's not, it's just my opinion his lack of tries isn't because he's a poor finisher or too slow to score tries.

Corkmunsterman
18th-January-2016, 14:36
Why do you see Earls and DK as a tight call?

who's making the call?

Spiffy
18th-January-2016, 18:57
Trimble not back yet to form and Bowe I think next in line - and that puts DK in the frame. Would like to see McCloskey forcing Fitz onto the wing - and Earls possibly preferred to DK(tight call) and Zebo on the bench.

There really should be nothing tight about it. Earls is streets ahead.

rathbaner
18th-January-2016, 19:05
Earls is streets ahead.Maybe so but he's William Street, not Grafton Street.

The Last Stand
18th-January-2016, 19:31
who's making the call?

Joe but I expect he will pick earls. Clearly likes him.

the plastic paddy
18th-January-2016, 20:34
Mentioned that above - that team has the look of a bit of quota allocation to it.

Who was in the CJ quota? Because Puffin Billy was not even close to him.

garryowen2323
19th-January-2016, 05:14
over the last 12 months for me in Europe Jonny May is the benchmark. Pace, power, aggression and knows his way to the try line.

Not sure how I missed this gem in my initial viewing! I wouldn't have Johnny May in the top 10 wingers in Europe never mind number 1. Defensively he's atrocious.

whimpersnap
19th-January-2016, 06:02
Not sure how I missed this gem in my initial viewing! I wouldn't have Johnny May in the top 10 wingers in Europe never mind number 1. Defensively he's atrocious.
But he is fast, which is all that matters around here. Hence why Gerhard VDH is the best winger in Ireland, despite barely being AIL standard.

bobbin
19th-January-2016, 06:24
Bottom line is no real outstanding contenders for the wing - DK might get the nod - but I don't think that will be a major selection oversight/mistake.

It would be Bowe and Trimble for me (if fit and on form) and without them its 6 of 1 and half dozen of the other. Unfortunately for Zebo Munster havent been playing well - if she show up well in camp - arguably could be in on the wing - on the basis of being the best footballer or on the bench if Earls beats him to it.

No mention for Matt Healy. Fastest man in Irish rugby, superb skills and in scorching form for Connacht last few seasons

garryowen2323
19th-January-2016, 07:53
No mention for Matt Healy. Fastest man in Irish rugby, superb skills and in scorching form for Connacht last few seasons

Fionn Carr 2.0??

mr chips
19th-January-2016, 08:44
But he is fast, which is all that matters around here. Hence why Gerhard VDH is the best winger in Ireland, despite barely being AIL standard.

Who in the name of jaysus has been claiming that? Come on whimpy, raise the bar please!

Corcíoch
19th-January-2016, 09:32
But he is fast, which is all that matters around here. Hence why Gerhard VDH is the best winger in Ireland, despite barely being AIL standard.

GVDH gets slated around here by most.

I was one of the very few who found merit in him and that was based on a very narrow area of his skill set - which we have been lacking as a side.

He is not barely AIL Standard - neither however is he ERCC level.

Waterfordlad
19th-January-2016, 09:46
I like GvdH personally. Defensively he is suspect at times but boy can he run

Corcíoch
19th-January-2016, 09:49
I like GvdH personally. Defensively he is suspect at times but boy can he run

He can and he has done well at times this season. V Ulster he took his try very well.

What I like about him is that he will make 1 clean line break in most games he plays. 1 good clean line break at least imo. Our failing is that there is never someone reading the play and on his shoulder for continuity.

In a team where clean line breaks from backs are at a premium I think it is a good ability to have.

His defence is not good enough for ERCC as it stands.

He has played very little continious Rugby in the last few years. That makes a difference too.

Munsterboy
19th-January-2016, 11:06
But he is fast, which is all that matters around here. Hence why Gerhard VDH is the best winger in Ireland, despite barely being AIL standard.

C'mon Whimper, we know you're trying to imply it's a choice between pace/finishing (Earls, Healy, Zebo etc.) and solidity/defence (Kearney) but it's clearly not. Dave is not exactly rock solid defensively now is he? And the other lads aren't all revolving doors either.

In terms of defence there's not much between most of the players being discussed but Dave is by far the least dangerous going forward. His record at all levels shows that. Unlike some of the others he only plays one position too.

Munsterboy
19th-January-2016, 11:08
He can and he has done well at times this season. V Ulster he took his try very well.

What I like about him is that he will make 1 clean line break in most games he plays. 1 good clean line break at least imo. Our failing is that there is never someone reading the play and on his shoulder for continuity.

In a team where clean line breaks from backs are at a premium I think it is a good ability to have.

His defence is not good enough for ERCC as it stands.

He has played very little continious Rugby in the last few years. That makes a difference too.

His overall skill levels are poor. Doesn't fill me with confidence at all, although he's improved a bit since he arrived. Still think ROM is a better all rounder, as is Conway.

Cowboy
19th-January-2016, 11:20
I like GvdH personally. Defensively he is suspect at times but boy can he run
13169

mr chips
19th-January-2016, 11:31
Indeed. That moment late on in the Ulster game where he and Amorosino combined to knock on and handle offside under no pressure, giving a late and potentially match-losing penalty opportunity to Ulster which Jackson failed to convert, was beneath even Forrest's limited capabilities. I don't like slating players or using single incidents to dismiss them out of hand, but going on this season he would certainly have to improve his game intelligence and his overall defensive performances to put any of Earls, Zebo, Conway or O'Mahony under pressure. He does have his merits, especially in attack and in being able to glide past opposition defenders with ball in hand. Unlike those I mentioned though, he hasn't yet shown that he can regularly be a vital/game-changing/game-winning member of the squad.

Native Land
19th-January-2016, 11:42
Maybe so but he's William Street, not Grafton Street.

Earls is class.

whimpersnap
19th-January-2016, 12:44
C'mon Whimper, we know you're trying to imply it's a choice between pace/finishing (Earls, Healy, Zebo etc.) and solidity/defence (Kearney) but it's clearly not. Dave is not exactly rock solid defensively now is he? And the other lads aren't all revolving doors either.

In terms of defence there's not much between most of the players being discussed but Dave is by far the least dangerous going forward. His record at all levels shows that. Unlike some of the others he only plays one position too.
I wasn't saying anything about DK or suggesting people thought GVDH was brilliant, just that pace gets overemphasised on here.

AdolphusGrigson
19th-January-2016, 12:45
No mention for Matt Healy. Fastest man in Irish rugby, superb skills and in scorching form for Connacht last few seasons

Quite right.. has looked really dangerous.

ehhweasel
19th-January-2016, 13:03
I wasn't saying anything about DK or suggesting people thought GVDH was brilliant, just that pace gets overemphasised on here.

There's overemphasising pace and there's simply pointing out that DK was in open field with all the space in the world to run in for a match winning try at Twickenham and was chased down by a second row and we came away with nothing.

The point is that DK can be passed into whatever amount of space you like, he almost definitely wont score. That's just not good enough for international wing play. Somebody made the comparison with Ian Dowling. I think that's fair enough- effective player, very good at club level but not enough of a threat for the international game.

Now, if it had been Itoje in that second row I'd cut him some slack but there are other examples.

bobbin
19th-January-2016, 13:17
Fionn Carr 2.0??

Not sure how much of him you have seen but the only comparison with Carr is birthplace and height. He is far superior player to Carr. Well able to defend and seriously plucky. Shane Williams more valid comparison for type of player he is. Probably not big enough in reality though.

Corcíoch
19th-January-2016, 13:18
His overall skill levels are poor. Doesn't fill me with confidence at all, although he's improved a bit since he arrived. Still think ROM is a better all rounder, as is Conway.

I would agree. When you evaluate our back 3 options in terms of their all round game he is way behind...... and that is borne out by our selections for big games.

whimpersnap
19th-January-2016, 13:24
There's overemphasising pace and there's simply pointing out that DK was in open field with all the space in the world to run in for a match winning try at Twickenham and was chased down by a second row and we came away with nothing.

The point is that DK can be passed into whatever amount of space you like, he almost definitely wont score. That's just not good enough for international wing play. Somebody made the comparison with Ian Dowling. I think that's fair enough- effective player, very good at club level but not enough of a threat for the international game.

Now, if it had been Itoje in that second row I'd cut him some slack but there are other examples.
Again, I am not interested in talking about Dave Kearney.

ehhweasel
19th-January-2016, 13:31
Again, I am not interested in talking about Dave Kearney.


Okey doke let's leave it there so, at least now we agree that he doesn't merit selection for Ireland and shouldn't be involved in the squad and the only thing keeping him involved is Joe's bias towards Leinster players.

garryowen2323
19th-January-2016, 20:25
Not sure how much of him you have seen but the only comparison with Carr is birthplace and height. He is far superior player to Carr. Well able to defend and seriously plucky. Shane Williams more valid comparison for type of player he is. Probably not big enough in reality though.

The sooner they release a sarcastic font for me the better