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View Full Version : Borlase to play for ireland your views?



roryh878
11th-September-2010, 09:12
munster prop peter borlase has said if the move goes well he wants to play for ireland ,,


your views..?

ustix
11th-September-2010, 09:20
ustix says No

Kerry-Exile
11th-September-2010, 09:22
He hasn't played for Munster yet, this threads a bit premature

soccer rules
11th-September-2010, 09:27
i think in his games so far he has been very solid, our scrum has held up well, not retreating once, he has made no mistakes with his lineout work and he has not been turned over once with ball in hand.


i can't see one reason why he wont make it on the irish team

mr chips
11th-September-2010, 09:51
i think in his games so far he has been very solid, our scrum has held up well, not retreating once, he has made no mistakes with his lineout work and he has not been turned over once with ball in hand.


i can't see one reason why he wont make it on the irish team
Indeed. In fact he didn't get a single warning from the ref last night, let alone concede a penalty or receive a yellow card. Didn't knock the ball on either, and didn't miss any tackles.
On the minus side, we've played two games in the ML so far this season and he hasn't scored a single try for us yet. Boo-urns!

manofmunster
11th-September-2010, 10:36
i think in his games so far he has been very solid, our scrum has held up well, not retreating once, he has made no mistakes with his lineout work and he has not been turned over once with ball in hand.


i can't see one reason why he wont make it on the irish team



Indeed. In fact he didn't get a single warning from the ref last night, let alone concede a penalty or receive a yellow card. Didn't knock the ball on either, and didn't miss any tackles.
On the minus side, we've played two games in the ML so far this season and he hasn't scored a single try for us yet. Boo-urns!



smileys/lol.gif


If Borlase comes and makes an impression then I'd be delighted to see him represent Ireland. Mushy's recent progress aside, it one area we've really struggled with in recent seasons.

jmccoy
11th-September-2010, 12:17
Does anyone know if he has Irish roots ?

Piquet
11th-September-2010, 13:06
As posted herehere (http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25809&PN=0&TPN=6) he seems to be hoping to go down the naturalised route.

McCloud
11th-September-2010, 20:55
RO'G and Frankie S say no.

seanp
11th-September-2010, 21:03
now now now now now now now now now nwo now now now


???????????????????????????????????????


oooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Let him play 1st please

McCloud
11th-September-2010, 21:06
munster prop peter borlase has said if
the move goes well he wants to play for ireland ,,


your views..?
What's your view?

roryh878
12th-September-2010, 04:58
my view is that ive seen this guy on videos and hes well able , very physical and good scrumagger.. hes been brught over by the irfu as a project player , and can play for ireland on residence eligibility rules, if he stays long enough.





Unfortunately , guys like warwick and mafi cant play for ireland because they have represented Australia 7s and New-Zealand 7s Respectively.





unless they change the rule. !!

LLCOOLJ14
12th-September-2010, 10:10
Id rather we dont do this project guys thing anymore....Id rather we struck to homegrown players or guys who grew up feeling Irish as they have direct routes.


IF that makes us less competitive from time to time,then so be it. Its my national team and I dont go there wanting "better" players playing if they aint Irish. We have the club game for that.

Drahcir
12th-September-2010, 10:38
Id rather we dont do this project guys thing anymore....Id rather we struck to homegrown players or guys who grew up feeling Irish as they have direct routes.


IF that makes us less competitive from time to time,then so be it. Its my national team and I dont go there wanting "better" players playing if they aint Irish. We have the club game for that.

I agree. I mean even guys like Boss and Court who have grannies is pushing it a bit IMO.

I'd like to see the naturalised route be increased to 7 years or one of your parents must be Irish.

International rugby is that for a reason, you're meant to represent your own country, not a country you've done a stint in for 3 years.

spud686
12th-September-2010, 11:52
I'm going to get shot down for this but what the hell,


I don't remember there being any issue with nationality<S&#079;NG> </S&#079;NG>duing Euro 88 -Italia 90 or any part of the Jack Charlton era. I might be wrong though ;-)

Munsterboy
12th-September-2010, 12:00
I'm going to get shot down for this
but what the hell,


I don't remember there being any issue with
nationality&lt;SONG&gt; &lt;/SONG&gt;duing Euro 88 -*Italia 90 or
any part of the Jack Charlton era. I might be wrong though
;-)

Didn't all those lads have at least an Irish granny though?

Think it's the project player thing people have an issue with
i.e. somebody with no Irish connections who's brought over
with the specific objective of eventually qualifying for the
country through residence.

I'm not a big fan of it myself and I think the IRFU should at
least count them as NIQs up until they actually qualify.

Bosco
12th-September-2010, 12:09
All except Cascarinosmileys/lol.gif

supiebrian
13th-September-2010, 20:18
I'm going to get shot down for this
but what the hell,



I don't remember there being any issue with
nationality&lt;SONG&gt; &lt;/SONG&gt;duing Euro 88 -Italia 90 or
any part of the Jack Charlton era. I might be wrong though
;-)




Didn't all those lads have at least an Irish granny though?

Think it's the project player thing people have an issue with
i.e. somebody with no Irish connections who's brought over
with the specific objective of eventually qualifying for the
country through residence.

I'm not a big fan of it myself and I think the IRFU should at
least count them as NIQs up until they actually qualify.


Would agree with the majority of people on here who suggest some kind of stricter ruling around qualification should apply. A parent, or residence for 7 years seems reasonable.


As for the Euro 88 and Italia 90 stuff, I think the point is valid, and you only have to listen to the likes of Townsend, and his; we did this, and we did thattype comments,whenwhen he doeshis punditryon England games for ITV.


He along with Cascarino, Phil Babb, and a few othersare all English, which is ok however personally I think we are pushing it when we rely on "the granny" rule.

treatycity1
14th-September-2010, 03:06
if he stays long enough to be eligible and he is good enough then play him. it's not as if we have coverage in depth for these positions at international level, and he might just be an asset when our own lads are injured.

inglorious
14th-September-2010, 06:22
If he is good enough, why not?

Fachtna Cewa
14th-September-2010, 06:48
I think that their might be an Irish grandmother in there somewhere but I think Stephen Ireland killed her.

Magsy
14th-September-2010, 07:07
No.

Balla Boy
14th-September-2010, 07:16
Difficult to tell purely on whether someone has relatives or has lived here long enough.


What I'd be looking for is their level of commitment. If someone comes here to play for a province, gets married, settles, has kids that are Irish etc then I'd have no issue with them playing for Ireland.


Essentially, you'd want people representing the team who are genuinely invested in the country, whatever their original origin.


Not sure how you regulate for that though.

Fachtna Cewa
14th-September-2010, 07:36
*


Difficult to tell purely on whether someone has relatives or has lived here long enough.


What I'd be looking for is their level of commitment. If someone comes here to play for a province, gets married, settles, has kids that are Irish etc then I'd have no issue with them playing for Ireland.


Essentially, you'd want people representing the team who are genuinely invested in the country, whatever their original origin.


Not sure how you regulate for that though.

This.

I'd have no problem with Warwick playing for Ireland if he was eligible. I wouldn't like to see the practice become too prevalent, and maybe some quota system should be involved, but as Balla says if the player in question is invested in the country I don’t thinks it’s necessarily a bad thing.

statesman88
14th-September-2010, 08:08
Wait and see what he does with Munster,but my guess is he'll go good.Hes a strong,tough,fit athlete who by all accounts has pretty much gambled away any chance of being an All Black by coming over to Munster so surely thats a sign hes giving his shift/commitment to Ireland some in depth thought wouldn't you say or am i off the page here?

Luimneach
14th-September-2010, 08:29
Id rather we dont do this project guys thing anymore....Id rather we struck to homegrown players or guys who grew up feeling Irish as they have direct routes.


IF that makes us less competitive from time to time,then so be it. Its my national team and I dont go there wanting "better" players playing if they aint Irish. We have the club game for that.

How much better IRFU 's money could have been spend on developing the game at grass roots level and spreading the game to non traditional Rugby areas in Leinster Ulster and connaught instead of building a flash new landstown stadium. If this was done in a managed way maybe we would not need any international in our provinces or at national level.

mtcmolloy
15th-September-2010, 20:57
f**k him . he's a journeyman. let him play for his homeland.
then again, i'm a puritan on this issue.. and would like munster to be a representative side. ..

i'll take substance over style, bottle over paychecks, any frikkin day of the week. To play for ireland, you must be irish.

I regard with great pride that england have resorted to this BS in this day and age, while ireland, by and large, have not.

Agree re: tom court/isaac boss et al. That slew of foreign ex cons we had in the 90s was a sad reflection of the lowest point in irish rugby history. Let's not go back there.

Think national pride.. i wouldn't mind ireland becoming a example setter on this. the shoving up the collective as ses of england/oz/nz.

kahalui
15th-September-2010, 22:33
The fact people are already seeing him in an irish shirt painfully highlights our lack of quality front row (esp TH props) options at national level.

B.A.
16th-September-2010, 09:48
f**k him . he's a journeyman. let him play for his homeland.
then again, i'm a puritan on this issue.. and would like munster to be a representative side. ..

i'll take substance over style, bottle over paychecks, any frikkin day of the week. To play for ireland, you must be irish.

I regard with great pride that england have resorted to this BS in this day and age, while ireland, by and large, have not.

Agree re: tom court/isaac boss et al. That slew of foreign ex cons we had in the 90s was a sad reflection of the lowest point in irish rugby history. Let's not go back there.

Think national pride.. i wouldn't mind ireland becoming a example setter on this. the shoving up the collective as ses of england/oz/nz.



Where do you stand on ROG and formerly Frankie Shehan playing for Ireland?

Mebawsa Ritchie
16th-September-2010, 10:01
<s&#111;ng>Christian Saverimutto was from Bodykesmileys/lol.gif</s&#111;ng></span>

manofmunster
16th-September-2010, 10:08
What I'd be looking for is their level of commitment. If someone comes here to play for a province, gets married, settles, has kids that are Irish etc then I'd have no issue with them playing for Ireland.


Essentially, you'd want people representing the team who are genuinely invested in the country, whatever their original origin.


Not sure how you regulate for that though.





Good point balla and I think that - to a certain extent - the current system already goes some way towards assuring this.


If Borlase ever pulls on a green jersey he'll already have spent a minimum of three years in Ireland and in that time will have presumably settled into a community, perhaps formed a relationship/had kids etc etc.


If he wishes to continue playing for Ireland he'll most likely have to remain in the country in order to be considered eligible - I know there's no hard and fast rule on this but it's how the thing's been run for the last 10+ years ... just ask Mike Ross, Bob Casey etc etc.

manofmunster
16th-September-2010, 10:11
f**k him . he's a journeyman.



Hmm - perhaps a little early to label him a Journeyman ..... smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

Balla Boy
16th-September-2010, 10:25
f**k him . he's a journeyman.



Hmm - perhaps a little early to label him a Journeyman ..... smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





In the parlance of Munsterfans, a journeyman is anyone who arrives in Munster having not broken the All Black's try scoring record.


Witness the "not good enough for us" reactions to the signings of Halstead and Tipoki.


Ideally, this opinion should be formed without ever seeing said player lace up a pair of boots.

statesman88
16th-September-2010, 10:29
Cant wait for him to get here and carve your narrow minded simple terms crap to bits mtcmolloy.......a journeyman haha anyone would think you've played a 100 games in the green jersey ya self?


MOD EDIT: Any chance you could be a bit more, er, statesmanlike?

eyeforagap
16th-September-2010, 10:54
Wait and see what he does with Munster,but my guess is he'll go good.Hes a strong,tough,fit athlete who by all accounts has pretty much gambled away any chance of being an All Black by coming over to Munster so surely thats a sign hes giving his shift/commitment to Ireland some in depth thought wouldn't you say or am i off the page here?





I disagree, there is no way that any new zealander who had the potential to play for the ABs would jepordise that by moving abroad, im guessing he's just not good enough to play for them and I dont want him playing for Ireland - no matter how good he is.


While I agree with a certain amount of foreign players playing here, the rush to sign foreign props (this applies to all provinces - more recently leinster), when a prop gets injured is crazy. Very little opportunity for young irishprops with potentialto get high level game time to aid their development. Any young irish prop worth their salt is better off going to England / France to get game time and experience rather than staying here and basically playing AIL.


How many irish props have broken into the leinster / munster / ulster teamsin recent years? Here's hoping Timmy Ryan has a good season at Newcastle!

Balla Boy
16th-September-2010, 10:59
I disagree, there is no way that any new zealander who had the potential to play for the ABs would jepordise that by moving abroad, im guessing he's just not good enough to play for them and I dont want him playing for Ireland - no matter how good he is.


While I agree with a certain amount of foreign players playing here, the rush to sign foreign props (this applies to all provinces - more recently leinster), when a prop gets injured is crazy. Very little opportunity for young irishprops with potentialto get high level game time to aid their development. Any young irish prop worth their salt is better off going to England / France to get game time and experience rather than staying here and basically playing AIL.


How many irish props have broken into the leinster / munster / ulster teamsin recent years? Here's hoping Timmy Ryan has a good season at Newcastle!





WW,


You could just as easily flip that question on its head - how many have been good enough to break through?


The persistance with Buckley would seem to indicate that there's no lack of willingness to back emerging props.


Hurley has been injured, and is now hopefully on the road to establishing himself.


But I don't see anyone - Ryan included - that you could argue was overlooked.


Court went overseas, got game time, went well, came back and discovered that he still wasn't up to the mark.

eyeforagap
16th-September-2010, 11:10
WW,


You could just as easily flip that question on its head - how many have been good enough to break through?


The persistance with Buckley would seem to indicate that there's no lack of willingness to back emerging props.


Hurley has been injured, and is now hopefully on the road to establishing himself.


But I don't see anyone - Ryan included - that you could argue was overlooked.


Court went overseas, got game time, went well, came back and discovered that he still wasn't up to the mark.





[/QUOTE]


Fair point Balla, at the same time I think that to establish whether a player is any good involves giving him game time.Loan deals could bea solution. With only 4 provincial teams and plenty of imports there is very little opportunity.

ciaranb
16th-September-2010, 11:31
Personally, I think the whole debate is wholly premature. How anyone can make preconceptions about the guy and his ability in a Munster shirt when he hasn't even set foot on Irish soil yet escapes me. I can understand the anticipation however to character assisinate the chap before he pulls on a Munster shirt (e.g. branding him a 'journeyman') is a tad bit harsh (and by a 'tad' I mean totally). The fact is; he's a new Munster player due to arrive soon. Perhaps the backing of the supporters would make him feel welcome and help him settle quickly into the fold which is most important for Munster Rugby. By saying that he has a long term goal of representing Ireland (unless this is some clever spin doctoring) he has shown that he wants to commit time in Ireland - this should mean that he will be willing to buy into the Munster ethos / myth etc and can only be a positive addition to the Province. Furthermore, I think the argument of the National side playing only Irish born players is perhaps too idyllic! The facts are that lads can qualify to play for countries based on residency and unless we embrace that in Ireland, we will be left behind the major teams in World rugby. If it's good enough for NZ, SA, Aus, Eng, Wales, Scotland, Italy etc. it should be good enough for us! So what if a player like Borlase is not good enough for NZ, if he is the solution to a problem the Irish team has - then he can steady the ship there ifis he is good enough and we know we have the players in other positions to compete with the best!

Mebawsa Ritchie
16th-September-2010, 11:39
Personally, I think the whole debate is wholly premature. How anyone can make preconceptions about the guy and his ability in a Munster shirt when he hasn't even set foot on Irish soil yet escapes me.....

Spot on smileys/thumb-up.gif

manofmunster
16th-September-2010, 12:00
Personally, I think the whole debate is wholly premature. How anyone can make preconceptions about the guy and his ability in a Munster shirt when he hasn't even set foot on Irish soil yet escapes me. I can understand the anticipation however to character assisinate the chap before he pulls on a Munster shirt (e.g. branding him a 'journeyman') is a tad bit harsh (and by a 'tad' I mean totally). The fact is; he's a new Munster player due to arrive soon. Perhaps the backing of the supporters would make him feel welcome and help him settle quickly into the fold which is most important for Munster Rugby. By saying that he has a long term goal of representing Ireland (unless this is some clever spin doctoring) he has shown that he wants to commit time in Ireland - this should mean that he will be willing to buy into the Munster ethos / myth etc and can only be a positive addition to the Province. Furthermore, I think the argument of the National side playing only Irish born players is perhaps too idyllic! The facts are that lads can qualify to play for countries based on residency and unless we embrace that in Ireland, we will be left behind the major teams in World rugby. If it's good enough for NZ, SA, Aus, Eng, Wales, Scotland, Italy etc. it should be good enough for us! So what if a player like Borlase is not good enough for NZ, if he is the solution to a problem the Irish team has - then he can steady the ship there ifis he is good enough and we know we have the players in other positions to compete with the best!


I'd agree with most of that. Personally I'm looking forward to his arrival andhoping the guy comes in and makes a big impact. It'll provide good competition for Buckley ...Hayes' star is on the wane now and we need options int his position.


If he makes an impact and shows the commitment and desire to play for Ireland then good on him!

manofmunster
16th-September-2010, 12:02
f**k him . he's a journeyman.



Hmm - perhaps a little early to label him a Journeyman ..... smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





In the parlance of Munsterfans, a journeyman is anyone who arrives in Munster having not broken the All Black's try scoring record.


Witness the "not good enough for us" reactions to the signings of Halstead and Tipoki.


Ideally, this opinion should be formed without ever seeing said player lace up a pair of boots.





smileys/lol.gif


Some of the stuuf said about Rua at the time was priceless - and we all know how his first season here finished up.IfBorlase turns out to be half the player that rua was for us then he'll have been a very astute signing indeed!

doochbagg
16th-September-2010, 14:01
Robbie Diack playing for Ulster will be eligible to play for Ireland by the end of the season.

Call999
16th-September-2010, 14:18
Robbie Diack playing for Ulster will be eligible to play for Ireland by the end of the season.


Thats nice, but is that something we'd want?

mtcmolloy
16th-September-2010, 14:24
[QUOTE=mtcmolloy]


/QUOTE]

Where do you stand on ROG and formerly Frankie Shehan playing for Ireland?



fine. Irish parents. Lived here since tot-hood.

doochbagg
16th-September-2010, 14:53
why not, why do you think NZ are so strong, they pluck all the talent from the south sea islands. If someone is good enough and they want to play for Ireland and will make the international team better, I don´t see any problem.

Jesus, we didn´t have any problem when Jack Charlton recruited suspiciously un-Irish players from England, whats the problem now. We´re a small country with 4 main sports competing for our youngsters. Any quality player who has served his 3 years residency and wants to play for Ireland, I say ¨welcome

canine
16th-September-2010, 14:58
And another stupid thread

shep
16th-September-2010, 15:45
And another stupid thread


Why not just ignore the thread, instead of leaving a comment on every thread that you have nothing to contribute to!

mtcmolloy
17th-September-2010, 06:13
why not, why do you think NZ are so strong, they pluck all the talent from the south sea islands. - by and large they don't get people coming just to play rugby when they are already 20something. Rococoko and his like mostly grew up in NZ. I know it does happen that some teens are 'invited' and I find this repugnant. There should be a way to police it based on age/residency. And I mean 12 years old or something.. before it becomes apparent that the kid can be a future AB.


Any quality player who has served his 3 years residency and wants to play for Ireland, I say ¨welcome I think this view makes the irfu too attractive to talented foreigners like ben cobain in wales, flutey in UK. I would not be proud to have a kiwi representing me and my national team. How can you be proud of that? it's the opposite of pride. it's saying 'we're not good enough' before the game kicks off. Wales were not good enough (c) 1999, England are not good enough now (to field a homegrown team)... But Ireland are.

canine
17th-September-2010, 06:19
Shep Wrote


"Why not just ignore the thread, instead of leaving a comment on every thread that you have nothing to contribute to!"


Are you his daddy Shep ?,I figured from all his stupid threads he was about 11 years old alright

locomotion
17th-September-2010, 06:30
If some of the foreign nationals living here now play rugby and qualify to play for Ireland I say welcome if they are good enough. The sane applies to Borlaise because since rugby went professional it is a job now like any other for these players and if he is good enough and qualifies under the laws of the I.R.B. so be it.


In the long term the I.R.F.U. will have to gwt their collective fingers out of their a...es and look at real player development for the future, there is rugby outside the schools if they bother to look.

Balla Boy
17th-September-2010, 06:36
why not, why do you think NZ are so strong, they pluck all the talent from the south sea islands. If someone is good enough and they want to play for Ireland and will make the international team better, I don´t see any problem.

Jesus, we didn´t have any problem when Jack Charlton recruited suspiciously un-Irish players from England, whats the problem now. We´re a small country with 4 main sports competing for our youngsters. Any quality player who has served his 3 years residency and wants to play for Ireland, I say ¨welcome


I think that's a bit of a myth. Most of the "island" All Blacks are either NZ born or have lived there since they started school.

Mcork
17th-September-2010, 07:18
France (Tony Marsh, B. Liebenberg, prop fella named Devillier) and they even tried to get Sowerby even though he'd already been capped by NZ (or was it SA?). Do they even speak French? Even with their huge playing population, they don't care. England have not covered themselves in glory with their NZ IC Flutely now plying his trade in the T14 having pocketed more money for being an INTL. How he must laugh and get slagged by his NZ mates!

I think most people don't want the situation above. However a guy who has lived here a few years or has a parenthal connection, if he shows a real commitment to his province shouldn't be overlooked if eligible. If Mafi for example had't been ruled out due to that ridiculous 7's rule, I'd have no problem with him pulling on an IRL shirt. He's showed his commitment to Munster and is unlikely to go looking for a payday in the south of France once he'd got his 1st cap.

Balla Boy
17th-September-2010, 07:24
Flutey is back at Wasps this season. Must have been homesick smileys/lol.gif

Quailman
17th-September-2010, 14:16
I disagree, there is no way that any new zealander who had the potential to play for the ABs would jepordise that by moving abroad, im guessing he's just not good enough to play for them and I dont want him playing for Ireland - no matter how good he is.

He isn't good enough to play for New Zealand now. He has basically made a value judgement that he won't be able to develop as a Super Rugby player because he has two All Blacks in front of him at TH, one of whom is 22 and better, the other (at 26) plays both sides internationally.

His options were either to change franchise (likely either the Cheifs or the Highlanders) and fight for a potential AB place behind 4 current home-based, capped players, or to go to Ireland, likely for more money [only internationals get decent wages there], where there is and will likely be (once he reaches 28 ) less current competition to play regular international rugby for 5 or 6 years.

He might turn out to be average and someone like Archer or the third Ryan brother might develop into cracking THs, but if he is qualified and he was by far the best option in terms of ability (i.e. with anyone else our scrum would likely be dismantled) then I would be prepared to thow ideology out of the window for gain.