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ozoyo
23rd-September-2010, 14:13
ROG appears today in an article from l'Equipe (which is usually quite serious about what they publish).

The article is about the best 10 in the world being interested by France (Carter, Wilko, Hook, Cooper, Gitteau and ROG.)

L'Equipe claims that ROG's CV is circulating in France at the moment and that he offers his services for a 400K€ / year.

Hook could go to USAP for 450K€ a year

Carter could earn up to 1200K€ if he goes to Toulouse or Racing

Giteau is currently looking for a spot and would be worth 800K€

L'Equipe's point is that French top 14 salaries are attracting a number of International stars. Currently Hernandez, Steyn and Wilko are paid between 750 and 1000K€ a year by their club.

overthehillprop
23rd-September-2010, 14:18
Contract time again is it?


Which NFL club will be scouting him this time smileys/wink.gif


And of more importance which of those names can we afford and are Munster chasing them.

fogerty
23rd-September-2010, 14:18
Surely ROG would collect a lot more money by staying here given the tax he'll be collecting when he finishes up?

JoeyFantastic
23rd-September-2010, 14:21
Here's the article, interesting reading but purely speculation
though?

Daniel Carter ? 1,2 million...
Alors que les meilleurs ouvreurs mondiaux pourraient
rejoindre le Top 14 à l'issue de la Coupe du monde,
l'arrivée de Daniel Carter est estimée à 1,2 million annuel.
Pour Mourad Boudjellal, «la ligne blanche est franchie».

Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds, Australie), James Hook
(Ospreys, Galles), Matt Giteau (Brumbies, Australie),
Ronan O'Gara (Munster, Irlande) et bien sûr Dan Carter
(Crusaders, Nouvelle-Zélande) : le Top 14 pourrait bien
s'enrichir des meilleurs ouvreurs mondiaux, en fin de
contrat après cette saison, à l'issue de la Coupe du monde
en Nouvelle-Zélande. Après Jonny Wilkinson à Toulon et
Juan Martin Hernandez au Racing-Métro, le championnat
national le plus puissant et le plus riche au monde continue
d'attirer les plus grands noms de la planète ovale. Les
clubs du Top 14 pourront-ils répondre à une offre aussi
forte ?

Alors que les CV des plus grandes stars mondiales arrivent
déjà sur les bureaux des présidents français, la masse
salariale des joueurs étrangers pose problème. « 1,2
million pour Dan Carter avec un contrat de trois saisons.
Tout le monde est refroidi par le tarif, avoue le président
de Toulon, Mourad Boudjellal, dans les colonnes de
L'Equipe. Est-ce que c'est raisonnable ? »

Si le troisième-ligne du Racing-Métro, Sébastien Chabal,
perçoit 1 million par saison (droits à l'image compris), le
propriétaire du RCT estime « que dans l'économie actuelle
du rugby, la ligne blanche est franchie. » La raison pourrait
toutefois l'emporter, les meilleurs numéros 10 français
arrivant au terme de leur contrat en fin de saison : Lionel
Beauxis (Stade Français), Frédéric Michalak (Stade
Toulousain), David Skrela (Stade Toulousain), François
Trinh-Duc (Montpellier) et Damien Traille (Biarritz).

D'autres noms circulent pour rejoindre le Top 14 la saison
prochaine parmi lesquels Richie McCaw, Ma'a Nonu, Joe
Rokocoko, Shalk Burger, Victor Matfield, Rocky Elsom,
Pierre Spies.

fogerty
23rd-September-2010, 14:28
I'd settle for Carter.

ozoyo
23rd-September-2010, 14:30
Speculation, yes.

But l'Equipe have a lot of sources in clubs and other institutions, so when they talk about CVs circulating, it means that they litteraly are. Same for the figures, they definitely did not invent them, they were told.

The Outlaw
23rd-September-2010, 16:03
ROG appears today in an article from l'Equipe (which is usually quite serious about what they publish).

The article is about the best 10 in the world being interested by France (Carter, Wilko, Hook, Cooper, Gitteau and ROG.)

L'Equipe claims that ROG's CV is circulating in France at the moment and that he offers his services for a 400K€ / year.

Hook could go to USAP for 450K€ a year

Carter could earn up to 1200K€ if he goes to Toulouse or Racing

Giteau is currently looking for a spot and would be worth 800K€

L'Equipe's point is that French top 14 salaries are attracting a number of International stars. Currently Hernandez, Steyn and Wilko are paid between 750 and 1000K€ a year by their club.






best 10 in the world? Munster are safe enough

kahalui
23rd-September-2010, 16:21
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay big cash for him at this stage of his career?smileys/confused.gif

Downsouthdukin
23rd-September-2010, 16:25
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay
big cash for him at this stage of his
career?*smileys/confused.gif


There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this
stage

scotscor
23rd-September-2010, 16:27
I'd imagine it would interest him, he is no longer first choice in ireland. That ten year deal may be done away with at the next budget. He speaks French, wouldnt have to put up with playing Munster on a regular basis, would be a big challenge.
Funny though that Hook who is third choice in Wales and cant get his game at ten at the o's, is linked with a club. Rog is looking for a bite.
Would be sensible for him. If he went we would really be knocking down keatley's door

overthehillprop
23rd-September-2010, 16:34
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay

big cash for him at this stage of his

career?smileys/confused.gif





There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this

stage

not that I think he would go anyway due to the tax breaks here upon retirement but there was big money given to Felipe not so long ago to move to France with a long term contract as well - so I don't see why it wouldn't be a possibilty.

ozoyo
23rd-September-2010, 16:48
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay

big cash for him at this stage of his

career?smileys/confused.gif





There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this

stage

Where was Wilko before
going to Toulon? Completely off international rugby since the 2003 WC
final, playing for a club that had never won anything, too old and
always injured.

Any club would be blessed with a player of ROG's
talent, free of international pressure and ready to give it all for his
club.

kahalui
23rd-September-2010, 16:50
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay

big cash for him at this stage of his

career?smileys/confused.gif





There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this

stage

not that I think he would go anyway due to the tax breaks here upon retirement but there was big money given to Felipe not so long ago to move to France with a long term contract as well - so I don't see why it wouldn't be a possibilty.


Contemponi is slightly younger and has been there for 2 seasons already- thats the first difference.

kahalui
23rd-September-2010, 16:54
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay

big cash for him at this stage of his

career?smileys/confused.gif





There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this

stage

Where was Wilko before
going to Toulon? Completely off international rugby since the 2003 WC
final, playing for a club that had never won anything, too old and
always injured.

Any club would be blessed with a player of ROG's
talent, free of international pressure and ready to give it all for his
club.


Jonny wilkinson was something like 29/30 when he went to france. Huge difference.

overthehillprop
23rd-September-2010, 17:02
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay

big cash for him at this stage of his

career?smileys/confused.gif





There is no way a top 4 team in france would buy him at this

stage

not that I think he would go anyway due to the tax breaks here upon retirement but there was big money given to Felipe not so long ago to move to France with a long term contract as well - so I don't see why it wouldn't be a possibilty.


Contemponi is slightly younger and has been there for 2 seasons already- thats the first difference.


slightly younger - by a few months

and Felipe still has two years to run on his contract.

23rd-September-2010, 17:41
ROG would be mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health
wise would be a bad move.

davidos
23rd-September-2010, 17:53
Go ROG,

He owes us nothing and if he wants to make some cash, let
him be.

masterchief
23rd-September-2010, 18:14
he could always go for a year or two and then come back and
play "professional" club rugby for a year or two and then
retire and get the tax back...

Or am I wrong on that?

Angus Axe
23rd-September-2010, 18:20
ROG will retire from international duty after the world cup
next year, and I'm sure he's looking for a big cash contract
before he retires from the game. Best of luck to him, he's
given everything to Munster and Ireland, if he can get a nice
retirement fund in France, fair play

123UCG
23rd-September-2010, 18:22
I think they stopped the professional club thing after Shane byrne did it with Blackrock for a year

masterchief
23rd-September-2010, 18:41
I think they stopped the professional club
thing after Shane byrne did it with Blackrock for a year


Really?

The Outlaw
23rd-September-2010, 18:47
I think they stopped the professional club
thing after Shane byrne did it with Blackrock for a year


Really?



yep long gone

Harry
23rd-September-2010, 18:54
ROG will retire from international duty after the world cup

next year, and I'm sure he's looking for a big cash contract

before he retires from the game. Best of luck to him, he's

given everything to Munster and Ireland, if he can get a nice

retirement fund in France, fair play

agreed. He owes us nothing. Top servant to us, in the words of Dr Alban "It's My Life", he's a young family and everyone knows the Dublin media won't let him commentate because he hasn't had media coaching like Frankie or Quinnie. Better to take the 500k the lads will take 100 years to earn via media by going to france and having a sugar Daddy love him.

No Brainer.

Tobyglen
23rd-September-2010, 19:09
Much ado about nothing, ROG won't go nowhere, he will still earn big bucks here for another few years and he's at the twightlight of his career.

Waterfordlad
23rd-September-2010, 19:18
Fully agree - he'll stay put

MunsterMagic007
23rd-September-2010, 19:42
Surely it would be a good thing for Munster (& Ireland)if he leaves after the world cup, at this stage we need to be looking to bring someone through to replace him.

duckysauce
23rd-September-2010, 20:14
i would not wipe my arse with that paper with the crap they spread in the last world cup

youngmunster
24th-September-2010, 04:53
Kicking player/coach?

ustix
24th-September-2010, 04:57
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay big cash for him at this stage of his career?smileys/confused.gif

Jonny's doing alright over there...

Mcork
24th-September-2010, 05:27
ROG would be mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health
wise would be a bad move.





Like editBrock James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you know!

Hugonaut
24th-September-2010, 05:51
ROG would be mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health
wise would be a bad move.





Like Butch James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you know!

Are you taking the p¡ss? Butch James is a huge hitter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGl6YQR7mg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj7HNY5-fRc&feature=relat ed

Mcork
24th-September-2010, 06:05
ROG would be mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health
wise would be a bad move.





Like Butch James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you know!




Are you taking the p¡ss? Butch James is a huge hitter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGl6YQR7mg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj7HNY5-fRc&feature=relat ed






Sorry I meant Brock James of Clermont - keep getting the two mixed upsmileys/redface.gif

Mack the Knife
24th-September-2010, 06:47
Go its time we started building for the future.

jeepers
24th-September-2010, 06:59
Go its time we started building for the future.

A future where a 35 year old O'Gara has to leave Munster so that his replacement can get off the bench doesn't look too bright.

scart
24th-September-2010, 07:52
In a way i actually hope that ROG does go, might make some of the know it all critics around here realise exactly how blessed we are to have him, Ronan owes us absolutely nothing and he has earned a big payday.


I for one will be looking forward to the reaction 12 months later from all the fools who are calling for Warwick to be first choice 10!

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 08:12
Can't see him leaving - too old to get a contract that would offset what he'd lose in tax rebate.


But I think it would be a shame to see him go simply because he wasn't first choice any more.


I know people here have complained about "jobs for the boys" at Munster, but that's the way that rugby clubs have worked for generations. Older players that don't play 1st XV any more have always "given something back" by helping young players to come through.


Hence the fact that the average 3rd/4th XV is made up of young guys who are future first teamers, and older guys who used to play at that level and are now there to guide the young guys through. And start fights.


I know it's a professional world now, and people will complain about sentimentality, but in the commercial world you don't let people with years of expertise walk out without transferring that knowledge.


There should be succession planning for ROG taking place over this year and next, and ROG should be an integral part of it.


Someone like Keately in for the start of next season, with ROG seeing out his last couple of seasons post World Cup helping that player to develop, teaching him everything he knows and maybe playing A games to blood emergent 9's/10's.

John123
24th-September-2010, 08:17
If people can't see that this is a contract ploy ye're all blind. ROG is going nowhere as a result of the tax rebate, simple as.

Keatley is the way forward.

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 08:30
If people can't see that this is a contract ploy ye're all blind. ROG is going nowhere as a result of the tax rebate, simple as.

Keatley is the way forward.



Yep. Contract ploy. Rog has persuaded L'equipe to print an article speculating about the futures of a whole range of leading fly halves in order to give him some leverage.


This is a natural consequence of his well known cosy relationship with the French media.

ustix
24th-September-2010, 08:56
Go its time we started building for the future.
Scurriloussmileys/sad.gif

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 09:00
slightly younger - by a few months

and Felipe still has two years to run on his contract.



Plus the fact that Felipe has a very niche role to play. If you're going to pay Wilko that much money, then you need to pay someone else to run your back line.


Game managing 12's aren't growing on trees these days.

kahalui
24th-September-2010, 09:00
He'll be 34 soon. Why would a big club pay big cash for him at this stage of his career?smileys/confused.gif

Jonny's doing alright over there...


What does JW being signed for a french club have to do with anything? Do you think they're carbon copies of each other? JW was signed when he had age on his side- he was around 29/30.

I ve always been a big fan of rog. I think he's been a great servant for munster/ireland over the years but i dont think his best rugby playing years are ahead of him, thats all, and id be very surprised to see a big french club paying a lot cash for him at this stage in his career. Either way, id wish him the best in whatever he decided to do, be that, playing abroad or staying at munster.

Mack the Knife
24th-September-2010, 09:12
Go its time we started building for the future.Scurriloussmileys/sad.gif

My bad smileys/lol.gif

ustix
24th-September-2010, 09:40
Go its time we started building for the future.Scurriloussmileys/sad.gif



My bad smileys/lol.gif
Yes, you're bad alrightsmileys/wink.gif

bazzyg
24th-September-2010, 10:33
On the tax thing, can't he play abroad and so long as he plays pro back here again before he retires he is entitled to the tax reliefs.


I thought this was the case, I thought this is what shane byrne did.


Bring back Staunton.....he's the future.

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 10:40
On the tax thing, can't he play abroad and so long as he plays pro back here again before he retires he is entitled to the tax reliefs.


I thought this was the case, I thought this is what shane byrne did.


Bring back Staunton.....he's the future.





It used to be that they had to retire here. So Shane came back to Blackrock on a one year "contract" and then retired.


The ruling was tightened up after that. ROG would have to do his time there, and then come back and secure a full time provincial contract.


Between age, injury risk and all the rest, he'd have to be very optimistic to imagine that he could go out there for a year or two, come back and sign for a province.


There are two overseas windows for Irish pros, imo. The Ryan/Varley/Reddan "move to break through" move, and one we haven't seen yet- someone like Fitz or Earls taking a three year and looking to re-sign to a central contract in their late 20's.

jeepers
24th-September-2010, 10:47
On the tax thing, can't he play abroad and so long as he plays pro back here again before he retires he is entitled to the tax reliefs.


I thought this was the case, I thought this is what shane byrne did.


Bring back Staunton.....he's the future.





It used to be that they had to retire here. So Shane came back to Blackrock on a one year "contract" and then retired.


The ruling was tightened up after that. ROG would have to do his time there, and then come back and secure a full time provincial contract.


Between age, injury risk and all the rest, he'd have to be very optimistic to imagine that he could go out there for a year or two, come back and sign for a province.


There are two overseas windows for Irish pros, imo. The Ryan/Varley/Reddan "move to break through" move, and one we haven't seen yet- someone like Fitz or Earls taking a three year and looking to re-sign to a central contract in their late 20's.

Wouldn't Leo Cullen & Jennings fit into the re-sign category. What about Micko and Perp?

Just wondering - is Varley, Micko & Fla the only ones who re-signed with Munster after a stint somewhere else?

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 10:52
Wouldn't Leo Cullen & Jennings fit into the re-sign category. What about Micko and Perp?

Just wondering - is Varley, Micko & Fla the only ones who re-signed with Munster after a stint somewhere else?






Somewhere in between, I guess. I was talking about established internationals in their early 20's (Healy, Earls, Fitz etc) starting to look abroad.


Jennings and Cullen are an interesting comparator- established provincial players who've been fringe internationals.


All of our established central contract players have been Irish regulars, so it's a bit of a category to itself.


You could argue that Johnny O'Connor fits the Jennings/Cullen mode as well, I guess.


I can't think of a regular first team player for Munster who's gone anywhere, tbh.

Chrizzzie
24th-September-2010, 10:59
If people can't see that this is a contract ploy ye're all blind. ROG is going nowhere as a result of the tax rebate, simple as.

Keatley is the way forward.



I already hoped Munster would've signed Keatley for this season. He's a good kid but would need a few years to have his fill potential at Munster. It would give him time to gradually grow in the role.

Now probably he's thrown before the lions straight when he signs for Munster. (If he actually does.)

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 12:08
If people can't see that this is a contract ploy ye're all blind. ROG is going nowhere as a result of the tax rebate, simple as.

Keatley is the way forward.


I already hoped Munster would've signed Keatley for this season. He's a good kid but would need a few years to have his fill potential at Munster. It would give him time to gradually grow in the role.

Now probably he's thrown before the lions straight when he signs for Munster. (If he actually does.)



I understand he's turned down a Munster overture before, and he was right to. He should be looking to succeed ROG rather than understudy him.

Mack the Knife
24th-September-2010, 12:11
On the tax thing, can't he play abroad and so long as he plays pro back here again before he retires he is entitled to the tax reliefs.


I thought this was the case, I thought this is what shane byrne did.


Bring back Staunton.....he's the future.





It used to be that they had to retire here. So Shane came back to Blackrock on a one year "contract" and then retired.


The ruling was tightened up after that. ROG would have to do his time there, and then come back and secure a full time provincial contract.


Between age, injury risk and all the rest, he'd have to be very optimistic to imagine that he could go out there for a year or two, come back and sign for a province.


There are two overseas windows for Irish pros, imo. The Ryan/Varley/Reddan "move to break through" move, and one we haven't seen yet*- someone like Fitz or Earls taking a three year and looking to re-sign to a central contract in their late 20's.

I was talking to a fella in the Rob Roy at lunch time reckons its a done deal.
Hes off to Aviron Bayonnais at the end of the season €550k contract and then coming back and playing for Connacht and Cork Transport.

busbi
24th-September-2010, 13:55
I wouldn't doubt he's circulating C.V.s but i wouldn't automatically
jump to the conclusion that he's deciding to move on. He's spoken
fairly openly before about how he's always kept his options open and
gone for dinner with the SF owner once or twice to talk about a
possible move.

Anyone have a ballpark figure of how much the top guys like ROG
stand to make back in the Tax Relief? I think it could have a
provision to allow guys past a certain age still pick it up and head off
to France for a year or two. The point of it is to keep the players who
are in their prime here. After the WC, ROG and BOD will be nowhere
near theirs. What's the point in having them toil away here when
they're well past their best, or just have them retire when they could
spend a year or two in France or Australia? Something like that might
encourage the likes of Heaslip and Kearney to stay in Ireland during
their entire 20's with the carrot of a payday in the winter of their
careers.

It's something the IRFU could well be advised to push for as it seems
to me that some players, and no disrespect to them for doing so as
they are totally entitled, hang on well into their 30's acting as blocks
to younger guys coming through. Example - Girve hanging on in
Leinster. It's pot luck that Carr decided to give Connacht a chance
and develop his game there, he could still be playing AIL if he was in
Leinster or be gone off to the GP or Top 14.

buck65
24th-September-2010, 14:00
O Gara said after next season ie 2011/2012 he intends to retire. Maybe go to France as a kicking coach. Where's the problem exactly or the mystery for that matter.


Munster or Ireland won't exactly be paying big money then to keep him at home as he will be well past starting for either in a serious game when he's 35.

Balla Boy
24th-September-2010, 14:18
It's something the IRFU could well be advised to push for as it seems
to me that some players, and no disrespect to them for doing so as
they are totally entitled, hang on well into their 30's acting as blocks
to younger guys coming through. Example - Girve hanging on in
Leinster. It's pot luck that Carr decided to give Connacht a chance
and develop his game there, he could still be playing AIL if he was in
Leinster or be gone off to the GP or Top 14.





That "hanging on" notion is simplistic though. Good clubs, and by extension good professional set ups, need the input of guys on their way to retirement.


It's part of the cycle of learning-doing-teaching that underpins good clubs.


It's a fine line, but assuming that guys should be put out to pasture as soon as they're not at the top of their game any more is over simplifying matters.


You don't pour years of training and development into a guy and then shuffle him out the door as soon as he slows down.


Look at the value that Catt has provided for LI in the twilight of his career, as a player, then a bit part player and now as a coach.


These guys are the repositories of club culture, approach and experience.

bazzyg
24th-September-2010, 15:00
I was talking to a fella in the Rob Roy at lunch time reckons its a done deal.
Hes off to Aviron Bayonnais at the end of the season €550k contract and then coming back and playing for Connacht and Cork Transport.


well if a bloke down pub said it , it must be true.

24th-September-2010, 17:28
ROG would be
mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be
a bad move.


*


Like
edit*</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/
COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish
supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you
know!

The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's
perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be
people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big
mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally
suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to
target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid
bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his
later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the
most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the
options.

jeepers
24th-September-2010, 21:46
ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.



�



Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)
ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)

There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.

Patman
24th-September-2010, 22:03
TBH, I haven't read through the whole thread but be
assured, ROG will head to France (or elsewhere) after the
the 2011 RWC and who could blame him.

If he helps win us another HEC in the meantime, how bad
but what more could he have ever done for Munster.

G'wan ROG ya f**king legend.

busbi
24th-September-2010, 22:24
Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to
make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done
Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester.

Just to clarify, that's not what i'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that
players in the twilight of their career shouldn't be handcuffed to finishing
their career in Ireland at the expense of a year or two abroad if they so
wish.

kahalui
24th-September-2010, 23:13
ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.



�



Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">
There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.



That stat you've highlighted is unfair on Warwick. Maybe, to add some balance to the argument, you could post the amount of attempts at goal they've both had? We've been awarded more pens in the last 2 games than the first 2, so its not really all that surprising that rog has scored more points, is it?

jeepers
25th-September-2010, 08:16
ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.



�



Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">
There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.



That stat you've highlighted is unfair on Warwick. Maybe, to add some balance to the argument, you could post the amount of attempts at goal they've both had? We've been awarded more pens in the last 2 games than the first 2, so its not really all that surprising that rog has scored more points, is it?


The point of the exercise is that contrary to a lot of people's opinion here, Munster do better with O'Gara at 10 and is ahead of Warwick on merit. As to being unfair towards Warwick - he has had double</span> the game time that ROG has and he also has had a preseason which evens it up a bit. Part of the reason why Munster may win more penalties has to have something to do with O'Gara's control of the game where the opposition give away kickable penalties. Munster's defence didn't deteorate a huge amount - I can't recall if anyone (not even Ospreys) seemed to target his weak defense - but if they did, it didn't really work.

ustix
25th-September-2010, 09:50
I spotted ROG defending manfully at least three times in the course of the Ospreys outing.

Breadscrum
25th-September-2010, 11:42
In his book ROG talks affectionately about French Rugby so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he went over there from a career perspective but has anyone considered that he has a young family, with kids that would be around school starting age by the time that deal would rollaround? Don't know how keen he would be to upheave his kids to France? Just a thought!

Jack B
25th-September-2010, 12:07
Can't see him going anywhere to be honest. The money only counts for so much, as was said, uprooting the family and finding a new home abroad etc sounds a bit much at this stage. I'm sure he isn't on peanuts at Munster anyway.

kahalui
25th-September-2010, 12:10
ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.



�



Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">
There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.



That stat you've highlighted is unfair on Warwick. Maybe, to add some balance to the argument, you could post the amount of attempts at goal they've both had? We've been awarded more pens in the last 2 games than the first 2, so its not really all that surprising that rog has scored more points, is it?


The point of the exercise is that contrary to a lot of people's opinion here, Munster do better with O'Gara at 10 and is ahead of Warwick on merit. As to being unfair towards Warwick - he has had double</span> the game time that ROG has and he also has had a preseason which evens it up a bit. Part of the reason why Munster may win more penalties has to have something to do with O'Gara's control of the game where the opposition give away kickable penalties. Munster's defence didn't deteorate a huge amount - I can't recall if anyone (not even Ospreys) seemed to target his weak defense - but if they did, it didn't really work.





First of all, im delighted to see rog/warwick playing well, as they both represent munster rugby.

Did you watch rog in the ML last year? What was his kicking at goal like? Jeepers, OHs have good days and bad. Just because he has kicked reasonably well at goal in his first 2 games, doesnt mean he's had a great season, nor does it mean Warwick has been playing badly- which you're suggesting.

..as for rogs control of the game- are you trying to say Os were giving away pens in the second half every 2 mins because rog 'controls' and 'manages the game' like no other?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif ... our forwards dominating the breakdown is why the Os conceded so many pens.

I just hope you post your opinion when rog has a bad day at the office and W

The Outlaw
25th-September-2010, 12:38
I wouldn't doubt he's circulating C.V.s but i wouldn't automatically
jump to the conclusion that he's deciding to move on. He's spoken
fairly openly before about how he's always kept his options open and
gone for dinner with the SF owner once or twice to talk about a
possible move.

Anyone have a ballpark figure of how much the top guys like ROG
stand to make back in the Tax Relief? I think it could have a
provision to allow guys past a certain age still pick it up and head off
to France for a year or two. The point of it is to keep the players who
are in their prime here. After the WC, ROG and BOD will be nowhere
near theirs. What's the point in having them toil away here when
they're well past their best, or just have them retire when they could
spend a year or two in France or Australia? Something like that might
encourage the likes of Heaslip and Kearney to stay in Ireland during
their entire 20's with the carrot of a payday in the winter of their
careers.

It's something the IRFU could well be advised to push for as it seems
to me that some players, and no disrespect to them for doing so as
they are totally entitled, hang on well into their 30's acting as blocks
to younger guys coming through. Example - Girve hanging on in
Leinster. It's pot luck that Carr decided to give Connacht a chance
and develop his game there, he could still be playing AIL if he was in
Leinster or be gone off to the GP or Top 14.


Over a 10 year period. Assuming he was earning at least 120-150k basic salary. In the region of about 450k. Probably on the conservative side.


He must have 10 year done by now. You must be tax resident here in the year you claim it and you must cease playing here. He could go for 2 years and come back and get a 12 month contract with Connacht or something. Wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility.


However the likes of Heaslip can Co can play 5 years in Ireland go abroad for 2 and go back and resume in Ireland- finish out the 5 years and then claim it. And they will avail of this.


However the reliefcould be scrapped over the next few budgets especially if FF are out of office.. Especially if Labour are involved. I'd put money on it.

25th-September-2010, 19:03
In terms of Busbi's comments about age etc, to be honest by
the time a player is 30/31 we should have ideas about future
options, by the time they're 32 we should be phasing them out
and replacement in over a period of 1-2 seasons so by the
time they're 34 they're not so vital. The problem is always
going to be that coaches don't always have 5 seasons to do
that, they inherit a squad and have to years to succeed so
long term goes out the window and you tie yourself totally to
the older guys.

busbi
25th-September-2010, 20:02
Anyone have a ballpark
figure of how much the top guys like ROG stand to make back in the
Tax Relief?


Over a 10 year period. Assuming he was earning at least 120-
150k basic salary. In the region of about 450k. Probably on the
conservative side.


He must have 10 year done by now. You must be tax resident
here in the year you claim it and you must cease playing here. He
could go for 2 years and come back and get a 12 month contract with
Connacht or something. Wouldn't be beyond the realms of
possibility.


A two year contract for 800'000 to a million, which is in the region of
what he's looking for, could nearly cancel it out so you'd imagine.
Getting a two year contract would be the thing though.

Quailman
25th-September-2010, 20:08
Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Not to get too Logan's Run about it, but there is a case to be made that says player development is helped by the older generations leaving.

The nature of sport being a results based business means that coaches will always choose the experienced 'older' player over the young tyro unless there is a significant difference in quality. The concern is then that the young players don't get the opportunities to play and reach their potential.

One of the reasons the Kiwis bring through so many players is that, particularly at Super rugby level, they have to. The top players generally stay, but there is a constant exodus of the next tier to Europe or Japan, so guys have to front up.

That isn't to say great older players should be discarded, look at the job Brad Thorn is doing as a 35 year old, but too often guys in the NH stay beyond their sell-by date. The key example now I would say is Shane Horgan, if he was a Kiwi he probably would have left the Islands when he lost his Ireland place a couple of years back, then a young guy would have been forced to step up, however he signed a new Leinster contract (with his wages applying pressure to selectors), kept on playing despite the fact he is getting worse and worse, and a few prospects left.

Quailman
25th-September-2010, 20:13
A two year contract for 800'000 to a million, which is in the region of

what he's looking for, could nearly cancel it out so you'd imagine.

Getting a two year contract would be the thing though.


Some of the French clubs are flush with cash, but they do have a salary cap, and unless he was to leave us right after the RWC (when I assume he would still be in contract) he would be leaving as a 35 year old. On his day, ROG can still be excellent, but he is becoming increasingly inconsistent with age, and I find it difficult to believe a club would spend so much on a guy who would finish out a two year contract as a 37 year old.

jeepers
25th-September-2010, 20:23
[QUOTE=Evil Omer]ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.
�


Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">
There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.



That stat you've highlighted is unfair on Warwick. Maybe, to add some balance to the argument, you could post the amount of attempts at goal they've both had? We've been awarded more pens in the last 2 games than the first 2, so its not really all that surprising that rog has scored more points, is it?


The point of the exercise is that contrary to a lot of people's opinion here, Munster do better with O'Gara at 10 and is ahead of Warwick on merit. As to being unfair towards Warwick - he has had double</span> the game time that ROG has and he also has had a preseason which evens it up a bit. Part of the reason why Munster may win more penalties has to have something to do with O'Gara's control of the game where the opposition give away kickable penalties. Munster's defence didn't deteorate a huge amount - I can't recall if anyone (not even Ospreys) seemed to target his weak defense - but if they did, it didn't really work.


First of all, im delighted to see rog/warwick playing well, as they both represent munster rugby.

Did you watch rog in the ML last year? What was his kicking at goal like? Jeepers, OHs have good days and bad. Just because he has kicked reasonably well at goal in his first 2 games, doesnt mean he's had a great season, nor does it mean Warwick has been playing badly- which you're suggesting.

..as for rogs control of the game- are you trying to say Os were giving away pens in the second half every 2 mins because rog 'controls' and 'manages the game' like no other?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif ... our forwards dominating the breakdown is why the Os conceded so many pens.

I just hope you post your opinion when rog has a bad day at the office and Warwick pla

jeepers
25th-September-2010, 20:37
Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Not to get too Logan's Run about it, but there is a case to be made that says player development is helped by the older generations leaving.

The nature of sport being a results based business means that coaches will always choose the experienced 'older' player over the young tyro unless there is a significant difference in quality. The concern is then that the young players don't get the opportunities to play and reach their potential.

One of the reasons the Kiwis bring through so many players is that, particularly at Super rugby level, they have to. The top players generally stay, but there is a constant exodus of the next tier to Europe or Japan, so guys have to front up.

That isn't to say great older players should be discarded, look at the job Brad Thorn is doing as a 35 year old, but too often guys in the NH stay beyond their sell-by date. The key example now I would say is Shane Horgan, if he was a Kiwi he probably would have left the Islands when he lost his Ireland place a couple of years back, then a young guy would have been forced to step up, however he signed a new Leinster contract (with his wages applying pressure to selectors), kept on playing despite the fact he is getting worse and worse, and a few prospects left.


Isn't Shane Horgan a half kiwi (his father is a kiwi I think) smileys/biggrin.gif

The only reason any of those older guys are leaving NZ is for a big paycheck and to experience a different culture. Why would Horgan leave Leinster when he lost his Ireland place if he was offered a contract? Leinster would be a sought after club (i.e., Hines, Nacewa, Berne, Holwell, Rocky, Ollie le Roux, CJ etc. etc).

I think you expect a lot of sacrifice from these guys!

kahalui
25th-September-2010, 23:19
[QUOTE=Mcork]

[QUOTE=Evil Omer]ROG would be

mercilessly targeted in French rugby, health wise would be

a bad move.
�


Like

edit�</font>[COLOR=#ff0000]Brock[/

COLOR] James for example - guy couldn't tackle a fish

supper. Not every OH tackles like Carter/Wilkinson you

know!



The point wasn't his tackling being weak or not, he's

perceived to be defensively suspect and there will be

people lining up to have a pop at the big reputation, big

mouth who is perceived to be physically weak and mentally

suspect. Too much baggage, people would be looking to

target him. To be honest he could go to Italy and get paid

bags for their sides or go to England and be a star in his

later years for his ability to control a game. Why go to the

most physical and unremittingly spitefully nasty of the

options.

Comparing ROG with Warwick so far this season.

From Magners site:

Warwick (213 mins playing) 19pts (munster total pts 49 - conceed 33pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">ROG (103 mins playing) 45pts (munster total pts 65 - conceed 39pts)</span><br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">
There is a video interview with Warwick by Frankie S. on the Indo website where Warwick says he sees himself as a No. 10 rather than a 15 and that he hopes to push ROG for the Munster 10 shirt.

Busbi is suggesting that anyone over the age of 29 should clear out to make life easier for the likes of Carr etc. It doesn't seem to have done Johne Murphy any harm spending a few years with Leicester. If you make it too easy for them, when the going gets tough, they won't be up for it.

Warwick said in the interview that a major shock to his system was the work rate of the Munster lads and completely different to what he has experienced before. Its the older lads like ROG who set that standard and one of the type of reasons why its a good idea the hold onto some maturing players.



That stat you've highlighted is unfair on Warwick. Maybe, to add some balance to the argument, you could post the amount of attempts at goal they've both had? We've been awarded more pens in the last 2 games than the first 2, so its not really all that surprising that rog has scored more points, is it?


The point of the exercise is that contrary to a lot of people's opinion here, Munster do better with O'Gara at 10 and is ahead of Warwick on merit. As to being unfair towards Warwick - he has had double</span> the game time that ROG has and he also has had a preseason which evens it up a bit. Part of the reason why Munster may win more penalties has to have something to do with O'Gara's control of the game where the opposition give away kickable penalties. Munster's defence didn't deteorate a huge amount - I can't recall if anyone (not even Ospreys) seemed to target his weak defense - but if they did, it didn't really work.


First of all, im delighted to see rog/warwick playing well, as they both represent munster rugby.

Did you watch rog in the ML last year? What was his kicking at goal like? Jeepers, OHs have good days and bad. Just because he has kicked reasonably well at goal in his first 2 games, doesnt mean he's had a great season, nor does it mean Warwick has been playing badly- which you're suggesting.

..as for rogs control of the game- are you trying to say Os were giving away pens in the second half every 2 mins because rog 'controls' and 'manages the game' like no other?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif ... our forwards dominating the breakdown is why the Os conceded so many pens.

I just hope you post your opinion when rog has a bad day at the offic

Hellboy
26th-September-2010, 04:39
A two year contract for 800'000 to a million, which is in the region of

what he's looking for, could nearly cancel it out so you'd imagine.

Getting a two year contract would be the thing though.


Some of the French clubs are flush with cash, but they do have a salary cap, and unless he was to leave us right after the RWC (when I assume he would still be in contract) he would be leaving as a 35 year old. On his day, ROG can still be excellent, but he is becoming increasingly inconsistent with age, and I find it difficult to believe a club would spend so much on a guy who would finish out a two year contract as a 37 year old.

Salary cap is new here in France.
And for the moment, it's higher than the salary budget of the richests clubs. smileys/lol.gif
(8,2 M€, when the richest clubs pay less than 8 M€ )
That will decrease year after year.

Great 10s are very rare, especially in France (imagine we only have Trinh-Duc smileys/redface.gifsmileys/redface.gifsmileys/redface.gif or sugar-babe Michalak aka the nurses lover) I saw Mehrtens at 36 and 37 doing the job pretty well in Top 14 (now at 38 is in 3rd division in Beziers).

So even at 35, a Ronan O'Gara can make it with the pink floyds under Cheika's management.

bosh12
26th-September-2010, 04:52
Outlaw 450k is exceptionally conservative. Double it.

Recession hasn't been too kind to some of players investments, and with
later phases of NAMA maybe some unwanted publicity. Few careers
made a bit longer I d say