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banjaxed
31st-August-2010, 02:58
New boys pack a familiar punch


By Hugh Farrelly



Tuesday August 31 2010


MUNSTER step into the unknown on Saturday when they take on Aironi in their opening Magners League fixture at Musgrave Park, but while there is an air of mystery surrounding the newly created Italian side, there is also a sense of familiarity surrounding their playing squad.


Treviso, Italy's other representatives in the country's debut season in what has up to now been a Celts-only competition, are more familiar to Irish rugby followers through their participation in the Heineken Cup but, while Saturday will be Aironi's first competitive fixture in Cork, they are launching from a core of international experience, particularly in the front five.


Formed this year via the amalgamation of various clubs from the Lombardia and Emilia-Romagna regions, Aironi have recruited astutely with grizzled front-row practitioners in the shape of prop Salvatore Perugini, formerly of Toulouse, hooker Fabio Ongaro and prop Matias Aguero, who both joined from Saracens. They are well served at second-row also, where Marco Bortolami has joined from Gloucester, while Carlo Del Fava is well known in Ireland following his stint with Ulster between 2007 and 2009.


That front-five combination boasts a total of 279 caps for the Azzurri, while Aironi also have the 13-time capped South African-born lock Quintin Geldenhuys on their books. In the back-row, New Zealander Josh Sole has made 46 international appearances for his adopted country, while fellow flankers Jaco Erasmus, Simone Favaro are also Italian internationals.


At No 8, Aironi have acquired the services of Nick Williams from Munster, a player who will surely be determined to have a big performance on the ground where he scored a hat-trick of tries against the Dragons last season. The Aucklander's time at Munster was troubled by injury and inconsistent form when he did manage to force his way into the team, but he is a powerful ball carrier and, with a run of games, could be extremely effective.


As with the national side, the backline is somewhat less daunting and the likelihood is that Aironi's approach this season will be based around forward power and the boot of experienced French out-half Ludovic Mercier, a prolific points-scorer in the English Premiership during his time with Gloucester.


Tito Tebaldi has 13 caps for Italy but remains a work in progress at scrum-half but, out wide, Kaine Robertson and Matteo Pratichetti have plenty of experience at wing and centre respectively. They also have South African Danwel Demas, who picked up a try for the Cheetahs against the Lions last year and, while he has a reputation for high-profile blunders, the winger has the pace to make an impact.


However, on Saturday it seems certain Aironi will attempt to bully Munster up front -- considering the 2009 champions will be without the injured Paul O'Connell and other front-line performers set to be rested under Ireland's player management scheme.


strength


"We have a pretty big and heavy pack of forwards and we will be looking to use that strength," concedes Sole. "But we will be playing positive rugby too, it won't be all crash and bash. We won't be negative but we expect some good results and to hum along quite nicely -- if we can finish somewhere around sixth, that would be outstanding in our first season."


The introduction of the Italian teams into the Magners League not only provides the competition with a shot of energy and variety but also serves as a welcome boost to the Six Nations, where regular competitive club competition will increase the chances of Italy making a meaningful impact for the first time since they joined the top table 10 years ago.


Traditionally, Italian sides have been confidence-boosting fodder in European rugby but Aironi look like they mean business and Munster at home represents the ideal opportunity to see if that impression holds substance.


- Hugh Farrelly


Irish Independ

rathbaner
31st-August-2010, 08:15
Hard to know what to expect. Looks like useful side with the likes of Ongaro an Bortolami on board.

Viigand
31st-August-2010, 08:24
Decent pack there,itshouldbe a good test for our tight five early in the season.

dropkick
31st-August-2010, 08:36
It looks like they'll play a Glasgow type game. Use Mercier to
keep the scoreboard ticking.

killer_penguin
31st-August-2010, 11:00
danwel demas on the wing,
out and out pace right there.
Would love to see him get more consistent
(not this weekend though smileys/wink.gif )

Point
31st-August-2010, 16:13
It looks like they'll play a Glasgow type game. Use Mercier to
keep the scoreboard ticking.



And you can bet they'll go all out for a win, to make a statement of intent. We'll have to well up for this.

Late try
31st-August-2010, 16:47
Are there any front rows out there that are not 'grizzled'?smileys/smile.gif

Waterfordlad
31st-August-2010, 18:26
We'll need to be well up for this, no easy task. Compared to 6 Nations, the Italians usually start the campaign ferociously and fade a bit after that. We'll get a good idea of our packs progress after this..

Cervidave
31st-August-2010, 18:55
Do we have an idea of our team?

RobbieG
31st-August-2010, 19:43
Wonder what jersey they'll wear?

JoeyFantastic
31st-August-2010, 19:46
Do we have an idea of our team?


Depends, none of the top Internationals will play due to their
preseason, no idea why Buckley, Varley, MOD and Ronan
seem to be allowed skip it.

kooga made for rugby
1st-September-2010, 05:59
Here we go!


Munster vs Aironi Viadana
Referee: <S&#079;NG>Graham Knox</S&#079;NG> (Scotland)
Assistant referees: Peter Haycock (Ireland), D Connolly (Ireland)
Television match official: Brian Fitzgerald (Ireland)
Assessor: Bertie Smith (Ireland)

bugler
1st-September-2010, 06:04
Do we have an idea of our team?





Depends, none of the top Internationals will play due to their

preseason, no idea why Buckley, Varley, MOD and Ronan

seem to be allowed skip it.

Common sense?

Balla Boy
1st-September-2010, 06:07
Expect Mr Knox to have a major influence.


Heavy forward battles early in the season will often come down to who's gotten their head around the ref guidance better.


I'm expecting a continuation of the harsh refereeing of the release call that we saw at the end of last season, with players barely being allowed to set.


Anyone aware of other areas that refs have been told to focus on this season?

overthehillprop
1st-September-2010, 06:16
Expect Mr Knox to have a major influence.


Heavy forward battles early in the season will often come down to who's gotten their head around the ref guidance better.


I'm expecting a continuation of the harsh refereeing of the release call that we saw at the end of last season, with players barely being allowed to set.


Anyone aware of other areas that refs have been told to focus on this season?








There was an article on it somewhere a few weeks ago. I think some of the main one's were being in front of the kicker (and not retreating) as well as policing the off side line at the ruck more stringently.

kooga made for rugby
1st-September-2010, 06:25
Expect Mr Knox to have a major influence.


Heavy forward battles early in the season will often come down to who's gotten their head around the ref guidance better.


I'm expecting a continuation of the harsh refereeing of the release call that we saw at the end of last season, with players barely being allowed to set.


Anyone aware of other areas that refs have been told to focus on this season?








There was an article on it somewhere a few weeks ago. I think some of the main one's were being in front of the kicker (and not retreating) as well as policing the off side line at the ruck more stringently.





1.tackler releasing the ball carrier in the tackle


2. pillars


3. lineout, ball carrying team preveting the opposition from tackling the lineout receiver


4. ahead of the kicker in open play and making no attempt to retreat/offside

Balla Boy
1st-September-2010, 06:26
There was an article on it somewhere a few weeks ago. I think some of the main one's were being in front of the kicker (and not retreating) as well as policing the off side line at the ruck more stringently.





At last. We might even be able to pick and go at the fringe if there isn't someone stood five foot in front of the back feet, not bound, arm in the air.

munsterforever
1st-September-2010, 06:31
they have to be careful about reffing obstruction at re-starts otherwise we will see high hanging droputs giving time for the 22stone fatboys to get to the catcher and put him into hospital for a month.

Judging by the Top 14 they will be very keen on it

LLCOOLJ14
1st-September-2010, 06:40
they have to be careful about reffing obstruction at re-starts otherwise we will see high hanging droputs giving time for the 22stone fatboys to get to the catcher and put him into hospital for a month.




Nothing new there that I can see- thats always been possible...key is to get the receiver in the air where he cant be touched legally...

Blindsider.
1st-September-2010, 06:48
Expect Mr Knox to have a major influence.


Heavy forward battles early in the season will often come down to who's gotten their head around the ref guidance better.


I'm expecting a continuation of the harsh refereeing of the release call that we saw at the end of last season, with players barely being allowed to set.


Anyone aware of other areas that refs have been told to focus on this season?








There was an article on it somewhere a few weeks ago. I think some of the main one's were being in front of the kicker (and not retreating) as well as policing the off side line at the ruck more stringently.





1.tackler releasing the ball carrier in the tackle


2. pillars


3. lineout, ball carrying team preveting the opposition from tackling the lineout receiver


4. ahead of the kicker in open play and making no attempt to retreat/offside

Correct Kooga!

One more.......

The scrum sequence is being slowed right down - aim is to prevent collapses and re=sets.

Ref will call Crouch - and only when both packs are down will he call Touch - only proceed to Pause when both sets of props have touched correctly etc etc

It'll be interesting to see how it works.

If 1 and 2 above are policed correctly, we should see some good rugby.

kooga made for rugby
1st-September-2010, 06:52
Expect Mr Knox to have a major influence.


Heavy forward battles early in the season will often come down to who's gotten their head around the ref guidance better.


I'm expecting a continuation of the harsh refereeing of the release call that we saw at the end of last season, with players barely being allowed to set.


Anyone aware of other areas that refs have been told to focus on this season?








There was an article on it somewhere a few weeks ago. I think some of the main one's were being in front of the kicker (and not retreating) as well as policing the off side line at the ruck more stringently.





1.tackler releasing the ball carrier in the tackle


2. pillars


3. lineout, ball carrying team preveting the opposition from tackling the lineout receiver


4. ahead of the kicker in open play and making no attempt to retreat/offside




Correct Kooga!

One more.......

The scrum sequence is being slowed right down - aim is to prevent collapses and re=sets.

Ref will call Crouch - and only when both packs are down will he call Touch - only proceed to Pause when both sets of props have touched correctly etc etc

It'll be interesting to see how it works.

If 1 and 2 above are policed correctly, we should see some good rugby.



well spotted! waiting now for my fixtures this weekend........so i can put all i learned into practice!

fitzy73
1st-September-2010, 07:56
Whilst I hope the rules re the scrum mean we get less resets, do we really need to make the process any slower?

You'll soon be able to slip out for a pint and a piss between the call for a scrum and the ball being put in.

busbi
1st-September-2010, 08:02
This on RTE/TG4?

redster
1st-September-2010, 08:06
This on RTE/TG4?


RTE 2, coverage starts at 7.15 pm Busbi

Balla Boy
1st-September-2010, 08:10
Whilst I hope the rules re the scrum mean we get less resets, do we really need to make the process any slower?

You'll soon be able to slip out for a pint and a piss between the call for a scrum and the ball being put in.


It's worth a go. The number of resets was crazy last year.


Question is will it work? A fair number of resets are because the ref just doesn't know who's to blame for bringing it down.

Talking Sense
1st-September-2010, 08:36
Horan & Hayes Included in Munster Squad
1 September 2010, 10:54 am
By The Editor
Marcus Horan and John Hayes are included in the squad
announced this morning for Munster's opening Magners
League game in Cork on Saturday (7.30pm).
Share
Munster Squad (27) D Hurley, F Jones, D Barnes, D
Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I Dowling, P Warwick, S
Deasy, D Williams, P Stringer, W du Preez, Dave Ryan, M
Horan, J Hayes, T Buckley, D Fogarty, D Varley, M
O'Driscoll, I Nagle, B Holland, D Ryan, N Ronan, A Quinlan,
P O'Mahony, T O’Donnell, D Leamy

Cervidave
1st-September-2010, 08:51
Looks like we'll get to see a few of the younger guys in Magners League action smileys/thumb-up.gif

Munsterboy
1st-September-2010, 09:01
Do we
have an idea of our team?


Depends, none of the top Internationals will play due to
their
preseason, no idea why Buckley, Varley, MOD and
Ronan
seem to be allowed skip it.

Well, they (the IRFU) said weeks back that they'd be
releasing some of the international contingent early.
We've got quite a few, Ulster have Wallace and Court
and Leinster are expected to have two as well. It
seems that they're doing fitness tests and those
deemed ready now are being allowed to play.

The number of games they play will still be limited
throughout the season but DK and co. seem less
bothered about a rigid 8 week pre-season now.
Perhaps they're not as fixated on bulking them up as
they used to be.

rathbaner
1st-September-2010, 10:07
God I've missed this

Jones
Howlett
Murphy
T'pau
Hurley
Warwick
Strings
WdP
Fogs
Mongo
DRyan
MOD
Quinnie
Ronan
Bear

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 10:13
God I've missed
thisJonesHowlettMurphyT'pauHurleyWarwickStringsWdP FogsM
ongoDRyanMODQuinnieRonanBear


Would go with that except Nagle for MOD and Holland for
Quinny. Give them a chance to win their places for the
tougher games coming up.

Bitter As A Lemon
1st-September-2010, 10:23
Joey, this game is going to be very very tough for us.

Aironi have a huge pack, are looking to make an immediate impression, reckon 20 mins to go will be a good enough chance to ring the changes, and bring on the young guns.

Cervidave
1st-September-2010, 10:30
I agree with Joey, we've gotta take some risks and stop waiting for injuries to force changes. If you're not going to give the young lads a chance in a home game against Italian opposition then when are you.

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 10:32
Joey, this game is going to
be very very tough for us.Aironi have a huge pack, are
looking to make an immediate impression, reckon 20 mins to
go will be a good enough chance to ring the changes, and
bring on the young guns.

I don't know, from what I can gather they've been pretty poor
in their preseason games (haven't looked into it much) and I
think we should be able to trust Holland, perhaps not Nagle, in
these games.

Talking Sense
1st-September-2010, 10:34
God I've missed
thisJonesHowlettMurphyT'pauHurleyWarwickStringsWdP FogsMo
ngoDRyanMODQuinnieRonanBear


Who is Mongo? Id have the same team with Mushy at 3 and
Nagle 5.

Thomond78
1st-September-2010, 10:35
I'd start Nagle. He definitely looked sharper and hungrier than
Micko last Friday. This is also a game where the more mobile
the pack, the better; because that Aironi team will want an
arm-wrestle, but will not enjoy being moved around.

Move them around, flah them out, break them with mauls,
beat them.

Thomond78
1st-September-2010, 10:36
God I've
missed
thisJonesHowlettMurphyT'pauHurleyWarwickStringsWdP FogsM
o
ngoDRyanMODQuinnieRonanBear


Who is Mongo? Id have the same team with Mushy at 3 and
Nagle 5.

Mongo's already claimed as a nick-name by Andy Powell. Him
Mongo; Mushy name Mushy. smileys/wink.gif

Allez Les Rouges
1st-September-2010, 10:46
11 backs and 16 forwards named in squad. Given that 7 backs will play and three will be subs, there will only be one player culled from this list of backs (probably Barnes). Would see Williams, Deasy and Hurley as subs and Johne Murphy at 13 with Dougie and Dowling on wing. Jones to start at full back .


The big decisions are to be made in the pack. 8 players and 4 subs to be oicked from 16 players --- 4 to lose out.


There are 7 players who could play in the back row (Holland and Ryan can also play second row).


There are 5 props so two will have to come out of this. Will they give Marcus a run out and rest Wian -- we will need him later for the big fish-- and will they play Tony Buckley to get his fitness and skills levels up? Or alternatively play the Bull and have Buckley as the replacement prop. Again, I would like to see Dave Ryan get game time but it is going to be a balancing act. we have to win our games and build momentum. But I cannot see us play Marcus and the Bull together as it will be big step up from a normal pre-season game.


I would start Varley with Fogarty as sub, especially as we will have a second string secondrow team and we need to win line outs. Expect Ronan, Leamy and Quinnie to start with TOD as sub. Ryan could move from second row to backrow during the game to allow Nagle game time. But I would start Ryan and MOD in second row.


This is not a "gimme" game!

Thomond78
1st-September-2010, 10:58
ALR, it's 23 man squads in the ML this season, SFAIK.

dropkick
1st-September-2010, 11:05
My team would be:

Jones
Howlett ,Murphy, T'pau ,Hurley
Warwick, Strings
WdP, Varley ,Mushy
D.Ryan, Nagle
Quinnie, TOD, Leamy


Its time to give some of the younger lads a decent run but
at the same time a win is most the important thing so I'd
have Quinnie in there to add experiance or maybe swap
holland for Nagle.

McCloud
1st-September-2010, 11:06
rte.ie/sport


Munster at full strength for season opener
Wednesday 1 September 2010

Marcus Horan and John Hayes have been included in a strong Munster squad for the Magners League tie against Aironi Rugby in Musgrave Park on Saturday, kick-off 7.30pm.


Speaking about their opponents ahead of the weekend clash, coach Tony McGahan said: 'They are certainly an unknown source, very different to Benetton Treviso who really have kept the same squad over the past three/four years.


'Aironi on the other hand have started from scratch. They've made a huge amount of signings and made their intent clear by signing a very experienced forward pack, Bortolami Perugini, Ongaro, test match players with a lot of experience.


'So they're sending out their message of where they want to be with regards to the Magners League and sending a strong message to what they're going to base their game on.'


Munster squad v Aironi Rugby in Magners League at Musgrave Park on Saturday, 4 September, kick-off 7.30pm.


D Hurley, F Jones, D Barnes, D Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I Dowling, P Warwick, S Deasy, D Williams, P Stringer, W du Preez, Dave Ryan, M Horan, J Hayes, T Buckley, D Fogarty, D Varley, M O'Driscoll, I Nagle, B Holland, D Ryan, N Ronan, A Quinlan, P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, D Leamy

Bitter As A Lemon
1st-September-2010, 11:19
Munster at full strength???

Bitter As A Lemon
1st-September-2010, 11:20
Joey, this game is going to
be very very tough for us.Aironi have a huge pack, are
looking to make an immediate impression, reckon 20 mins to
go will be a good enough chance to ring the changes, and
bring on the young guns.




I don't know, from what I can gather they've been pretty poor
in their preseason games (haven't looked into it much) and I
think we should be able to trust Holland, perhaps not Nagle, in
these games.


Maybe Holland alright, bu maybe last 20 mins for Nagle, not sure both of them will see the matchday 23.

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 11:25
Joey, this game is going to be very very tough for
us.Aironi have a huge pack, are looking to make an
immediate impression, reckon 20 mins to go will be a good
enough chance to ring the changes, and bring on the young
guns.


I don't know, from what I can gather they've
been pretty poor in their preseason games (haven't looked
into it much) and I think we should be able to trust Holland,
perhaps not Nagle, in these games.


Maybe Holland alright, bu maybe last 20 mins for Nagle,
not sure both of them will see the matchday
23.

If they don't make the matchday squad they may as well
leave. If we're not going to give them time against the
Italian sides (who will be weak, at least, initially, imo) then
they will get no time except for when someone else is
injured.

McCloud
1st-September-2010, 12:05
munsterrugby.ie


McGahan Wary Of Italian Job


1 September 2010, 2:22 pm
By The Editor


While his Video Analyst George Murray won't have been able to provide him with much material to work with, Tony McGahan is extremely wary of the challenge that will be provided by newcomers Aironi Rugby on Saturday.

Share
Speaking to media today in UL, McGahan admitted that he didn't know a lot about his opponents but was certain, "they'd be coming to Munster to make a really strong statement about their approach to the competition. They've recruited well, brought in a lot of experienced players. There's probably not a lot of pressure on them to get a result, but Munster away first up, they've nothing to lose, they can make a really strong statement to the rest of the opposition where they're going to be for this year."
As a newly formed franchise McGahan won't have had much if any video footage of the Italians, "We've seen footage of their game last week" - against Northampton -" but really our focus at this stage has to be on ourselves and what we're going to bring. That's the most important thing for us going into every game but more importantly at this stage of the season. We need to understand ourselves and how we're progressing before we can worry what the opposition is going to throw at us."


Of course the visitors will have a certain insider knowledge provided by Nick Williams, but McGahan admitted there had been no recent contact, "No, haven't been in touch. I doubt he would be giving up any secrets on line-out calls or how they're going to call.


"We'll catch up before the game and say G'day because he was a very popular member of the squad when he was here, has a lot of good friends here. We wish him the best not only on Saturday evening but for the rest of his time with Aironi because he was an excellent person and one that we really enjoyed for his company and his rugby."


"Nick'll be well versed in what we're doing. But I would imagine, with all their calls being in Italian, his concentration levels will be directed towards listening and understanding them rather than what we're doing."


Munster Squad: D Hurley, F Jones, D Barnes, D Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I Dowling, P Warwick, S Deasy, D Williams, P Stringer, W du Preez, Dave Ryan, M Horan, J Hayes, T Buckley, D Fogarty, D Varley, M O'Driscoll, I Nagle, B Holland, D Ryan, N Ronan, A Quinlan, P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, D Leamy.

scotscor
1st-September-2010, 12:09
Jones
Dougie johne sam t Dowling (Hurley)
Warwick Strings (Williams,Deasy)
De Prezzie, Varley, Buckley (Davy,Foggy, Marcussy)
Nagle Ryan (MOD)
Holland, Leamy, TOD (Quinnie)

Mebawsa Ritchie
1st-September-2010, 12:18
I think we may be in danger of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.

This is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.

Balla Boy
1st-September-2010, 12:24
I think we may be in danger of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.

This is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.







Then which ones will?

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 12:24
I think we may be in danger of
underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.This is no
game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that
hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.*


What games are?

Canterbury
1st-September-2010, 12:24
Has Jonhny Murphy played at centre before? I would prefer to see Danny Barnes in the centre.

jmccoy
1st-September-2010, 12:28
15. Jones
14. Howlett
13. Murphy
12. Tuitupou
11. Hurley
10. Warwick
09. Stringer
01. Du Preez
02. Varley
03. Buckley
04. Nagle
05. Ryan
06. Quinlan
07. Ronan
08. Leamy

Horan, Hayes, Fogarty, O'Driscoll, O'Donnell, Williams,
Deasy, Dowling, Barnes.

rathbaner
1st-September-2010, 12:31
Who is Mongo? Id have the same team with Mushy at 3 and

Nagle 5.

http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/E83_M&#111;ngo1.jpghttp://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/9D8_M&#111;ngoBut200JPG.jpg


Your question?

Mebawsa Ritchie
1st-September-2010, 12:36
I think we may be in danger of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.

This is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.







Then which ones will?

Tough question.

We saw what the like of a Tigers pack did to our youngsters. I think maybe start with a pack strong enough to get the job done, and then use the fringe players as subs as appropriate.

By that I don't mean 73rd minute subs btw.

Mebawsa Ritchie
1st-September-2010, 12:37
Who is Mongo? Id have the same team with Mushy at 3 and

Nagle 5.

http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/E83_M&#111;ngo1.jpghttp://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/9D8_M&#111;ngoBut200JPG.jpg


Your question?


Mongo is Shane Horgan. Name is already taken.

Balla Boy
1st-September-2010, 12:41
I think we may be in danger of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.

This is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.







Then which ones will?




Tough question.

We saw what the like of a Tigers pack did to our youngsters. I think maybe start with a pack strong enough to get the job done, and then use the fringe players as subs as appropriate.

By that I don't mean 73rd minute subs btw.



So none of the fringe players should expect to start a magners league game at home?


I think that's crazy.

scotscor
1st-September-2010, 12:42
We wont win the HEC this season, we have a chance in the ML. But the season will only be a success if we bring through the kids. It means that the likes of Dave Ryan, Darragh Hurley, Nagle, TOD, POM, Deasy have to be getting at least 5 starts each.


We need to be starting some kids in pretty much every ML game. They wont let us down.

Mebawsa Ritchie
1st-September-2010, 12:44
I think we may be in danger of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.

This is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that hackneyed overused term) particularly from the off.







Then which ones will?




Tough question.

We saw what the like of a Tigers pack did to our youngsters. I think maybe start with a pack strong enough to get the job done, and then use the fringe players as subs as appropriate.

By that I don't mean 73rd minute subs btw.



So none of the fringe players should expect to start a magners league game at home?


I think that's crazy.

I don't pick the team, but if I did very few would start any game. They might get plenty of action through the season however.

rathbaner
1st-September-2010, 12:48
We wont win the HEC this season, we have a chance in the ML. But the season will only be a success if we bring through the kids.




Good post

rathbaner
1st-September-2010, 12:49
Who is Mongo? Id have the same team with Mushy at 3 and

Nagle 5.

http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/E83_M&#111;ngo1.jpghttp://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/9D8_M&#111;ngoBut200JPG.jpg


Your question?


Mongo is Shane Horgan. Name is already taken.


Shane who? Never heard of him.

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 12:50
I think we may be in danger
of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.This
is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that
hackneyed overused term) particularly from the
off.*


Then which ones will?


Tough question.We saw what the like of a
Tigers pack did to our youngsters. I think maybe start with
a pack strong enough to get the job done, and then use the
fringe players as subs as appropriate.By that I don't mean
73rd minute subs btw.


So none of the fringe players should expect to start a
magners league game at home?


I think that's crazy. I don't pick the team,
but if I did very few would start any game. They might get
plenty of action through the season however.

How do young guys ever earn their place then? For all we
know Nagle is the next POC but we won't know if he can't
get any meaningful gametime due to MOD being started.

Mebawsa Ritchie
1st-September-2010, 12:51
I give up! smileys/lol.gif

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 12:53
I give up! smileys/lol.gif


Wasn't POC capped by Ireland at 22? Sometimes you just
have to drop established players to give young guys
experience. We know how good MOD is (very), the question is
could Nagle be better?

Canterbury
1st-September-2010, 13:03
I think we may be in danger
of underestimating the opposition, particularly up front.This
is no game for giving fringe players gametime (I hate that
hackneyed overused term) particularly from the
off.



Then which ones will?



Tough question.We saw what the like of a
Tigers pack did to our youngsters. I think maybe start with
a pack strong enough to get the job done, and then use the
fringe players as subs as appropriate.By that I don't mean
73rd minute subs btw.



So none of the fringe players should expect to start a
magners league game at home?



I think that's crazy.


I don't pick the team,
but if I did very few would start any game. They might get
plenty of action through the season however.

How do young guys ever earn their place then? For all we
know Nagle is the next POC but we won't know if he can't
get any meaningful gametime due to MOD being started.


Nagle isnt the next Paul O Connell, although I do think the younger players need more game time.

darren_ob
1st-September-2010, 13:05
As much as we all know the young guys should be given a chance I cant see how McGahan wil be any different from last year. He refused to change anything last year so I dont see why he would be any different from last season, the only time were really going to see the young guys is when we have no internationals available!

Allez Les Rouges
1st-September-2010, 13:11
I give up! smileys/lol.gif


Wasn't POC capped by Ireland at 22? Sometimes you just
have to drop established players to give young guys
experience. We know how good MOD is (very), the question is
could Nagle be better?


But Paul O Connell was playing for a very good Young Munster side at say 19 years old and like Mal O Kelly at that age he stood out as someone to go the whole way. Nagle and Foley have been good but never showed at 19 that they could play AIL against the top sides. We like to dream that some players will be the next Paul O Connell (an exceptional player)but I've yet to see anything which would suggest that Nagle will make it. as the next Paul O Connell. David O Callaghan , a younger player, may be a better bet!


I favour playing a good solid team to get a good start to the Magners and gradually add one or two young players either as subs or possibly starting them in positions where they would be well supported by seasoned campaigners.


If I saw the Magners imploding for us then, I would simply use the Magners as a developmental league but only then.

dropkick
1st-September-2010, 13:26
Lets not presume the young players will weaken the team.
If fact the younger players will be trying harder to win the
ML than the more experianced players who have HEC and
international rugby to think about.







I give up! smileys/lol.gif Wasn't
POC capped by Ireland at 22? Sometimes you just have to
drop established players to give young guys experience.
We know how good MOD is (very), the question is could
Nagle be better?


But Paul O Connell was playing for a very good Young
Munster side at say 19 years old and like Mal O Kelly at
that age he stood out as someone to go the whole way.
Nagle and Foley have been good but never showed at 19
that they could play AIL against the top sides. We like to
dream that some players will be the next Paul O Connell
(an exceptional player)but I've yet to see anything which
would suggest that Nagle will make it. as the next Paul O
Connell. *David O Callaghan , a younger player, may be a
better bet!


I favour playing a good solid team to get a good start to
the Magners and gradually add one or two young players
either as subs or possibly starting them in positions where
they would be well supported by seasoned
campaigners.


If I saw the Magners imploding for us then, I would
simply use the Magners as a developmental league but
only then.

Some players are late developers. I agree about David
O'Callaghan. He looks like a very good athlete who'll be
promoted to a development contract in a year or 2.

dropkick
1st-September-2010, 13:29
As much as we all know the young
guys should be given a chance I cant see how McGahan wil
be any different from last year. He refused to change
anything last year so I dont see why he would be any
different from last season, the only time were really going
to see the young guys is when we have no internationals
available!


I was thinking the same too but I think this season he
knows they have to start blooding new players. He's no
option because of the average age of the squad.

Conan
1st-September-2010, 13:47
I give up! smileys/lol.gif


Wasn't POC capped by Ireland at 22? Sometimes you just
have to drop established players to give young guys
experience. We know how good MOD is (very), the question is
could Nagle be better?


But Paul O Connell was playing for a very good Young Munster side at say 19 years old and like Mal O Kelly at that age he stood out as someone to go the whole way. Nagle and Foley have been good but never showed at 19 that they could play AIL against the top sides. We like to dream that some players will be the next Paul O Connell (an exceptional player)but I've yet to see anything which would suggest that Nagle will make it. as the next Paul O Connell. David O Callaghan , a younger player, may be a better bet!


I favour playing a good solid team to get a good start to the Magners and gradually add one or two young players either as subs or possibly starting them in positions where they would be well supported by seasoned campaigners.


If I saw the Magners imploding for us then, I would simply use the Magners as a developmental league but only then.








At 19 Nagle was an integral part of a UCC team that won promotiom to division 1 proper. Showed buckets of potential when playing schools with a "B" school.


When POC broke thro' into the munster team, the Second Row situation was lightyears behind what it is now. Munster currently have arguably 4 of Ireland's first choice locks at the club. I won'twrite off a 21-year old Nagle yet. On that note Dave o' Callagahan is at most 6months younger than Nagle, I'd suggest less. Both show great promise and will make the grade, if not here then elsewhere.

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 14:04
I
give up! smileys/lol.gif Wasn't POC capped by Ireland at
22? Sometimes you just have to drop established players
to give young guys experience. We know how good MOD is
(very), the question is could Nagle be better?


But Paul O Connell was playing for a very good Young
Munster side at say 19 years old and like Mal O Kelly at
that age he stood out as someone to go the whole way.
Nagle and Foley have been good but never showed at 19
that they could play AIL against the top sides. We like to
dream that some players will be the next Paul O Connell
(an exceptional player)but I've yet to see anything which
would suggest that Nagle will make it. as the next Paul O
Connell. *David O Callaghan , a younger player, may be a
better bet!


I favour playing a good solid team to get a good start to
the Magners and gradually add one or two young players
either as subs or possibly starting them in positions where
they would be well supported by seasoned
campaigners.


If I saw the Magners imploding for us then, I would
simply use the Magners as a developmental league but
only then.





*


At 19 Nagle was an integral part of a UCC team that won
promotiom to division 1 proper. Showed buckets of
potential when playing schools with a "B" school.


When POC broke thro' into the munster team, the
Second Row situation was lightyears behind what it is now.
Munster currently have arguably 4 of Ireland's first choice
locks at the club. I won't*write off a 21-year old Nagle yet.
On that note Dave o' Callagahan is at most 6months
younger than Nagle, I'd suggest less. Both show great
promise and will make the grade, if not here then
elsewhere.


*

Dave O'Callaghan is still u20?

Conan
1st-September-2010, 14:36
Apologies Joey, He sure is, just checked out DS, there's a year between them. Point still holds. I'd rate both highly tbh, O'Callaghan has big year ahead of him with Dolphin, much like Nagle at this stage last year. With the age profile of O'Connell, DOC and MOD, I'd be hopeful both will make the grade here over the coming 2/3 years.


We all know the vast impact O'Connel has had in Munster and Irish rugby, but I'm sure few would have predicted such an impact when he was 19/20.

bosh12
1st-September-2010, 14:53
If they are good enough, they ll break through. Denis Leamy broke through in the 2003/2004 season when we had Jim Williams, Stephen Keogh (well, in the squad), Eddie Halvey, David Wallace, Colm McMahon, and Anthony Foley, amongst others.

HurlerOnDeDitch
1st-September-2010, 15:59
I think Arioni will become a tough outfit to beat as the season progresses. We are getting them at the right time, while they are still geting to know each other.


We should be targeting 5 poimts from this game to give us a head start in theleague, and the team selected should reflect that goal.


I have no problem with playing some of the young players butI would like to see them integrated into strong sides,one or two at a time, rather than dumped in en masse for certain games.


This, for me, is the best way to continue their progress into the first team squad and see what they are really capable of.

inglorious
1st-September-2010, 17:10
We wont win the HEC this season, we have a chance in the ML. But the season will only be a success if we bring through the kids. It means that the likes of Dave Ryan, Darragh Hurley, Nagle, TOD, POM, Deasy have to be getting at least 5 starts each.


We need to be starting some kids in pretty much every ML game. They wont let us down. Why wont we win the H Cup this season?At least we will have a scrum that wont be going backwards as fast.I think Du Preez, Varley and Borlase will make us more competitive when the first choice props are not released, or are on Intl duty.When they are Ryan and probably Hurley will be on the bench.It will be interesting to see who will be starting the H Cup games.

sewa
1st-September-2010, 17:47
Interesting season ahead. Starting with a win is priority. That said the players who played Glaws / Tigers should be able to get the job done. Give the Bull and Marcus a second half each.

busbi
1st-September-2010, 20:23
I have no problem with playing some of the young players but*I would like to see them integrated into
strong sides,*one or two at a time, rather than dumped in en masse for certain games.


This, for me, is the best way to continue their progress into the first team squad and see what they are
really capable of.

I'd fully agree with that. When "resting" the international players it needs to be done in a spaced out and
dispersed manner, basically leaving one or two out for each game.

Rebel Yell
1st-September-2010, 20:40
15. Jones
14. Howlett
13. Murphy
12. Tuitupou
11. Hurley
10. Warwick
09. Stringer
01. Du Preez
02. Varley
03. Buckley
04. Nagle
05. Ryan
06. Quinlan
07. Ronan
08. Leamy

Horan, Hayes, Fogarty, O'Driscoll, O'Donnell, Williams,
Deasy, Dowling, Barnes.


I'd go with that team as well. Don't think Fogarty should be let near the team until he learns to throw properly, that's his primary function and Varley is a more reliable operator. Give Nagle a go, MOD can come on to close out the match. Close run thing for no 7 spot, if the friendlies were any barometer O'Donnell should start.

michael cotter
1st-September-2010, 20:41
Is james coughlan injured?

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 20:42
I have no problem with playing some of the young
players but*I would like to see them integrated into
strong sides,*one or two at a time, rather than dumped in
en masse for certain games.


This, for me, is the best way to continue their progress
into the first team squad and see what they are
really capable of.

I'd fully agree with that. When "resting" the international
players it needs to be done in a spaced out and
dispersed manner, basically leaving one or two out for
each game.

At least this way we'll be able to decide who want play, as
opposed to rushing players back for the HEC and dropping
everyone who'd played up to that point.

JoeyFantastic
1st-September-2010, 22:54
Fitness boost for Munster pack
By Barry Coughlan
Thursday, September 02, 2010
MUNSTER have been boosted by the return of seasoned
internationals John Hayes and Marcus Horan to the squad
for Saturday’s Magners League opener against Italian
newcomers Aironi at Musgrave Park (7.30pm)

Despite utility back Barry Murphy having suffered a
succession of niggling problems, there is better news on
the injury front with Keith Earls’ ankle injury unlikely to
keep him out for much more than a month while Lifeimi
Mafi will be ready for action within a fortnight.

The two experienced props have been named in a group of
27 players that also includes Denis Hurley, as coach Tony
McGahan made just three alterations from the squad on
duty against Gloucester last week.

Rookie backs Simon Zebo and Ivan Dineen make way,
while just one front row forward, youngster Stephen
Archer, loses out.

"We are lucky enough to have both back and they will get
some time off the bench at least," McGahan said yesterday.

Although the coach is certain to re-introduce Horan and
Hayes, he is clearly happy with the way the Munster scrum
performed in the recent friendly games against more
experienced Leicester Tigers and Gloucester outfits.

"I think you’re going to see a different dynamic this year
anyway with 23 in the (matchday) squad and clubs will
have one full front row on the pitch and another on the
bench. It’s going to be interesting to see how they will be
used. We feel we need to give our guys a decent block of
game time; how you do that is important but we have to
consider everything.

"We were happy with the way things went in the friendly
games. They were both really hard games; we wanted to
give ourselves a tough marker, particularly in the set
pieces. We got pushed around a bit in the early stages of
the Leicester game but that was exactly what we wanted
because it was a test, and we certainly felt that the first
game helped us prepare for the second and led to a good
solid display against a Gloucester side I feel will make
some good strong claims to the Premiership in England this
season."

Mafi’s progress gives Munster another option in the near
future. "He should be right within a fortnight," McGahan
said, before addressing the Earls issue.

"We had been protecting him at the back end of last season
after his injury during the six nations; he was only training
every three weeks to play every three weeks.

"To get back where he had a good pre-season only to pick
up an injury by slipping off the back of somebody else’s
boot was a bit frustrating. He goes back for another scan in
10 days to get a clearer picture, but happily we have been
led to believe it’s a medium-level injury."

McGahan is unlikely to make major changes from the side
that defeated Gloucester but will surely start Mick O’Driscoll
in the second row alongside either Donncha Ryan or Ian
Nagle. The full back position is up for grabs between Felix
Jones and the returning Hurley and the coach may stick
with the Sam Tuitupou/Johne Murphy midfield partnership
even if the former Leicester man lacks experience in that
position.

One way or another, he is happy with Tuitupo over two
spells of 50 minutes in the last couple of games. "Given he
was coming off the back of an injury that limited his pre-
season a bit, I thought he did very well in pretty strong
company."

In a sense, though, McGahan feels Munster will go into this
game on a wing and a prayer on the basis that Aironi are
such an unknown quantity.

While McGahan can surmise tha

McCloud
2nd-September-2010, 06:03
Aironi keen to make early Magners League mark
Magners League
Munster v Aironi Rugby, Saturday 7.30pm (Musgrave Park)
By Ian Moriarty


Thursday, September 02, 2010


AT first glance, there could be no more difficult a start to life in the Magners League than what lies ahead for Aironi on Saturday.


The Italian franchise visit Musgrave Park for what will be their first competitive game ever – a daunting prospect for any European team, never mind a scratch side that has been cobbled together over the summer.


Try telling that, however, to their Italian international flanker Josh Sole who, despite being sidelined with injury, can’t wait for Saturday to come.


"Does it get much bigger?" asks Sole. "In Italy Munster and Leinster are probably the two best known Magners League teams and to start against Munster over there is going to be quite intimidating but also a good challenge. The boys have a lot of respect for the Munster guys and there’s a little bit of the fear factor as well, but the Italians generally react quite well to fear."


Made up of an alliance of Italian clubs from the Lombardy region including the likes of Viadana and the two Parma clubs, Aironi sound like an outfit that will be right at home with their Irish, Scottish and Welsh counterparts. It now seems like an age ago that the IRFU made the decision to concentrate the pool of professional players around the Irish provinces back in 1995. With that in mind, Sole is convinced that the creation of the two Italian superclubs and Magners League entry will do something similar for Italian rugby.


"It’s going to make a massive difference," he contends. "It’s not just guys like me but for the young guys as well. Playing in this league week in, week out against this kind of level of players is going to be hard but fantastic as well. You’re playing at such a high level and at such speed that you can only improve. Your confidence is going to climb every week and the boys are going to believe in themselves a bit more. And obviously the public are going to believe in Italian rugby a bit more. It’s only going to close the gap further."


That there is still a sizeable gap is the biggest worry about the two Italian super-clubs’ accession into what has hitherto been a strictly Celtic affair. Both Aironi and Treviso have been slow to reveal what their targets are for the season, preferring instead to talk about taking things on a game by game basis. To boot, Aironi are effectively a scratch side, having signed 18 players in the close season, so no-one quite knows what to expect when they travel to Musgrave Park on Saturday.


Sole, however, dismisses the suggestion that there will be any ‘bedding-in’ period at Aironi.


"It won’t actually be that difficult because under the Italian national system with the national team, the A team and the Under 21’s, we’re all quite involved with each other a lot and we all have the same training patterns and training styles. A lot of guys who have come to Aironi I’ve played with or against over the last couple of years. No one’s a stranger at Aironi.


"I’ve been asked a few times about the fear factor. A lot of people are of the opinion that we might start well and fade off towards the end. I don’t believe that’s going to be the case. We’ve got good staff, good coaches and good systems in place at Aironi. Everyone’s being looked after really well and even if it’s a long season with the international games thrown in there as well. I think we’ll do alright this season and we should be able to reach our goals."


While Aironi arrive in Cork as something of an unknown quantity, a scratching of the surface reveals a squad bursting with Six Nations experience, especially in the tight five. Internationals Marco Bortolami, Fabio Ongaro and Salvatore Perugini have returned home to substantially strengthen the armoury and there are 19 Italian internationals in all to choose from. Fort-six times capped Sole won’t be there this weekend because of the wr

mr chips
2nd-September-2010, 06:50
Have to say that I'm more concerned about Aironi than I was about the likes of Montauban in the HEC, and I wasn't taking them for granted either. While they may currently lack the cohesion of a team that has grown &amp; developed together, the desire to make their mark combined with the presence of so many Italian internationals will defray that problem to a fair degree. Think they have the potential to give us a right kick up the hole.

deadlyBuzz
2nd-September-2010, 07:03
I might be a bit confused with 4/5 and 12/13 (Late night and it is early) but my prediction at the team is...


Team:
1. W du Preez
2. D Fogarty
3. T Buckley
4. B Holland
5. Mick O'Driscoll
6. Alan Quinlan
7. Niall Ronan
8. Denis Leamy
9. P Stringer
10. P Warwick
11. Denis Hurley
12. J Murphy
13. S Tuitupou
14. Doug Howlett
15. Felix Jones
Subs: Hayes,O’Mahony, I Dowling, Donncha Ryan, D Varley, M Horan, S Deasy, Dave Ryan



Can someone confirm that this is a 23 man match day squad or 22? If 22 Dave ryan will probably (once again) be the guy to be overlooked. TMcG also seems to have a soft spot for Foggy so I'd see him also being selected at 2.


Actually, Looking at this team, maybe youth isn't going to get the chance we all thought at the start of the year without the IRFU forcing the hand.


I would Like to see Nagle starting with Holland and O'Donnell instead of Quinny. I think it;s pretty clear what Quinny and Mick-O bring to the Table so why not let the young lads get some game time? I'd like to see Danny Barnes play as well but looking at the squad I think I'll be pretty accurate with the 4 to be dropped.

Munsterboy
2nd-September-2010, 07:45
I might be a bit confused with
4/5 and 12/13 (Late night and it is early) but my prediction
at the team is...


Team: 1.* W du Preez2.* D Fogarty3.* T Buckley4.* B
Holland5.* Mick O'Driscoll6.* Alan Quinlan7.* Niall Ronan8.*
Denis Leamy9.* P Stringer10.* P Warwick11.* Denis
Hurley12.* J Murphy13. S Tuitupou14.* Doug Howlett15.*
Felix JonesSubs: Hayes,O’Mahony, I Dowling, Donncha
Ryan, D Varley, M Horan, S Deasy, Dave Ryan


Can someone confirm that this is a 23 man match day
squad or 22?* If 22 Dave ryan will probably (once again)
be the guy to be overlooked.* TMcG also seems to have a
soft spot for Foggy so I'd see him also being selected at 2.*



Actually, Looking at this team, maybe youth isn't going
to get the chance we all thought at the start of the year
without the IRFU forcing the hand.


I would Like to see Nagle starting with Holland and
O'Donnell instead of Quinny.* I think it;s pretty clear what
Quinny and Mick-O bring to the Table so why not let the
young lads get some game time?* I'd like to see Danny
Barnes play as well but looking at the squad I think I'll be
pretty accurate with the 4 to be dropped.

I would expect Ryan or Nagle to get the nod over Holland.
Wouldn't expect Hurley to start, although he'll probably get
a run on. It is a 23 man squad but Horan and Hayes will
be on the bench, no place for Dave Ryan unfortunately -
we need a scrum half on the bench.

Speedy
2nd-September-2010, 10:21
15 LAHARRAGUE JULIEN

14 RUBINI GIULIO

13 QUARTAROLI ROBERTO

12 DES FOUNTAIN DYLAN

11 TONIOLATTI GIULIO

10 MERCIER LUDOVIC

9 TEBALDI TITO

1 DE MARCHI ALBERTO

2 ONGARO FABIO

3 PERUGINI SALVATORE

4 DEL FAVA CARLO ANTONIO

5 GELDENHUYS QUINTIN (c)

6 ERASMUS JACO

7 KRAUSE GARETH

8 WILLIAMS NICK




Replacements


16 DE MARCHI ANDREA

17 SANTAMARIA ROBERTO

18 MILANI LUIGI

19 BORTOLAMI MARCO

20 BIRCHALL ALDO

21 WILSON MICHAEL

22 BENETTIN ALBERTO

23 PIZARRO GABRIEL

MagnersLeague.com (http://www.magnersleague.com/news/6148.php)

Speedy
2nd-September-2010, 10:23
I wonder will Dylan des Fountain reproduce his Stormers form (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oxQjNzbOE)
smileys/biggrin.gif

darren_ob
2nd-September-2010, 10:24
Is james coughlan injured?


Same with Tom Gleeson, strange how he wasnt mentioned at any stage of preseason? He was in pics of training sessions alright but no mention, anyone know anything?

McCloud
2nd-September-2010, 10:48
munsterrugby.ie


Four Changes For Magners Opener.
2 September 2010, 8:45 am


By Pat Geraghty





Munster coach Tony McGahan has madefour changes, one positional, for theeir Magners League opener against Aironi Rugby in Musgrave Park on Saturday (7.30pm).

All those changes are confined to the forward pack and in particular to the back five with Mick O'Driscoll parternering Billy Holland in the second row which means a switch to blind-side wing-forward for Donnacha Ryan at the expense of Alan Quinlan - who's named on the bench - and Niall Ronan, a 45th minute replacement last weekend for Tommy O'Donnell, retained at open-side.
Included among the replacements for the first time are Irish internationals John Hayes and Marcus Horan. Denis Leamy captains the side as he has done for the opening two games.


Munster: F Jones; D Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I Dowling; P Warwick, P Stringer; W du Preez, D Varley, T Buckley, M O'Driscoll, B Holland; D Ryan, N Ronan, D Leamy capt. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, J Hayes, A Quinlan, P O'Mahony, D Williams, S Deasy, D Barnes

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 10:49
Four Changes For Magners Opener.
2 September 2010, 8:45 amBy Pat Geraghty
Munster coach Tony McGahan has madefour changes, one
positional, for theeir Magners League opener against Aironi
Rugby in Musgrave Park on Saturday (7.30pm).
All those changes are confined to the forward pack and in
particular to the back five with Mick O'Driscoll parternering
Billy Holland in the second row which means a switch to
blind-side wing-forward for Donnacha Ryan at the expense
of Alan Quinlan - who's named on the bench - and Niall
Ronan, a 45th minute replacement last weekend for
Tommy O'Donnell, retained at open-side.
Included among the replacements for the first time are
Irish internationals John Hayes and Marcus Horan. Denis
Leamy captains the side as he has done for the opening
two games.

Munster: F Jones; D Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I
Dowling; P Warwick, P Stringer; W du Preez, D Varley, T
Buckley, M O'Driscoll, B Holland; D Ryan, N Ronan, D
Leamy capt. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, J Hayes,
A Quinlan, P O'Mahony, D Williams, S Deasy, D Barnes

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 10:50
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?

Balla Boy
2nd-September-2010, 10:53
Ryan at flank and Holland at lock? Why?


And is that press release right in having Murphy at 12 and Tuitupou at 13?

Quailman
2nd-September-2010, 10:57
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?


There are two possible reasons. Firstly, Ryan is to be our HEC
6 (though that seems arse about face when we are missing
POC, so he should have a shot at partnering DOC as he is a
much better athlete than MOD) or secondly, and more
worryingly, he is crap at the set-piece.

FORWARD....
2nd-September-2010, 10:58
After last season's poor displays-(in itself, a continuation of our previous years form), I am strangely optimistic about this year.
C'mon Munster- the rugby season is startingsmileys/biggrin.gif.

Conan
2nd-September-2010, 11:03
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?


There are two possible reasons. Firstly, Ryan is to be our HEC
6 (though that seems arse about face when we are missing
POC, so he should have a shot at partnering DOC as he is a
much better athlete than MOD) or secondly, and more
worryingly, he is crap at the set-piece.


My first thought aswell. I was presuming DR to be a big contender to start alongside DOC come HC time. If that was the case he should be given as much time here as possible. I would've said HC second row is of more immediate concern than 6. Perhaps his scrummaging at lock isn't upto scratch, no evidence of that tho.

Tobyglen
2nd-September-2010, 11:10
Thats a poor second row pairing, surely Ryan should be playing lock.
Whats the story with TOD? Has POM already passed him out in vying for a place on bench?

scotscor
2nd-September-2010, 11:24
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 11:24
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?


There are two possible reasons. Firstly, Ryan is to be our
HEC
6 (though that seems arse about face when we are missing
POC, so he should have a shot at partnering DOC as he is a
much better athlete than MOD) or secondly, and more
worryingly, he is crap at the set-piece.

Cheery thoughts, either way.

Anyhow, interesting to read that McGahan sent Jones off to
work on his kicking last year, will hopefully give him an
edge to hold off Warwick.

bosh12
2nd-September-2010, 11:52
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?


Holland is a second row at this stage, its where he has played most of his games for Munster. Ryan is a far more athletic player, more suited to 6. In reality, they ll both be jumping in the lineout, Holland is bigger than Ryan so quite possibly a better scrummager, I dont see why everyone is getting so excited.


POM on bench ahead of TOD, presume thats because he covers more positions in backrow, whereas TOD would in reality only cover 7 and 6 at a push.

John123
2nd-September-2010, 12:08
From deadsite:

Williams At No 8 For Aironi.
2 September 2010, 12:33 pm
By The Editor
Nick Williams anchors an Aironi scrum that includes current Italian internationals Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini, Carlo Del Fava and Quintin Geldenhuys for Saturday's Magners League clash with Munster at Musgrave Park (7.30pm).
Share
Also included in the starting XV is the Italian international Tito Tebaldi at scrum-half partner to former French interational Ludovic Mercier who Munster supporters will remember so well from his Gloucester days.

Full back for the Italians on Saturday will be the former French international Julien Laharrague whose last visit to Munster was with a Montauban side who came so close to lowering Munster colours in an opening Heineken Cup tie two years ago.

Aironi Rugby: Julien Laharrague; Giulio Rubini, Roberto Quartaroli, Dylan Des Fountain, Giulio Toniolatti; Ludovic Mercier, Tito Tebaldi; Alberto De Marchi, Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini; Carlo Del Fava, Quintin Geldenhuys; Jaco Erasmus, Gareth Krause, Nick Williams. Replacements: Andrea De Marchi, Roberto Santamaria, Luigi Milani, Marco Bortolami, Aldo Birchall, Michael Wilson, Alberto Benettin, Gabriel Pizarro.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 12:16
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting


smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.

bosh12
2nd-September-2010, 12:18
RHH might correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure the sub scrum half Wilson played for Old Rainey a couple of years ago and was on the same Irish Schools team as Eoin O Malley, Andrew Burke etc.

scotscor
2nd-September-2010, 12:19
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting


smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.

Thanks MR, as always you are ready with an insightful post. Just once in a while it would be nice if you had a post which was more than one line long without a smilie in it. Such a post might actually have some merit.There might be some thought in it. Occasionally you may feel that there is something you have an interest in besides Gay Teachers and Travellers.

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 12:19
Disappointed with that team selection.
Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting
smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has
promised to treat it with due merit.

shocking attitude, both did well in the preseason games.

POC Lost Tooth
2nd-September-2010, 12:20
From deadsite:

Williams At No 8 For Aironi.
2 September 2010, 12:33 pm
By The Editor
Nick Williams anchors an Aironi scrum that includes current Italian internationals Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini, Carlo Del Fava and Quintin Geldenhuys for Saturday's Magners League clash with Munster at Musgrave Park (7.30pm).
Share
Also included in the starting XV is the Italian international Tito Tebaldi at scrum-half partner to former French interational Ludovic Mercier who Munster supporters will remember so well from his Gloucester days.

Full back for the Italians on Saturday will be the former French international Julien Laharrague whose last visit to Munster was with a Montauban side who came so close to lowering Munster colours in an opening Heineken Cup tie two years ago.

Aironi Rugby: Julien Laharrague; Giulio Rubini, Roberto Quartaroli, Dylan Des Fountain, Giulio Toniolatti; Ludovic Mercier, Tito Tebaldi; Alberto De Marchi, Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini; Carlo Del Fava, Quintin Geldenhuys; Jaco Erasmus, Gareth Krause, Nick Williams. Replacements: Andrea De Marchi, Roberto Santamaria, Luigi Milani, Marco Bortolami, Aldo Birchall, Michael Wilson, Alberto Benettin, Gabriel Pizarro.



That's not a bad Aironi side....

HurlerOnDeDitch
2nd-September-2010, 12:22
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?


Holland is a second row at this stage, its where he has played most of his games for Munster. Ryan is a far more athletic player, more suited to 6. In reality, they ll both be jumping in the lineout, Holland is bigger than Ryan so quite possibly a better scrummager, I dont see why everyone is getting so excited.


POM on bench ahead of TOD, presume thats because he covers more positions in backrow, whereas TOD would in reality only cover 7 and 6 at a push.





O'Donnell went off injured ast weekend. Maybe he's not quite right yet.

Balla Boy
2nd-September-2010, 12:25
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting

smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.



If you disagree you could always, you know, disagree.

John123
2nd-September-2010, 12:29
From deadsite:

Williams At No 8 For Aironi.
2 September 2010, 12:33 pm
By The Editor
Nick Williams anchors an Aironi scrum that includes current Italian internationals Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini, Carlo Del Fava and Quintin Geldenhuys for Saturday's Magners League clash with Munster at Musgrave Park (7.30pm).
Share
Also included in the starting XV is the Italian international Tito Tebaldi at scrum-half partner to former French interational Ludovic Mercier who Munster supporters will remember so well from his Gloucester days.

Full back for the Italians on Saturday will be the former French international Julien Laharrague whose last visit to Munster was with a Montauban side who came so close to lowering Munster colours in an opening Heineken Cup tie two years ago.

Aironi Rugby: Julien Laharrague; Giulio Rubini, Roberto Quartaroli, Dylan Des Fountain, Giulio Toniolatti; Ludovic Mercier, Tito Tebaldi; Alberto De Marchi, Fabio Ongaro, Salvatore Perugini; Carlo Del Fava, Quintin Geldenhuys; Jaco Erasmus, Gareth Krause, Nick Williams. Replacements: Andrea De Marchi, Roberto Santamaria, Luigi Milani, Marco Bortolami, Aldo Birchall, Michael Wilson, Alberto Benettin, Gabriel Pizarro.



That's not a bad Aironi side....

That's what I thought. At least we know what they'll be trying to do. Bully and kick.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 12:46
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting

smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.



If you disagree you could always, you know, disagree.


Absolutely true of course, but it's more the lack of appreciation of the relative merits of real vs. armchair selections that makes this great comedic material.

bosh12
2nd-September-2010, 12:49
For someone who doesnt like arm chair speculation or selections, you sure do spend a lot of time on here

Balla Boy
2nd-September-2010, 12:53
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting

smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.



If you disagree you could always, you know, disagree.





Absolutely true of course, but it's more the lack of appreciation of the relative merits of real vs. armchair selections that makes this great comedic material.



I don't think anyone here is under the impression that the Munster coaching team is taking notes.


They're sharing opinions and points of view, discussing and speculating.


You're welcome to join in or not as suits you. The metacritic bit is pretty pointless.


If you don't think the discussion is worth having, then stay out of it.

Red Hand Hero
2nd-September-2010, 12:54
RHH might correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure the sub scrum half Wilson played for Old Rainey a couple of years ago and was on the same Irish Schools team as Eoin O Malley, Andrew Burke etc.

If its the same Michael Wilson then you are in fact correct. Last seen playing for Malone in the season past...wasn't aware he'd done one to Italy, fair play to the lad all the same if it is.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 12:54
I think the team selected is finesmileys/biggrin.gif

Munsterboy
2nd-September-2010, 12:56
Interesting that Holland, whom I would have thought of
primarily as a back row, and Ryan, whom I would have
thought of as a lock, have switched places over the past
season or so. Holland seems to be adapting well but not so
sure it's the best move for Ryan.

Also interesting to see POM ahead of TOD as cover for 7
(unless the latter's just injured). Quinny and Holland cover
6/8 so no real need for POM's extra versatility.

Red Hand Hero
2nd-September-2010, 13:02
RHH might correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure the sub scrum half Wilson played for Old Rainey a couple of years ago and was on the same Irish Schools team as Eoin O Malley, Andrew Burke etc.

If its the same Michael Wilson then you are in fact correct. Last seen playing for Malone in the season past...wasn't aware he'd done one to Italy, fair play to the lad all the same if it is.


Different Michael Wilson bosh, English born in Bedford-same age though!

Balla Boy
2nd-September-2010, 13:03
RHH might correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure the sub scrum half Wilson played for Old Rainey a couple of years ago and was on the same Irish Schools team as Eoin O Malley, Andrew Burke etc.

If its the same Michael Wilson then you are in fact correct. Last seen playing for Malone in the season past...wasn't aware he'd done one to Italy, fair play to the lad all the same if it is.



Don't think it's him. Their Wilson is this one - Italian U-19 that Sarries had from Viadana for a couple of years:


http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=5324

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 13:11
Interesting that Holland, whom I would
have thought of
primarily as a back row, and Ryan, whom I would have
thought of as a lock, have switched places over the past
season or so. Holland seems to be adapting well but not so
sure it's the best move for Ryan.

Do Australia view the positions as interchangeable? I know
guys like Hines, Elsom etc have swapped between the second
and back row frequently enough.

Bosco
2nd-September-2010, 13:18
For the foreseeable future POC and DOC are Munster and Irelands first choice second row barring injury, maybe Ryan see this as his best chance to play HEC and be more in the frame for Ireland by playing regularly

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 13:20
For the foreseeable future POC and DOC are
Munster and Irelands first choice second row barring injury,
maybe Ryan see this as his best chance to play HEC and be
more in the frame for Ireland by playing regularly*


The barring injury bit is important.

Ryan won't get anywhere near the Irish side playing 6, imo,
except as utility cover.

dropkick
2nd-September-2010, 13:23
It must be frustrating for Dave Ryan and TOD to be left out of
the squad.

Bosco
2nd-September-2010, 13:24
but he wouldn't get anywhere near an irish squad if he is not regularly playing in the HEC.

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 13:26
but he wouldn't get anywhere near an irish
squad if he is not regularly playing in the HEC.


POC will miss the start of the HEC and the November tests
though, so that's Ryan's best chance to get into the Munster
and Irish teams at lock.

POC will presumably be rushed back into both teams
regardless of however his replacement has been playing.

dropkick
2nd-September-2010, 13:30
but he wouldn't get anywhere near an irish
squad if he is not regularly playing in the HEC.


Maybe if they feel he's not that powerful in the scrums they
could put somebody like Ferris there for the scrums. I do think
it's important for scrums to have powerful locks pushing.

With the new law interpretations it should make the game
speed up and that will really suit Donncha Ryan. He's athletic
and have the skills.

Bosco
2nd-September-2010, 13:37
POC will presumably be rushed back into both teams

regardless of however his replacement has been playing.

thats the point I was making (badly obviously smileys/biggrin.gif) if Ryan gets dropped to the bench after Christmas for Munster, it would be hard to justify him being on the bench for Ireland in the 6N. He is not going to play in the back row for Ireland with players lime Leamy Heaslip, Wallace, Ferris, SOB etc all ahead of him but Ryan playing out of position is better for Ireland than Ryan not playing from Irelands point of view

Also playing Ryan @ 6 it allows McGahan to have extra backrow player on the bench to help players like POM get some valuable game time.

Allez Les Rouges
2nd-September-2010, 16:11
For me, this is a reasonably good selection. As regards the backs, everything is as predicted, except that Denis Hurley is the one who has been dropped from the panel in favour of Barnes. Johne Murphy seems to be pleased that he is getting the opportunity he craved and his return home is working out well. Jones will be like a new player for us this year and could be a huge asset in the HC as he will be relatively unknown to our opponents.


The front row may well be our HC front row. Holland's selection in the second row is a surprise as I would have placed Ryan (or Nagle) there alongside MOD. There is no second row replacement on bench so the plan must be to move Ryan from 6 to second row later in the game to allow Quinnie and POM to get some game time as there are two backrow subs on panel.


I accept that there will be disappointment that Dave Ryan loses out but Horan and The Bull need to get some game time and they can do this from the bench. We may need them in October and we do have to get them match fit. The HC is all about the squad. Injuries can deplete our troops and we now have ready made replacements. Just look at Leinster's problems at prop! We had these issues ourselves last year. Dave Ryan will get his game and indeed may move up the pecking order of props as he is the younger man and is bound to be on an upward development gradient.


It is now clear that Fogarty is behind Varley at Munster and Fla will be hard pressed to dislodge Varley once Varley gets a run of games and his confidence increases. He may be seen as more of a "steady Eddie", reliable, a good scrummager, good for the rolling maul etc whereas Fla is too loose and can concede needless penalties and is yellow carded too often! Fla is also injury prone.


I can only presume that TOD is nursing a knock. But McGahon did make some very positive noises about POM during the week so maybe he is anxious to develop himquickly. This will please a few posters around these parts!


Glad to see we are taking this game seriously.

Waterfordlad
2nd-September-2010, 16:24
I agree it looks like a reasonable selection given the options available. Also good to see some real competition for places emerging e.g. Fla and Varley/Fogs.





Roll on 2010/11 season

Luimneach
2nd-September-2010, 16:33
13. S Tuitupou I thought he was a 12 are we seeing the Devillers experiment all over again

dropkick
2nd-September-2010, 17:34
Flannery has proven himself under pressure in big games that
he is an excellent thrower. Fogarty has proven that he cannot
throw the ball in straight. I havn't see enough of Varley but
around the park he looks powerful and is a bit like a
backrower. His throwing is better than Fogarty but it remains
to be seen is it up at Flannerys level yet.

sewa
2nd-September-2010, 17:36
Disappointed with that team selection. Would have preferred to see Nagle and TOD starting smileys/lol.gif I've forwarded this post on to Dumper who has promised to treat it with due merit.


If you disagree you could always, you know, disagree.


Absolutely true of course, but it's more the lack of appreciation of the relative merits of real vs. armchair selections that makes this great comedic material.


I don't think anyone here is under the impression that the Munster coaching team is taking notes.


They're sharing opinions and points of view, discussing and speculating.


You're welcome to join in or not as suits you. The metacritic bit is pretty pointless.


If you don't think the discussion is worth having, then stay out of it. I beg to disagree. They clearly listened to me about giving Marcus and the Bull a second half each smileys/wink.gif

2nd-September-2010, 18:25
I notice we're back to the HEC team selected at the start of
the season regardless on here. Horan and Hayes may
need to get game time but the time is surely past when
either should be walking straight back into the side
regardless of what others have done? To be honest, as
joey pointed out, it makes no difference where Ryan plays,
the second POC is vaguely near fit he'll be straight back in
so Ryan might as well have a shot at a position he won't
get hoiked out of regardless of how well he plays. Also feel
MOD situation is more based on lack of leaders amongst
the squad because if we're selecting on respective talents
Ryan should be comfortably ahead of him.

I'm getting the same cosy feeling of a stale squad that's
too slow to change and too cushy for many to push them
as hard as they should be. I honestly don't see a
difference to the Gaffney era where fringe players had feck
all incentive to put in a performance because they knew
they'd be out the second the big games came around or
the big names were fit.

Anyway, I'll give over now because I just can't be arsed,
it's all so predictably the same faces as soon as they're
back that I see nothing to get enthused about. Good luck
to the fringe players, do yourselves a favour and put on a
show that makes others who'd give you game time come in
with an offer cos until they retire you'll always be behind
the names.

inglorious
2nd-September-2010, 18:37
I notice we're back to the HEC team selected at the start of
the season regardless on here. Horan and Hayes may
need to get game time but the time is surely past when
either should be walking straight back into the side
regardless of what others have done? To be honest, as
joey pointed out, it makes no difference where Ryan plays,
the second POC is vaguely near fit he'll be straight back in
so Ryan might as well have a shot at a position he won't
get hoiked out of regardless of how well he plays. Also feel
MOD situation is more based on lack of leaders amongst
the squad because if we're selecting on respective talents
Ryan should be comfortably ahead of him.

I'm getting the same cosy feeling of a stale squad that's
too slow to change and too cushy for many to push them
as hard as they should be. I honestly don't see a
difference to the Gaffney era where fringe players had feck
all incentive to put in a performance because they knew
they'd be out the second the big games came around or
the big names were fit.

Anyway, I'll give over now because I just can't be arsed,
it's all so predictably the same faces as soon as they're
back that I see nothing to get enthused about. Good luck
to the fringe players, do yourselves a favour and put on a
show that makes others who'd give you game time come in
with an offer cos until they retire you'll always be behind
the names. Maybe weshould pick 23 A. N. OTHERS then none of us would know who was on the bench behind the Name on the pitch.Or maybe 23 nobodies?

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 18:42
I notice we're back to the HEC team
selected at the start of the season regardless on
here.

I don't think that's down to McGahan, it's down to the system
he has to operate in. POC is our captain and a key player for
Ireland in a RWC year, that will impact on his comeback.

Hopefully Horan, Flannery, Hayes will have to fight for their
HEC places, it would be a good place to start.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 18:49
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.

JoeyFantastic
2nd-September-2010, 18:54
Paulie won't be rushed back in.
Not a hope. DK will see to that. &lt;span style="font-weight:
bold;"&gt;If&lt;/span&gt; he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


DK will rush him back if it suits him, he rushed Rory Best back
last year in reasonably similar circumstances. He's not
running a charity.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 19:02
Paulie won't be rushed back in.

Not a hope. DK will see to that. &lt;span style="font-weight:

bold;"&gt;If&lt;/span&gt; he recovers it'll be slowly does it.





DK will rush him back if it suits him, he rushed Rory Best back

last year in reasonably similar circumstances. He's not

running a charity.

We'll see........smileys/biggrin.gif

The Word Is Born
2nd-September-2010, 19:07
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

busbi
2nd-September-2010, 19:09
snap!

Anyone care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?

It might suggest that Management are looking at Ryan to bolster our
backrow this season with Quinne pushing on. There were clear signs to
me anyway that he was struggling with the pace a bit last year.

Haven't been unimpressed with Holland at second row last year, but if
POC is missing i'd prefer Ryan to play alongside DOC than MOD.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 19:21
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.


Probably shouldn't say this but there's more involved in the decision than DK. Work that one out for yourself smileys/biggrin.gif

Point
2nd-September-2010, 19:26
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If he recovers it'll be slowly does it.

That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.


Probably shouldn't say this but there's more involved in the decision than DK. Work that one out for yourself smileys/biggrin.gif




When's his 12 month suspension up then ?

The Word Is Born
2nd-September-2010, 19:28
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.


Probably shouldn't say this but there's more involved in the decision than DK. Work that one out for yourself smileys/biggrin.gif




So it's one of those "I know something you don't know" posts. Do reckon that if you keep this up Ayatollah Pat might ask you out on a date?

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 19:30
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.


Probably shouldn't say this but there's more involved in the decision than DK. Work that one out for yourself smileys/biggrin.gif




So it's one of those "I know something you don't know" posts. Do reckon that if you keep this up Ayatollah Pat might ask you out on a date?


Work it out ya thicko smileys/lol.gif

p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?

bosh12
2nd-September-2010, 19:34
God I love those patronizing smiley faces.

sewa
2nd-September-2010, 19:38
Anyhow. Lovely weather we have been having.

Mebawsa Ritchie
2nd-September-2010, 19:40
God I love those patronizing smiley faces.

Suits you sir smileys/biggrin.gif

bosh12
2nd-September-2010, 19:42
Careful though, I think you have crossed the line into speculation

Call999
2nd-September-2010, 19:42
Paulie won't be rushed back in. Not a hope. DK will see to that. If</span> he recovers it'll be slowly does it.


That sounds like idle bar-stooling speculation, perhaps even f**kwittery but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.


Probably shouldn't say this but there's more involved in the decision than DK. Work that one out for yourself smileys/biggrin.gif




So it's one of those "I know something you don't know" posts. Do reckon that if you keep this up Ayatollah Pat might ask you out on a date?


Work it out ya thicko smileys/lol.gif

p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?


Riddle me, riddle me Randy bow,
My father bought me seed to sow
The seed was black the ground was white
Riddle me that and I'll buy you a pint

tickettout
2nd-September-2010, 19:48
Anyhow. Lovely weather we have been having.


Any tips for the weekend?

sewa
2nd-September-2010, 19:50
Anyhow. Lovely weather we have been having.


Any tips for the weekend?

Will have a look. See you on t'other thread in a while.

Speycaster
2nd-September-2010, 20:08
I know how innacurate some players' bios are on websites so perhaps somebody has better information but recently there has been a suggestion that Nagle is ready to step up to the Munster team. His bio shows him at 6'6" and 15 stone, young Foley is pretty much similar.


If this is accurate then I would respectifully suggest that neither should be within an asses roar of the senior team. They may be talented and have good attitudes but this is how promising players get ruined. I remember POC playing for the Ireland U21s and at the time he was 16.5Stone, he has put on around 14lbs since but surely these other young bucks need to bulk up considerably prior to being ready?

sewa
2nd-September-2010, 20:27
The bio's are BS. Also those of us in Cork saw Nagle play very well in actual games of rugby against decent GP players.

Speycaster
2nd-September-2010, 20:33
The bio's are BS.



I kind of suspected that Sewa but must admit I've never seen him play, hence the question. Most bios tend to try and make players look bigger, the Munster website is the obvious exception. Perhaps a conspiracy by Uncle Pat to lure opponents into a false sense of securitysmileys/lol.gif

McCloud
2nd-September-2010, 20:52
The bio's are BS.



I kind of suspected that Sewa but must admit I've never seen him play, hence the question. Most bios tend to try and make players look bigger, the Munster website is the obvious exception. Perhaps a conspiracy by Uncle Pat to lure opponents into a false sense of securitysmileys/lol.gif





Who know's but I wouldn't take anything written in the bios to be fact and up to date. Also in fairness to play rugby you need a bit more then perfect stats on weight and height you need the ball handling skills, technical ability in tackling and at the breakdown, etc., if you cannot tackle and see what is happening in front of you while playing you'd be better off bring on water bottles as required.

Speycaster
2nd-September-2010, 21:14
The bio's are BS.



I kind of suspected that Sewa but must admit I've never seen him play, hence the question. Most bios tend to try and make players look bigger, the Munster website is the obvious exception. Perhaps a conspiracy by Uncle Pat to lure opponents into a false sense of securitysmileys/lol.gif





Who know's but I wouldn't take anything written in the bios to be fact and up to date. Also in fairness to play rugby you need a bit more then perfect stats on weight and height you need the ball handling skills, technical ability in tackling and at the breakdown, etc., if you cannot tackle and see what is happening in front of you while playing you'd be better off bring on water bottles as required.





I'd agree with that but would hope that the young fellas being selected into the academyhave satisfied most of that criteria,or more to the point have shown thenecessary potential.My point was more out of concern for some talented young guys who may still lack the necessary bulk at the top level, being blooded prematurely.


If that means that certain players don't make the breakthrough until mid 20's, then I think that's fine too.How many of theHEC winners of 2006 &amp; 2008 were ready to play HEC rugby at 20? I do believe in the expression "if you're good enough, you're old enough"and there are always exceptions but very few of those exceptions were lacking in physique.

Parma Jack
3rd-September-2010, 05:22
Any tips for the weekend?




Well I'll go for a shock win for Aironi Rugby, thereby getting their Magners League campaign off to a great start! Some of us Rugby Parma fans over here in Italy have become Aironi season ticket holders, so we have to believe (er...don't we? smileys/doubt.gif).

McCloud
3rd-September-2010, 06:01
Leamy leads Munster into battle
By Barry Coughlan


Friday, September 03, 2010


DENIS LEAMY has had his status as stand-in skipper to the injured Paul O’Connell confirmed with the announcement that he is to lead Munster into Magners League battle against Aironi at Musgrave Park tomorrow (7.30pm).


Leamy led Munster in each of their pre-season friendly matches but now takes his role a stage further as Munster embark on what they regard as a tough assignment against tournament rookies Aironi.


The newly-formed Italian outfit have secured the services of a plethora of international class players, particularly abrasive forwards, for their first season in European competition, and Munster coach Tony McGahan figures the pre-season performances deserve reward for many players, including Leamy.


McGahan starts Mick O’Driscoll alongside Billy Holland in the second row, moves Donncha Ryan to the back row and that means Alan Quinlan is pushed on to the bench, where he will sit alongside seasoned internationals Marcus Horan and John Hayes.


Munster’s strong scrum performance against Gloucester last week, despite the fact that Horan and Hayes are available for the first time, has prompted McGahan to name an unchanged front row trio of Wian du Preez, Damien Varley and Tony Buckley.


They will face an Aironi front row that sees loosehead prop Alberto De Marchi come in alongside Italian internationals Fabio Ongaro and Salvatore Perugini. Carlo Del Fava and Aironi’s skipper Quintin Geldenhuys form the second row while in the back row Jaco Erasmus and Gareth Krause flank former Munster No. 8 Nick Williams.


Tito Tebaldi and Ludovic Mercier start at half back, with the French fly-half recovered from an ankle injury suffered in Northampton in pre-season last Friday. Des Fountain and Roberto Quartaroli play at centre while French international Julien Laharrague plays at full-back with Giulio Rubini and Giulio Toniolatti on the wings.



This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, September 03, 2010


Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/leamy-leads-munster (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/leamy-leads-munster-into-battle-129675.html#ixzz0yS37dNXA) -into-battle-129675.html#ixzz0yS37dNXA s

mr chips
3rd-September-2010, 06:15
Best of luck to Leamy with the captaincy.

The season proper is nearly upon us, can't wait. The telly is booked and the drink is bought in. Gwan Munster!!smileys/biggrin.gif

McCloud
3rd-September-2010, 06:23
The Irish Times - Friday, September 3, 2010


Munster alter pack for Italian job
GERRY THORNLEY


MUNSTER HAVE rejigged their pack for the visit of Italian League debutants Aironi to Musgrave Park on Saturday, with Mick O’Driscoll and Billy Holland forming a new secondrow combination and Niall Ronan starting at openside.


Donnacha Ryan reverts to blindside flanker, to the exclusion of Alan Quinlan, who thus joins returning internationals John Hayes and Marcus Horan on the bench.


In the ongoing absence of the injured Paul O’Connell, Keith Earls and the rest of their international contingent who are still in pre-season, the fully fit again Denis Leamy continues to captain the side.


There are competitive debuts for ex-All Blacks centre Sam Tuitupou and ex-Leicester utility back Johne Murphy in midfield, while Felix Jones’ good pre-season form earns him the fullback spot in his first competitive outing in almost 11 months.


Meanwhile, Munster include three Academy players, outhalf Gareth Quinn-McDonagh and centres JJ Hanrahan and Corey Hircock in their under-20 side for the interprovincial against Ulster at the Mardyke (7pm).


As expected, Aironon have picked a highly experienced tight five, featuring Italian internationals Fabio Ongaro and Salvatore Perugini alongside Alberto de Marchi in the frontrow, and fellow Azzurri men Carlo Del Fava and skipper Quintin Geldenhuys in the secondrow.


In the backrow, Jaco Erasmus and Gareth Krause pack down either side of ex-Munster number eight Nick Williams. Tito Tebaldi and Ludovic Mercier start at halfback, with the French outhalf recovered from an ankle injury he suffered in the 38-5 defeat in Northampton last week.


Des Fountain and Quartaroli play at centre while 12 times capped French International Julien Laharrague is the fullback.


MUNSTER (v Aironi): F Jones; D Howlett, S Tuitupou, J Murphy, I Dowling; P Warwick, P Stringer; W du Preez, D Varley, T Buckley, M ODriscoll, B Holland; D Ryan, N Ronan, D Leamy (capt). Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, J Hayes, A Quinlan, P OMahony, D Williams, S Deasy, D Barnes.


MUNSTER U20s: J Holland, L Kuntz, C Hircock, JJ Hanrahan, C Quinn, G Quinn-McDonagh, R Barry, N Scannell, K O’Byrne, P Mullen, S Buckley, T Goggin, C O’Flaherty, S Hanbidge, L Cahill. Replacements: J Rael, J Randles, D O’Mahony, R O’Herlihy, E O’Shaughnessy, D Horgan, J Costigan.

Point
3rd-September-2010, 06:27
Where's that kuntz on the wing from ?

3rd-September-2010, 06:44
TOD took 2 very hard hits into the ribs against Gloucester. The second one was a needless late tackle with a shoulder into his ribs after he had been down about 10 mins earlier for the same thing. He was being seen to after the game and 1 other, I think it was NAgle came away with quite a limp.
I was looking, last night at the little fellas squad poster from last season and it struck me how far POC has to go to get back to there. You can see a huge difference. I hope he does make it back and best of luck to him.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, I cannot wait for tomorrow.
C'MON MUNSTER!</font></span></span>smileys/biggrin.gif

Bosco
3rd-September-2010, 06:48
p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?


you?

Canterbury
3rd-September-2010, 06:51
I find it very strange that we are playing Ryan whom has always been a second row at 6 and Holland whom has always been a wing forward at second row.

Talking Sense
3rd-September-2010, 06:54
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.

3rd-September-2010, 06:59
This is the Munster squad that saw MOD playing BS on
occasions when he clearly isn't the best option for it. We
seem to like having locks who can play BS so Ryan gets
more exposure at BS, which he needs since he's been
primarily a lock and Holland gets more exposure at lock,
which he needs since he's been operating more as a back
row last few seasons. If they're trying to bring about this
multi-tasking then it makes sense to play them out of
position. If we're aiming to play a 4-4 split in the pack, ie a
front 4 and a back 4, then it makes sense. If we're just
doing this to shoehorn guys into other positions to keep
them involved then it worries me. Considering the head
shed seem to like playing basketball rugby I'd guess
they're keen on the back 4 pack selection.

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 07:00
p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?


you?



A panel of me, Willy Joe and a representative of GIPSI (Gay Itinerant and Pikey Schoolteachers of Ireland).

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 07:03
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.


Logical conclusion, but not very good news. Does anyone really think that Ryan looks like a top class 6? He's mobile and athletic for a lock, but I'd be far less excited about his long term prospects as a full time blind side.


As a lock, there's a clear succession route for him into an Ireland shirt. He's behind a minibus full of players for a back row slot.

Mebawsa Ritchie
3rd-September-2010, 07:03
p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?


you?



A panel of me, Willy Joe and a representative of GIPSI (Gay Itinerant and Pikey Schoolteachers of Ireland).

Excellent contribution smileys/lol.gif

3rd-September-2010, 07:08
The only thing to stop POC being rushed back is him and how
ready he feels. How that part goes is anyone's guess, he'll
want to play, but he's also competitive enough to know he
wants to play properly, but he's also competitive enough to
push himself to play - tough one to call.

My worry is Munster will be used as a training ground for him
while form players are dropped to allow that. Not a dig at
POC so much as the it's seemed to me that the relationship
from Munster to national team is much closer (ie certain
selections regardless of form) than is necessarily good for
Munster.

Canterbury
3rd-September-2010, 07:09
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.


Logical conclusion, but not very good news. Does anyone really think that Ryan looks like a top class 6? He's mobile and athletic for a lock, but I'd be far less excited about his long term prospects as a full time blind side.


As a lock, there's a clear succession route for him into an Ireland shirt. He's behind a minibus full of players for a back row slot.





I agree, I think Ryan could be a top class international second row but not a top class international 6. Dont rate Holland at all, would prefer to see Nagle in there.

3rd-September-2010, 07:13
Does anyone else think Ryan (considering his age) is on the
cusp of missing the boat at international level.

Tony Soprano
3rd-September-2010, 07:14
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.


Logical conclusion, but not very good news. Does anyone really think that Ryan looks like a top class 6? He's mobile and athletic for a lock, but I'd be far less excited about his long term prospects as a full time blind side.


As a lock, there's a clear succession route for him into an Ireland shirt. He's behind a minibus full of players for a back row slot.





I agree, I think Ryan could be a top class international second row but not a top class international 6. Dont rate Holland at all, would prefer to see Nagle in there.





I've seen Ryan playing for Shannon a few times over the last 2 years andI don't see him making the step up. While he may be mobile he just doesn't have the brutality required to be a 1st grade Second row. When you're not the stand out performer on the field at AIL Div 1 level - it aint looking good.

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 07:19
p.s. Hint - Who else could feasibly be involved in the decision to allow POC resume playing?


you?



A panel of me, Willy Joe and a representative of GIPSI (Gay Itinerant and Pikey Schoolteachers of Ireland).




Excellent contribution smileys/lol.gif



I tried to resist, but the spirit of smart-arsedness was too powerful. smileys/lol.gif

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 07:23
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.


Logical conclusion, but not very good news. Does anyone really think that Ryan looks like a top class 6? He's mobile and athletic for a lock, but I'd be far less excited about his long term prospects as a full time blind side.


As a lock, there's a clear succession route for him into an Ireland shirt. He's behind a minibus full of players for a back row slot.





I agree, I think Ryan could be a top class international second row but not a top class international 6. Dont rate Holland at all, would prefer to see Nagle in there.





I've seen Ryan playing for Shannon a few times over the last 2 years andI don't see him making the step up. While he may be mobile he just doesn't have the brutality required to be a 1st grade Second row. When you're not the stand out performer on the field at AIL Div 1 level - it aint looking good.





Is that something likely to develop? Is it a necessity if he has the right player next to him?


I'd agree that he doesn't look ferocious enough. Though that's hardly a quality that a good blindside can do without either.


Could someone not just chain him up in a dark room and beat him around the face with lumps of raw meat for a couple of weeks or something?

Canterbury
3rd-September-2010, 07:23
Perhaps Holland is a better man for pushing in the scrums due
to his stockier build and thats why they have him in there.
Plus DR is faster than him so hes suited to break quickly off
the side of the scrum in attack and defence.

Just a thought.


Logical conclusion, but not very good news. Does anyone really think that Ryan looks like a top class 6? He's mobile and athletic for a lock, but I'd be far less excited about his long term prospects as a full time blind side.


As a lock, there's a clear succession route for him into an Ireland shirt. He's behind a minibus full of players for a back row slot.





I agree, I think Ryan could be a top class international second row but not a top class international 6. Dont rate Holland at all, would prefer to see Nagle in there.





I've seen Ryan playing for Shannon a few times over the last 2 years andI don't see him making the step up. While he may be mobile he just doesn't have the brutality required to be a 1st grade Second row. When you're not the stand out performer on the field at AIL Div 1 level - it aint looking good.





He was excellent against the All Blacks.

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 07:29
He was excellent against the All Blacks.





That was a very open game though. Is he likely to put the proverbial fear of god into his opposite number in the sort of toe to toe stuff that we need to get back to?


He seems to embody the way the pack has gone over the last couple of years - skilled, athletic and great in an open game, but missing a gear on the "boot, bite and bollock" front when we end up being brutalised. The key difference in our games against Leinster over the last couple of years is that they have absolutely torn into us in the tight.


Is that a balance that he's going to help redress? Is he just suffering from a malaise that's been generally pointed out in our forwards game?


More importantly, does the technology exist to transplant Flannery's brain into his body?

Canterbury
3rd-September-2010, 07:33
He was excellent against the All Blacks.





That was a very open game though. Is he likely to put the proverbial fear of god into his opposite number in the sort of toe to toe stuff that we need to get back to?


He seems to embody the way the pack has gone over the last couple of years - skilled, athletic and great in an open game, but missing a gear on the "boot, bite and bollock" front when we end up being brutalised. The key difference in our games against Leinster over the last couple of years is that they have absolutely torn into us in the tight.


Is that a balance that he's going to help redress? Is he just suffering from a malaise that's been generally pointed out in our forwards game?


More importantly, does the technology exist to transplant Flannery's brain into his body?





Ryan is excellent in the tight.... Hits rucks, can carry ball and is decent in mauls.

Buceph
3rd-September-2010, 08:05
TOD took 2 very hard hits into the ribs against
Gloucester. The second one was a needless late tackle with a shoulder
into his ribs after he had been down about 10 mins earlier for the same
thing. He was being seen to after the game and 1 other, I think it was
NAgle came away with quite a limp.



It was obvious after the first one that he was shaken, but the second
one took him out completely. So I'd agree that they're resting. I have
heard that his ribs aren't broken though, so at most it'll be another
week or two, depending on the level of brusing.



I can't wait for the match though. Biggest thing I'll be watching is who
exactly is rucking from the forwards and who is being put out the line
into defense. I think that'll be the most important thing going forward
(bar the obvious pure quality concerns, but this is actively tactical.)
I'd like to see if they're relying less on the drift and more on a rugby
league style mixed defense.If the front five can successfully hold a ruck without the backrow becoming involved it opens up a host of possibilities.

G'WAM MUNSTER

JoeyFantastic
3rd-September-2010, 10:11
He was excellent against the All Blacks.





That was a very open game though. Is he likely to put
the proverbial fear of god into his opposite number in the
sort of toe to toe stuff that we need to get back to?


He seems to embody the way the pack has gone over
the last couple of years - skilled, athletic and great in an
open game, but missing a gear on the "boot, bite and
bollock" front when we end up being brutalised. The key
difference in our games against Leinster over the last
couple of years is that they have absolutely torn into us in
the tight.


Is that a balance that he's going to help redress? Is he
just suffering from a malaise that's been generally pointed
out in our forwards game?


More importantly, does the technology exist to
transplant Flannery's brain into his body?

It seems a lot of the upcoming forwards are nice guys,
guys who'd buy you a drink, guys you could trust with your
sister etc. This is obviously a complete disaster. Anyone
remember how vicious Leamy was when he was coming
through? DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see
any proper b*****ds in the set-up?

Buceph
3rd-September-2010, 10:50
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see

any proper b*****ds in the set-up?

I disagree on the DOC front. I was a few years below him in Christians and he was always known as a nice guy. My younger brother who was in the primary school at the time was one of the pich invasion back slappers, and Donnacha was always great to them, back slapping back and ruffling hair. Especially when other dudes would push through you. And I've heard he's the autograph annode. After a match, if the lads want a quiet getaway Donnacha is happy to head out grab the attention of every screaming seven year old and let the rest of them slink off.





On a different topic, does anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs clubhouse or something.

3rd-September-2010, 10:55
The question is would you trade the stupid penalties Leamy
and DOC constantly gave away, especially against Leinster, or
would you take those penalties if it brought their aggression
levels? There have been times in last couple of seasons
where the forwards looked stunned by the ferocity of Leinster
pack - now that's something you should never hear about
Munster.

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 10:59
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see
any proper b*****ds in the set-up?

I disagree on the DOC front. I was a few years below him in Christians and he was always known as a nice guy. My younger brother who was in the primary school at the time was one of the pich invasion back slappers, and Donnacha was always great to them, back slapping back and ruffling hair. Especially when other dudes would push through you. And I've heard he's the autograph annode. After a match, if the lads want a quiet getaway Donnacha is happy to head out grab the attention of every screaming seven year old and let the rest of them slink off.





On a different topic, does anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs clubhouse or something.






I think Joey means on the field, Buceph. POC and DOC are transformed when the cross the touchline.


Fla, Quinnie, Horan, Leamy are all guys that have walked the line in terms of managed aggression (and often fallen over it).


That's allowed guys like Wally and The Bull to get involved in that sort of stuff less.


Who among the next generation of forwards is going to be photographed screaming into the face of two broken Englishmen?

JoeyFantastic
3rd-September-2010, 11:03
I'm not really concerned if they are nice guys off the pitch,
but on the pitch we could do with less gentlemen. While it's
heartening to see Nagle and POM get red cards in the AIL, not
so sure either is really vicious.

Buceph
3rd-September-2010, 11:04
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see
any proper b*****ds in the set-up?

I disagree on the DOC front. I was a few years below him in Christians and he was always known as a nice guy. My younger brother who was in the primary school at the time was one of the pich invasion back slappers, and Donnacha was always great to them, back slapping back and ruffling hair. Especially when other dudes would push through you. And I've heard he's the autograph annode. After a match, if the lads want a quiet getaway Donnacha is happy to head out grab the attention of every screaming seven year old and let the rest of them slink off.





On a different topic, does anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs clubhouse or something.






I think Joey means on the field, Buceph. POC and DOC are transformed when the cross the touchline.




Ah, fair enough. I just thought when he was saying you wouldn't trust your sister with them that he thinks they're outside Hillbilly's on a Thursday night starting fights with the poofy UCC Stoodents.




Donnacha has managed his aggression much better in the past two years though. For a while I was always worried when there'd be something off the ball, that he'd do something stupid and get a yellow card. In the past two years though he's had a much more level head and is more likely to calm a situation down than provoke something.




I think the one to watch for aggresion is Mushy. He was fantastic last weekend, rucking where he had no right to, and slowing down/bashing f**kers out of the way. He really got the crowd going with it.




Edit: Joey, I'm not sure I agree with you. There's only so many Quinnies we can have on the team. And there's been plenty of times when he's cost us and made a situation difficult. Aggresion is good, acting the scut isn't. And if we have one person walking the line, we'll do well. If we have an entire pack doing a balancing act we'll be in trouble.

Balla Boy
3rd-September-2010, 11:05
The question is would you trade the stupid penalties Leamy
and DOC constantly gave away, especially against Leinster, or
would you take those penalties if it brought their aggression
levels? There have been times in last couple of seasons
where the forwards looked stunned by the ferocity of Leinster
pack - now that's something you should never hear about
Munster.


It might not always come with the penalty count, though. When everyone steps up to that level of aggression, like in Perp last year, we blow the opposition away.


The penalty count comes when the couple of players who are more pumped are trying to stem the tide against a pack that's putting us on the back foot.


I think your description of the pack reaction to Leinster is spot on. In both the HEC semi and the games last year they seemed to be rocked a bit by the Leinster attack.


It's not the technicalities of the tight play, but the sort of intensity that POC has talked about getting back in some of the pre-season interviews.


As a for instance, I don't think that our pack intensity for much of last year would have seen off Perp at Landsdowne road the way we did in 2006, or beaten Leinster in the Semi at Landsdowne either.


Yet we showed in Perp that we still had the fitness, power and skills to put in a performance of that intensity.

Paulie Walnuts
3rd-September-2010, 11:08
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see
any proper b*****ds in the set-up?


On a different topic, does anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs clubhouse or something.



You'll have more comfort inthe Well clubhouse than the downstairs Dophin bar, always much less crowded.

3rd-September-2010, 11:11
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either.
Anyone see any proper b*****ds in the set-up?I
disagree on the DOC front. I was a few years below him in
Christians and he was always known as a nice guy. My
younger brother who was in the primary school at the time
was one of the pich invasion back slappers, and Donnacha
was always great to them, back slapping back and ruffling
hair. Especially when other dudes would push through you.
And I've heard he's the autograph annode. After a match,
if the lads want a quiet getaway Donnacha is happy to head
out grab the attention of every screaming seven year old
and let the rest of them slink off. On a different topic, does
anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch
the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs
clubhouse or something.


*


I think Joey means on the field, Buceph. POC and DOC
are transformed when the cross the
touchline.



Ah, fair enough. I just
thought when he was saying you wouldn't trust your sister
with them that he thinks they're outside Hillbilly's on a
Thursday night starting fights with the poofy UCC
Stoodents.



Donnacha has managed his
aggression much better in the past two years though. For a
while I was always worried when there'd be something off
the ball, that he'd do something stupid and get a yellow
card. In the past two years though he's had a much more
level head and is more likely to calm a situation down than
provoke something.



I think the one to watch
for aggresion is Mushy. He was fantastic last weekend,
rucking where he had no right to, and slowing
down/bashing f**kers out of the way. He really got the
crowd going with it.



Edit: Joey, I'm not sure I
agree with you. There's only so many Quinnies we can
have on the team. And there's been plenty of times when
he's cost us and made a situation difficult. Aggresion is
good, acting the scut isn't. And if we have one person
walking the line, we'll do well. If we have an entire pack
doing a balancing act we'll be in trouble.

On the DOC issue, I honestly think it's interesting how
much more "grown up" he's been on the pitch the less POC
has been around. Having seen an interview with him a
while back it may be more than that as he mentioned about
training with the youngsters, knowing he needs to step up
to keep his place etc so there's probably a focus thing but
you do wonder if a personality like POC sometimes either
stifles the others or allows them to not act more
responsibly?

dropkick
3rd-September-2010, 11:11
Toulouse have Millo-Chluski playing as a lock. He's not very
athletic and not very tall but he's 19st and very strong. They
use their backrow alot for lineouts so I think Millo-Chluski is
there mainly for scrums and mauls etc. Munster could do with
someone like that too.

Buceph
3rd-September-2010, 11:21
DOC wasn't exactly an angel either. Anyone see
any proper b*****ds in the set-up?


On a different topic, does anyone know if you'd be able to get into Muzzer to watch the Connacht match at 5.30? In the Dolphin downstairs clubhouse or something.



You'll have more comfort inthe Well clubhouse than the downstairs Dophin bar, always much less crowded.

Ok. Might take a look. My big concern though is that some year they'll turn it to a members only thing. Especially if they start getting really busy.


I'm not really concerned if they are nice guys off the pitch,

but on the pitch we could do with less gentlemen. While it's

heartening to see Nagle and POM get red cards in the AIL, not

so sure either is really vicious.

If you talk to these guys there's just as much aggression as there was with anyone else. And they don't confine that to the pitch either, they'll go for each other on the training pitch as well. Which I think is something that the previous seasons was lacking. It looked like the majority of players were being protected because it was felt that the young guys weren't ready for the step up. This year with the young guys being brough in, and much more competition, I think we'll see aggression levels going back up. Especially as there will be less protected players and far more competition (at least as much as their contracts allow.)

The one thing I would be worried about is the young guys fla'ing themselves out. I'd say the Con guys would be least affected, as they have a generally higher standard, but it'll still get to them, basically that no longer are they the best player on the team. With their clubs they're the guys who are looked to to up everyone elses performance, and as such they're generally ubiquitous, and have a much higher work rate (with aggression being part of it.) With Magner's matches being a step up in skill and intensity they're going to have to learn to be a bit more canny with their play. They won't be expected to do everything and be everything for everyone. For the moment they'll just have to learn to get their eye in at this level.

Basically, I think the lads these days are just as aggressive as the older guys. The big difference is that they're coming into an established professional setup. When our stalwarts were starting off, they were still dealing with a situation with remnants of amatuer days. But these kids are the first to have had their eyes on a pro setup since they were little kids. (Although the Academy was slow to get off the ground.) So I'd imagine they're far more coached in smart play than the sheer aggression and "Spirit" of the 90s.

My main point though is that I think we will see far more aggression. Players will be less protected and there's going to be more pressure on positions. I'd just be a bit worried that the young guys coming up don't try and be everything to everyone and concentrate on bring themselves into a team.





On the DOC issue, I honestly think it's interesting how

much more "grown up" he's been on the pitch the less POC

has been around. Having seen an interview with him a

while back it may be more than that as he mentioned about

training with the youngsters, knowing he needs to step up

to keep his place etc so there's probably a focus thing but

you do wonder if a personality like POC sometimes either

stifles the others or allows them to not act more

responsibly?

There's so many things it could be I think we'll never know, and the biggest clue we'll get is Donners retirement (ghosted) auto-biography. All things being said though I'd imagine it's a combination of being an elder statesman, more alone time and expectations with POC being missing, the pressure he was getting from here and the media with the silly yellows, and just a bit of aging smarts.<br

Downsouthdukin
4th-September-2010, 01:45
snap! Anyone
care to explain the Holland/Ryan thing to me?



Holland is a second row at this stage, its where he has
played most of his games for Munster. Ryan is a far more
athletic player, more suited to 6. In reality, they ll both be
jumping in the lineout, Holland is bigger than Ryan so quite
possibly a better scrummager, I dont see why everyone is
getting so excited.


POM on bench ahead of TOD, presume thats because he
covers more positions in backrow, whereas TOD would in
reality only cover 7 and 6 at a push.

smileys/thumb-up.gif smileys/thumb-up.gif

dropkick
4th-September-2010, 15:58
Good day of rugby so far. Lets hope Munster gel tonight and
score a few tries.

munsterbouy
4th-September-2010, 16:08
Any Chance of some updates please?

Charco
4th-September-2010, 16:20
Where's that kuntz on the wing from ?

He's from Ennis originally, moved down to Munchin's for Senior Cup in 5th/6th Yr.

Any streams for this game guys? Can't find anything over here in Canada!

Kerry-Exile
4th-September-2010, 16:28
I can't seem to find a working stream for this so updates would be welcome

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 16:30
OK, here we go at last . G'wan Munster.

The Crimson King
4th-September-2010, 16:37
It's live on rte.ie, will that not let you watch, Exile?

markcaver
4th-September-2010, 16:37
In the chatroom for live updates</span></font>

Sian24
4th-September-2010, 16:37
I can't seem to find a working stream for this so updates would be welcome


Try this - http://www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/363563632

lactose intolerant
4th-September-2010, 16:37
ryle seems to think every aironi lad with a tan is nick williamssmileys/sad.gif

Eastender
4th-September-2010, 16:41
[QUOTE=Kerry-Exile]I can't seem to find
a working stream for this so updates would be welcome



Try this -
<a href="http://www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/363563632" target="_blank">http:
//www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/363563632</a>[/QUO
TE]
cheers Sian

dropkick
4th-September-2010, 16:41
Good scrummaging so far!

Kerry-Exile
4th-September-2010, 16:44
I can't seem to find a working stream for this so updates would be welcome


Try this - http://www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/363563632

Cheers Sian

Charco
4th-September-2010, 16:47
Great link cheers

gelly
4th-September-2010, 16:50
http://www.iraqgoals.tv/ch4.html

BPH1
4th-September-2010, 16:53
Absolutely atrocious first 20 for Munster

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 16:58
Try Jones.

BPH1
4th-September-2010, 16:59
More like it, ball in hand against these lads and they'll score a bagfull

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 17:00
Warwick misses convert..

ConnachtFan
4th-September-2010, 17:02
Howlett has completely lost the pace he had when he first
joined us.

ConnachtFan
4th-September-2010, 17:03
Munster starting to look good now though.

Arthur Guinness
4th-September-2010, 17:04
Howlett has completely lost the pace
he had when he first
joined us.


Wasn't there some guy a while back that was shorn of his
locks and also lost his great powers? Sam something.....

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 17:05
Sh1t.

BPH1
4th-September-2010, 17:06
smileys/lol.gifDear lord

Arthur Guinness
4th-September-2010, 17:08
Another lineout lost.

Charco
4th-September-2010, 17:13
What was Stringer waitin for??

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 17:14
Another lineout lost.

...and getting turned over in the ruck.

markcaver
4th-September-2010, 17:14
good gang in the chatroom</span></font>

dropkick
4th-September-2010, 17:20
Midfield, locks and backrow are looking off the pace.

Thomond78
4th-September-2010, 17:20
Niall Ronan is having a stinker, thus far.

Scrum's excellent. Time to just go route one, I suspect. Keep
it tight, and no messing around.

art vandelay
4th-September-2010, 17:21
george must have done a bit of shopping in mannix and culhanes,a terrible jacket

bogsnorkler
4th-September-2010, 17:24
Chatroom's not really working for me. i log in but see no
dialogue

slipper1
4th-September-2010, 17:27
Munster should pull away in the second half, we'll see a different side now after McGahan's teamtalk smileys/wink.gif

kahalui
4th-September-2010, 17:37
stringers playing well.

NiallGK
4th-September-2010, 17:38
Munster beginning to pull away now. 23-11.

nuke
4th-September-2010, 17:38
should we have been allowed to take that lineout fast though ?

slipper1
4th-September-2010, 17:39
try buckley and ronan. munster 23-11


felix jones is the best of the munster players

Dave Cahill
4th-September-2010, 17:40
should we have been allowed to take that
lineout fast though ?

No, the ball goes into the crowd, the ballboy throws the ball to
the munster player. In that situation a quick lineout is not
allowed.

nuke
4th-September-2010, 17:42
should we have been allowed to take that
lineout fast though ?

No, the ball goes into the crowd, the ballboy throws the ball to
the munster player. In that situation a quick lineout is not
allowed.


That was my gut feeling but if it was on the mark and aironi players were there is it classed a fast lineout ?

Dave Cahill
4th-September-2010, 17:49
should we have been allowed to take that lineout fast though
? No, the ball goes into the crowd, the ballboy
throws the ball to the munster player. In that situation a quick
lineout is not allowed.


That was my gut feeling but if it was on the mark and
aironi players were there is it classed a fast lineout ?


Two players from each side are required to form a lineout, so
thats covered. However every other player must be onside
and outside the exclusion zone. Immaterial now however.

Dave Cahill
4th-September-2010, 17:53
That was a sweet bit of play

kahalui
4th-September-2010, 17:53
well played murphy

murroe
4th-September-2010, 17:53
Too many errors not much to be happy with

nuke
4th-September-2010, 17:55
Too many errors not much to be happy with


would ya feck off ya wum haha


Bonus point secured with twenty to go. Ask Leinster would they take it smileys/wink.gif

kahalui
4th-September-2010, 17:57
scrums worse since the front row was changed

4th-September-2010, 17:59
Too many standing around watching and shoving people there

blackwarrior
4th-September-2010, 18:00
I'm watching the second half, but missed the first. Munster look like they're comfortable. Have they picked it up in this period?

4th-September-2010, 18:01
should ask the TH to gob off at Horan before every scrum,
that's the first he's actually bound at the engage and done a
job on the guy

Dave Cahill
4th-September-2010, 18:02
Too many errors not
much to be happy with*


would ya feck off ya wum haha


Bonus point secured with twenty to go. Ask Leinster would
they take it smileys/wink.gif

I'd perfectly happy if Munster played like this for the rest of
the season smileys/wink.gif

4th-September-2010, 18:03
Some good clearing of bodies at rucks the last few.

4th-September-2010, 18:10
my concern is how long we'll get away with the early drive
feed to second row tactic

nuke
4th-September-2010, 18:10
Too many errors not
much to be happy with



would ya feck off ya wum haha



Bonus point secured with twenty to go. Ask Leinster would
they take it smileys/wink.gif






I'd perfectly happy if Munster played like this for the rest of
the season smileys/wink.gif


as i would be if Leinster play as they did last night

4th-September-2010, 18:11
no way is that a try

4th-September-2010, 18:12
short of the line and then stolen away

4th-September-2010, 18:14
That was silly

Charco
4th-September-2010, 18:17
FT 33-17.

dropkick
4th-September-2010, 18:21
Poor overall.

The lineouts were poor.

Bad handling and decision making. Whenever the ball was
passed out of a ruck there was nobody running onto the
ball at pace.

The midfield offered nothing. They need time to gel and
maybe putting Barnes in there and putting Johne Murphy
out on the wing.

The big positive was the scrums. The scrums were much
improved from last season.

Thomond78
4th-September-2010, 18:23
Ronan picked it up, big time (albeit I'm convinced Murphy
actually grounded it) and we started clearing bodies much
better.

Scrappy enough, early season stuff, but still, a bonus win is
a bonus win. And there's a lot of good stuff as well as stuff
to work on.

Bald Dougie looks good, on the second half. With him and
Jones, we're going to open teams up, sooner rather than
later. Stringer was very good. And the scrum was a
delight; we were well on top of a good unit. And it does
look like someone has found the "ON" button for Mushy;
thank God.

As for Aironi, they can play, no question about it. Mix it up
well, not afraid to move it and hoof it; the Italians look like
damned good recruits for the ML, on today's showing.

munster cat
4th-September-2010, 18:27
Horan does not Bind in the scrum ? This is a basic requirement and on one occassion the Ref came round to him and he does it again and guess what a penalty. Dont understand why Du Preez was taken off ?


The pluses in the match were;


Du Preez, Dougie, Jones, Warwick,Ronan, Mushy at times and Danny Barnes in his cameo.


Lots of work there to sort out.

Dave Cahill
4th-September-2010, 18:28
Howlett exudes class. Someone said earlier that he had lost
his pace, which I don't think he has one iota

dropkick
4th-September-2010, 18:31
Howlett exudes class. Someone said
earlier that he had lost
his pace, which I don't think he has one iota

He should have been MOTM. Ronan was average again.

Thomond78
4th-September-2010, 18:35
I would have been very tempted to give it, jointly, to Wian,
Mushy and Howlett. The first two broke the back of a good
scrum, and Mushy worked his tits off.

4th-September-2010, 18:36
The silly thing about Horan not binding was the one time he
did he skewed the TH and got a penalty off him. We're clearly
trying the engage, drive and in asap tactic at the scrums, ie
don't let it turn into a scrummaging contest - which isn't a bad
thing.

B.A.
4th-September-2010, 18:38
Agreed about Dougie. Deffo the best player on the pitch.

Holland is a very good ball carrier. He's far more effective than MOD.

Humpty Dumpty
4th-September-2010, 18:38
Poor game, why Warwick kicked for goal with 10 mins left and
33-17 up I will never know smileys/sad.gif

4th-September-2010, 18:39
Poor game, why Warwick kicked
for goal with 10 mins left and
33-17 up I will never know smileys/sad.gif

Needs the match practice? Good long range effort, better
than his kicking a couple of years back, maybe they also
wanted to notch up points.