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rathbaner
8th-July-2010, 16:50
What's happened?

Apply here (http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7677.php)

Mucky Boots
8th-July-2010, 16:53
No harm.

Cathal
8th-July-2010, 17:00
McCarthy was a very short term appointment.smileys/confused.gif

Nice to see a dedicated Munster scrum-coach, Point will be happy.

No. 16
8th-July-2010, 17:36
Was McCarthy still working for DK and Gert this summer on the Ireland
Scrum? He was during the 6N right?

davidos
8th-July-2010, 17:45
McCarthy was a very short term
appointment.*smileys/confused.gifNice to see a
dedicated Munster scrum-coach, Point will be happy.


Point has his application in. Also got 'Back to basics' jerseys
made and has the players wearing them

locomotion
8th-July-2010, 19:24
New props signed and now looking for a full time specialist scrum coach. Someone has woken up in Munster Rugby ..... AT LAST.


If this works out our prophets of doom may have toput their sackcloth and ashes back into storage for a while.

McCloud
8th-July-2010, 19:35
McCarthy was a very short term appointment.smileys/confused.gif

Nice to see a dedicated Munster scrum-coach, Point will be happy.



Yeah that's a bit strange. How long did he last, 3 months?

Point
8th-July-2010, 20:08
McCarthy was a very short term appointment.smileys/confused.gif

Nice to see a dedicated Munster scrum-coach, Point will be happy.



Yes he is !!!As I said in another thread, the position offered to Paul McCarthy was madness when you considering the complete and utter mess the scrum is, in the entire province of Munster (honourable exceptions noted). I should point out that McCarthy's job was Munster and Ireland pro teams, which utterly neglected the problems in the province.


The Ad on the Deadsite, is AFAIK almost a photocopy of the brief that Reggie Corrigan had within Leinster upto last season (except IIRC they have now gone further and brought in another scrum coach for the pro side).


Thankfully, someone has brought a bit of sanity to it, and for that I welcome it.


Hopefully the one chosen will be some complete b*****d from South Africa or Argentina smileys/wink.gif

Allez Les Rouges
8th-July-2010, 20:08
Very short notice. Posted this evening Wednesday (8th July) and closing date for applications is next Wednesday evening. Has the vacancy been unexpected? Otherwise, this should have been placed several weeks back and a longer response time given. not sure you are going to get a good response given the short notice and response time. Certainly it was not expected!


Suggests that there were differences of opinion and that there was a hasty departure.


Surely we should now look for the best even if we have to go to New Zealand rather having a rushed appointment? Or has someone already been lined up and this notice is for optics to show how democratic we are?


Something not quite right about all of this? Is McCarthy taking the blame for the poor end of season?

Point
8th-July-2010, 20:17
Or has someone already been lined up and this notice is for optics to show how democratic we are?





Wouldn't be the first time.

munster_mafia
8th-July-2010, 20:28
Id say we already have the guy.

McCloud
8th-July-2010, 20:39
Or has someone already been lined up and this notice is for optics to show how democratic we are?





Wouldn't be the first time.





Or the last......

Canterbury
9th-July-2010, 07:10
Personally I would live to see Reggie Corrigan given the post.

Point
9th-July-2010, 08:02
Personally I would live to see Reggie Corrigan given the post.





Be careful what you wish for ! smileys/lol.gif

bobbin
9th-July-2010, 08:45
wonder will it turn out that Paul McCarthy will get the job. This may just be a function to regularise the situation from HR perspective.

ruckinhell
9th-July-2010, 09:14
This isa good development from a Munster perspective.





I'd like a national scrum director a la Noriega with Australia to coordinate aconcerted Irish widescrummingeffort but I suppose you get the provinces sorted and the nationalscrum will hopefully follow.

2nd58
9th-July-2010, 09:34
wonder will it turn out that <S&#079;NG>Paul McCarthy will get the job</S&#079;NG>. This may just be a function to regularise the situation from HR perspective.


Bingo. smileys/wink.gif.


Reggie is Head Coach of Greystones next year.

Tony Soprano
9th-July-2010, 10:28
Big Vic is surely the man for the job here

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 10:47
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.

ruckinhell
9th-July-2010, 11:11
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 11:22
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.
Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.

JoeyFantastic
9th-July-2010, 11:38
Typical, why not do this at
the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at
the moment, this appointment* will be far too late ( 2 years in fact)
and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a
guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season
training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season.
An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should
have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the
embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going
to be an afterthough.


*


As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passion*what
would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back*3 years*in
time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that
they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new
scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.
Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough
respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre
season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think
Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped
out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.

Ah Toby, if only Flannery, Varley, Horan, Hayes, Borlase or Buckley
were training with us, you might even be making some sense. The
only likely starter we have at the minute is Wian.

kahalui
9th-July-2010, 11:39
'Email a letter with up-to-date curriculum'?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


Whydo munster rugby have application guidelines on their website for a position that needs to be filled by a KNOWN expert. Surely the person who gets the job isnt going toapply via arugby website!? ... unless its some lad who was training youghal RC.

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 11:41
Typical, why not do this at

the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at

the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact)

and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a

guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season

training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season.

An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should

have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the

embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going

to be an afterthough.







As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat

would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin

time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that

they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new

scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.

Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough

respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre

season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think

Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped

out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.



Ah Toby, if only Flannery, Varley, Horan, Hayes, Borlase or Buckley

were training with us, you might even be making some sense. The

only likely starter we have at the minute is Wian.
Yep leave Dave Ryan, Fogarty, Hurley, WDP stew away scratching their arses, thats the attitude smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif!
Where's Horan???

ruckinhell
9th-July-2010, 11:43
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.






True, the scrum has been allowed to grow feeble and was an aspect of our game where teams could really attack us. That said an appointment of a dedicated fulltimescrum coach is to be applauded (better late then never), and I can't help but feel that this is just another excuse for you to gripe about management. Why don't you wait to see who is appointed and what comes of it before griping and moaning like an old crone?

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 11:48
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.






True, the scrum has been allowed to grow feeble and was an aspect of our game where teams could really attack us. That said an appointment of a dedicated fulltimescrum coach is to be applauded (better late then never), and I can't help but feel that this is just another excuse for you to gripe about management. Why don't you wait to see who is appointed and what comes of it before griping and moaning like an old crone?



Pathetic attitude, applauding on appointing a scrum coach 2 years too late. Then after getting raped in the scrums this year we don't bother to appoint a scrum coach guy at the start of the season , in fact we don't even know who's going to be the scrum coach smileys/lol.gif, Mike Cron maybe smileys/cool.gif!!! we are a joke at the moment. The Munster brains don't have an iota about the front row, there more obsessed with filling Thomond park out and expanding the brand.

Point
9th-July-2010, 11:49
Typical, why not do this at
the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at
the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact)
and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a
guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season
training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season.
An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should
have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the
embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going
to be an afterthough.







As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat
would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin
time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that
they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new
scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough
respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre
season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think
Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped
out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.

Ah Toby, if only Flannery, Varley, Horan, Hayes, Borlase or Buckley
were training with us, you might even be making some sense. The
only likely starter we have at the minute is Wian.


It's not where you start, Joey. It's where you finish. smileys/wink.gif

McCloud
9th-July-2010, 11:50
In fairness pre-season training has more to do with physical conditioning etc., then with the 'technical' aspects of the scrum.

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 11:54
In fairness pre-season training has more to do with physical conditioning etc., then with the 'technical' aspects of the scrum.
After the fiasco last year scrum sessions should have been incorporated into the schedule straight away.

kahalui
9th-July-2010, 11:55
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.






True, the scrum has been allowed to grow feeble and was an aspect of our game where teams could really attack us. That said an appointment of a dedicated fulltimescrum coach is to be applauded (better late then never), and I can't help but feel that this is just another excuse for you to gripe about management. Why don't you wait to see who is appointed and what comes of it before griping and moaning like an old crone?








The scrum should never have been allowed to grow feeble in a team like munster. Serious shortsightedness on the mangements behalf.


I dont think anybody should applaudanything until our scrum starts to improve. We dont even know who the scrum coach is going to be ffs. We shouldget someone in from SA/arg/france.. but i cant see it happening.By the looks of the application process, we'll be hiring some local lad.

ruckinhell
9th-July-2010, 12:02
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.






True, the scrum has been allowed to grow feeble and was an aspect of our game where teams could really attack us. That said an appointment of a dedicated fulltimescrum coach is to be applauded (better late then never), and I can't help but feel that this is just another excuse for you to gripe about management. Why don't you wait to see who is appointed and what comes of it before griping and moaning like an old crone?






Pathetic attitude, applauding on appointing a scrum coach 2 years too late. Then after getting raped in the scrums this year we don't bother to appoint a scrum coach guy at the start of the season smileys/lol.gif, in fact we don't even know who's going to be the scrum coach, Mike Cron maybe smileys/lol.gif!!! we are a joke at the moment. The Munster boys don't give a monkeys about scrummaging.






If only the Munstermanagement hadthe rigorous and unyielding moral supremacy of you, oh Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passion. The valid points you raise about the managements approach to the scrum are clouded out by the constant sound of your broken record moaning.





Do we have issues in the pack? Certainly.





Has the management adequately resolved these? Not at the moment.





Is this a step in the right direction? Yes





Will it matter a jot to the Squeeling and indignantpinnacles of Righteousnesssuch as Toby? Not at all.

JoeyFantastic
9th-July-2010, 12:06
Lads, our scrum has been crap for a long time, probably since the very
beginning of the HEC run. It's not a new problem, at least the branch
are putting structures in place now.

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 12:09
Typical, why not do this at the end of the season! Munster are being rugby a bunch of clowns at the moment, this appointment will be far too late ( 2 years in fact) and we're going to be miles behind the French teams. By the time a guy gets appointed the lads will probably be 6 weeks into pre-season training and scrummaging should have been our priority this season. An absolute joke of an management setup, the 6 or so weeks should have been spent scrummaging the s**t out of each other after the embarrassment of last season, great to know the scrum is still going to be an afterthough.






As the Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passionwhat would you recommend they do instead, perhaps go back3 yearsin time with their Delorean and assassinate Tony McGahan? Better that they acknowlege the failings now then carry on as usual, if a new scrum coach is appointed they can hopefully stop the rot.



Just failing to see that they are giving the scrum enough respect, a new scrum coach possibly 6 or so weeks into the pre season is a f**king joke! But hey most of the muppets on here think Munster management can do no wrong, the reason we got dumped out of the HEC was the scrum and it's complete lack of attention.






True, the scrum has been allowed to grow feeble and was an aspect of our game where teams could really attack us. That said an appointment of a dedicated fulltimescrum coach is to be applauded (better late then never), and I can't help but feel that this is just another excuse for you to gripe about management. Why don't you wait to see who is appointed and what comes of it before griping and moaning like an old crone?






Pathetic attitude, applauding on appointing a scrum coach 2 years too late. Then after getting raped in the scrums this year we don't bother to appoint a scrum coach guy at the start of the season smileys/lol.gif, in fact we don't even know who's going to be the scrum coach, Mike Cron maybe smileys/lol.gif!!! we are a joke at the moment. The Munster boys don't give a monkeys about scrummaging.






If only the Munstermanagement hadthe rigorous and unyielding moral supremacy of you, oh Spiritual Guardian of the Munster Pride and Passion. The valid points you raise about the managements approach to the scrum are clouded out by the constant sound of your broken record moaning.





Do we have issues in the pack? Certainly.





Has the management adequately resolved these? Not at the moment.





Is this a step in the right direction? Yes





Will it matter a jot to the Squeeling and indignantpinnacles of Righteousness</span>such as Toby? Not at all.
It's just called common sense, something your clearly lacking. Your also watching too much Pulp Fiction.

tired old cynic
9th-July-2010, 12:13
we don't want to be recruiting, we should have bundled Noriega into a
suitcase before we left Australia. He is a proven scrum coach and if
anyone can make a silk purse out of a sow's hear it is him. No
disrespect to anyone who fancies the job, but Noriega's performance
speaks for itself.

ruckinhell
9th-July-2010, 12:19
It's just called common sense, something your clearly lacking. Your also watching too much Pulp Fiction.






If that's your view of common sense I'd hate to see you lose the plot. If sheer boneheadedness was the vital ingredient to scrummaging you'd solve all our woes.

fullback15
9th-July-2010, 12:35
Id say we already have the guy.





Agreed- closing date is 14th July- doesnt give much time for applicants- they must have him lined up. Wonder is it McCarthy

No. 16
9th-July-2010, 12:43
Was McCarthy still working for DK and Gert this summer on the Ireland
Scrum? He was during the 6N right?


Bump

Forgive my ignorance. I know he was working with them with Reggie in the 6N, but I'm just curious - Was he involved with them during the summer matches?

bugler
9th-July-2010, 13:06
Lads, our scrum has been crap for a long time, probably since the very

beginning of the HEC run.

No, it hasn't. It was rock solid in the HEC Finals of 2006 and 2008 against opposition we were told would eat us, and many times prior to it and in between. We had some wobbles against one of the best scrums the HEC has seen (Leicester 2007), and some occasionally forgettable days out against more mediocre opposition, but we were never as bad as we became in 08/09 and 09/10.

Our scrum went from being principally secure on our own ball to being a bad joke, liable to hand over possession anytime we packed down. The scrum against Ospreys in the QF in 08/09 was an absolute horror show, no one remembers it because we hammered them. It all culminated in probably our most embarrassing experiences against Saints and Biarritz in 09/10, the former in which we conceded 7 penalties or so.

Since May 2008 there has been one game in which our scrum came up with the goods in a big match.

Enough of the revisionism.

munsterforever
9th-July-2010, 13:11
sure if youre playing scrumby ye gotta have a scrum but i cant see how coaching can improve the players we have though...if they dont know now they never will

Tobyglen
9th-July-2010, 14:44
Lads, our scrum has been crap for a long time, probably since the very

beginning of the HEC run.

No, it hasn't. It was rock solid in the HEC Finals of 2006 and 2008 against opposition we were told would eat us, and many times prior to it and in between. We had some wobbles against one of the best scrums the HEC has seen (Leicester 2007), and some occasionally forgettable days out against more mediocre opposition, but we were never as bad as we became in 08/09 and 09/10.

Our scrum went from being principally secure on our own ball to being a bad joke, liable to hand over possession anytime we packed down. The scrum against Ospreys in the QF in 08/09 was an absolute horror show, no one remembers it because we hammered them. It all culminated in probably our most embarrassing experiences against Saints and Biarritz in 09/10, the former in which we conceded 7 penalties or so.

Since May 2008 there has been one game in which our scrum came up with the goods in a big match.

Enough of the revisionism.


Agree with all that, it's seems aswell that other teams have targetted the scrum as areas to improve wheras we have done the opposite. The final straw for me was getting buckled by Leinster a fourth time. There still a pack of pansies in the scrum yet they comfortably got the better of us.

davidos
9th-July-2010, 15:30
MickGalway favourite for the post

Clubman
9th-July-2010, 16:28
MickGalway favourite for the post

Claw.

Munstermac
9th-July-2010, 17:05
What exactly does fisher do ????????

kahalui
9th-July-2010, 18:40
What exactly does fisher do ????????

shhhh.. just get behind the team and stop asking questions!!smileys/wink.gif

JoeyFantastic
9th-July-2010, 19:55
Lads, our scrum has been crap for a long
time, probably since the very
beginning of the HEC run. No, it hasn't. It was rock solid in
the HEC Finals of 2006 and 2008 against opposition we were told
would eat us, and many times prior to it and in between. We had
some wobbles against one of the best scrums the HEC has seen
(Leicester 2007), and some occasionally forgettable days out against
more mediocre opposition, but we were never as bad as we became
in 08/09 and 09/10. Our scrum went from being principally secure on
our own ball to being a bad joke, liable to hand over possession
anytime we packed down. The scrum against Ospreys in the QF in
08/09 was an absolute horror show, no one remembers it because
we hammered them. It all culminated in probably our most
embarrassing experiences against Saints and Biarritz in 09/10, the
former in which we conceded 7 penalties or so. Since May 2008 there
has been one game in which our scrum came up with the goods in a
big match.Enough of the revisionism.


Principally secure at a time when the scrum wasn't a contest, since
the focus changed we have been in trouble, anyhow, as you avoid
pointing out, the good and great scrums are destructive, not just
secure, when did Munster last have a destructive scrum?

munster_mafia
9th-July-2010, 20:20
Paul McCarthy is still there, working on scrummaging at Cashel today.

JoeyFantastic
9th-July-2010, 20:25
Did we look destructive?

Tipoki's_Step
9th-July-2010, 20:34
Having looked at the pictures on the Munster website from training in Cashel today Paul Mc is still there working on teh scrum and will be the man appointed. He was brought in for a few weeks last season so it wasn't a permanent role, the role has to be advertised to follow due process with employment law i'd imagine and he will formally be appointed next week.. If not it will be interesting to see who they get in


Interesting also to see that Daragh Hurley was on the tight head side for a few scrums..maybe they are going to work on him and ryan and see if they can progress as a tight head!

Point
10th-July-2010, 19:36
The scrum should never have been allowed to grow feeble in a team like munster. Serious shortsightedness on the mangements behalf.


In fairness. lip service has been paid to the scrum in Munster (with a few honourable exceptions) for the last 20 years. It just got a whole lot worse with this management.

Point
10th-July-2010, 19:42
Principally secure at a time when the scrum wasn't a contest, since
the focus changed we have been in trouble, anyhow, as you avoid
pointing out, the good and great scrums are destructive, not just
secure, when did Munster last have a destructive scrum?




Who's talking about destructive ? Many of us would settle for adequate at this stage. Destructive is only the stuff of dreams at this moment.

Pony
11th-July-2010, 07:31
What exactly does fisher do ????????

Plays Santa at the kids Christmas Party and collects an over-sized cheque.

Pony
11th-July-2010, 07:36
In fairness WDP will improve the LH side no end. Horan had a horror show last season and I think many of the younger lads are ahead of him now. When WDP was at LH we hammered Perp away at Christmas, can't do that with a terrible scrum.

Buckley will be the focus for TH but I'm thinking Borlase will play more than people might expect. It will be interesting to see how McGahan balances national/provincial interests with Bull/Buckley/Borlase next season.

Will the bull even be on the bench this season for many games?

Tobyglen
11th-July-2010, 10:45
In fairness WDP will improve the LH side no end. Horan had a horror show last season and I think many of the younger lads are ahead of him now. When WDP was at LH we hammered Perp away at Christmas, can't do that with a terrible scrum. </span>

Buckley will be the focus for TH but I'm thinking Borlase will play more than people might expect. It will be interesting to see how McGahan balances national/provincial interests with Bull/Buckley/Borlase next season.

Will the bull even be on the bench this season for many games?

WDP hadn't a good game against Saints bar one great scrum, he got well beaten up by Murray, 2 months later Horan ended up doing a number on Murray. All things considered the guy had heart surgery last season so perspective would be nice.

locomotion
11th-July-2010, 17:07
While no one is doubting Marcus Horans committment and effort for Munster, his performances on the whole have been well below the standards he was capable of before his medical peoblem. Both Horan and Hayes should be used very sparingly by Munster this season, with Munster using Buckley, Du Preez, Borlaise, Ryan, Archer and Hurley (if fit) as the front line props. Hayes and Horan owe nothing to anybody having put their bodies on the line for the last decade for the cause.

Munstermac
11th-July-2010, 17:13
Agreed Loco

Tobyglen
11th-July-2010, 17:30
While no one is doubting Marcus Horans committment and effort for Munster, his performances on the whole have been well below the standards he was capable of before his medical peoblem. Both Horan and Hayes should be used very sparingly by Munster this season, with Munster using Buckley, Du Preez, Borlaise, Ryan, Archer and Hurley (if fit) as the front line props. Hayes and Horan owe nothing to anybody having put their bodies on the line for the last decade for the cause.





The reason he was well below his best should be obvious!! He had a heart problem, how in the name of god could a guy play to a decent level with such a serious problem. He was feeling unwell for quite a few games before he had to leave the pitch in the Treviso game.

locomotion
11th-July-2010, 18:10
Exactly my point toby Marcus Horan gave 100% every time he pulled on a Munster jersey and he should have been protected from himself by the management because he showed more courage and character that sense coming back like he did after his illness. No one can or should expect a player specially in the front row to perform at his best in those circumstances.

Quailman
12th-July-2010, 19:20
In fairness WDP will improve the LH side no end. Horan had a horror show last season and I think many of the younger lads are ahead of him now. When WDP was at LH we hammered Perp away at Christmas, can't do that with a terrible scrum. </span>

Buckley will be the focus for TH but I'm thinking Borlase will play more than people might expect. It will be interesting to see how McGahan balances national/provincial interests with Bull/Buckley/Borlase next season.

Will the bull even be on the bench this season for many games?

WDP hadn't a good game against Saints bar one great scrum, he got well beaten up by Murray, 2 months later Horan ended up doing a number on Murray. All things considered the guy had heart surgery last season so perspective would be nice.


And Murray destroyed Puppy in the Ireland A game. You shouldn't read too much into the Tampon performances as they were reffed very differently. Murray is a massive cheat, particularly with his bind, and if the ref lets him away with it (as they did in the group game but not the QF) he is very destructive.

jeepers
12th-July-2010, 20:30
In fairness WDP will improve the LH side no end. Horan had a horror show last season and I think many of the younger lads are ahead of him now. When WDP was at LH we hammered Perp away at Christmas, can't do that with a terrible scrum. </span>

Buckley will be the focus for TH but I'm thinking Borlase will play more than people might expect. It will be interesting to see how McGahan balances national/provincial interests with Bull/Buckley/Borlase next season.

Will the bull even be on the bench this season for many games?

WDP hadn't a good game against Saints bar one great scrum, he got well beaten up by Murray, 2 months later Horan ended up doing a number on Murray. All things considered the guy had heart surgery last season so perspective would be nice.


And Murray destroyed Puppy in the Ireland A game. You shouldn't read too much into the Tampon performances as they were reffed very differently. Murray is a massive cheat, particularly with his bind, and if the ref lets him away with it (as they did in the group game but not the QF) he is very destructive.


Lets not forget that the 'A' game was Horan's 2nd game to start in about 5 months.

B.A.
13th-July-2010, 11:18
The reason he was well below his best should be obvious!! He had a heart problem, how in the name of god could a guy play to a decent level with such a serious problem. He was feeling unwell for quite a few games before he had to leave the pitch in the Treviso game.

What is it exactly you would like to see happening this season Toby bearing in mind that you can't change the past so complaining won't help. IMHO the brains trust have finally </span>acknowledged the deficiencies in the scrum and are actively recruiting a scrum coach. Our 2 tight-heads will not be available for a lot of next season and Archer is not up to the required level so they brought in a prop who could potentially qualify for Ireland. WRT Loose-head, Horan has not been playing well. You can't rely on Hurley to stay fit and Dave Ryan is not yet at the level where he should be starting for Munster. At hooker Flannery is first choice and they have rightly promoted Varley to second choice ahead of Fogerty.

HurlerOnDeDitch
13th-July-2010, 12:09
This position is very much a step in the right direction.


It is an expansion on the current scrum coaching role to include lower levels of the game and an element of long term strategic planning.


I'm not sure how anyone can construct a negative from this.


To me it looks like somebody sat down after the end of last season andanalysed the requirements for the scrum in the province. This job description for this position seems a reasonable conclusion to have reached.


I would expect McCarthy to be appointed, assuming he applies for the positiion.

Cathal
13th-July-2010, 13:32
The only thing that worries me is the short run-in time for application - perhaps the role has been offered out to agents or whoever previous to this though.

bugler
13th-July-2010, 14:27
The only thing that worries me is the short run-in time for application - perhaps the role has been offered out to agents or whoever previous to this though.


Or more likely as has been suggested in this thread by others, it's a done deal and McCarthy has the job.

overthehillprop
13th-July-2010, 14:37
The reason he was well below his best should be obvious!! He had a heart problem, how in the name of god could a guy play to a decent level with such a serious problem. He was feeling unwell for quite a few games before he had to leave the pitch in the Treviso game.




What is it exactly you would like to see happening this season Toby bearing in mind that you can't change the past so complaining won't help. IMHO the brains trust have finally acknowledged the deficiencies in the scrum and are actively recruiting a scrum coach. Our 2 tight-heads will not be available for a lot of next season and Archer is not up to the required level so they brought in a prop who could potentially qualify for Ireland. WRT Loose-head, Horan has not been playing well. You can't rely on Hurley to stay fit and Dave Ryan is not yet at the level where he should be starting for Munster. At hooker Flannery is first choice and they have rightly promoted Varley to second choice ahead of Fogerty.






I'm not sure I'd exactly credit the brains trust with appointing a scrum coach. From what I've heard it was from a national point of view that McCarthy was brought on board at Munster - he was working with the national squad - and that the Munster coaching team didn't exactly have a lot of say in his appointment. After all it was McGahan who got rid of McCarthy when Deccie left.

paulie boy
13th-July-2010, 17:10
New props signed and now looking for a full time specialist scrum coach. Someone has woken up in Munster Rugby ..... AT LAST.


If this works out our prophets of doom may have toput their sackcloth and ashes back into storage for a while.





Hope your right. Took them forever to figure it out though which has to be worrying.


Much better late than never mind you.Does give me a bit more heart about the coming season,

Tobyglen
13th-July-2010, 22:44
The reason he was well below his best should be obvious!! He had a heart problem, how in the name of god could a guy play to a decent level with such a serious problem. He was feeling unwell for quite a few games before he had to leave the pitch in the Treviso game.




What is it exactly you would like to see happening this season Toby bearing in mind that you can't change the past so complaining won't help. IMHO the brains trust have finally </span>acknowledged the deficiencies in the scrum and are actively recruiting a scrum coach. Our 2 tight-heads will not be available for a lot of next season and Archer is not up to the required level so they brought in a prop who could potentially qualify for Ireland. WRT Loose-head, Horan has not been playing well. You can't rely on Hurley to stay fit and Dave Ryan is not yet at the level where he should be starting for Munster. At hooker Flannery is first choice and they have rightly promoted Varley to second choice ahead of Fogerty.






I'm not sure I'd exactly credit the brains trust with appointing a scrum coach. From what I've heard it was from a national point of view that McCarthy was brought on board at Munster - he was working with the national squad - and that the Munster coaching team didn't exactly have a lot of say in his appointment. After all it was McGahan who got rid of McCarthy when Deccie left.
OTHP- don't mind those guys, those red tinted glasses are blinding the faithful.
It's obvious that McGahan had no interest in the scrum yet some eeijits on here credit him with finally getting things sorted. You can be sure it was Deccie, Small that ordered a scrum coach. Just look at the difference to Buckley's play when he gets proper coaching under Small. Coincedence my arse.

rathbaner
13th-July-2010, 23:06
This position is very much a step in the right direction.


It is an expansion on the current scrum coaching role to include lower levels of the game and an element of long term strategic planning.


I'm not sure how anyone can construct a negative from this.


To me it looks like somebody sat down after the end of last season andanalysed the requirements for the scrum in the province. This job description for this position seems a reasonable conclusion to have reached.


I would expect McCarthy to be appointed, assuming he applies for the positiion.

http://www.munsterfans.com//uploads/images/rathbaner/974_logical.jpg

That is the logical conclusion. (MF - Is this comment redundant given the pic?</span>)

DONC
14th-July-2010, 09:33
The reason he was well below his best should be obvious!! He had a heart problem, how in the name of god could a guy play to a decent level with such a serious problem. He was feeling unwell for quite a few games before he had to leave the pitch in the Treviso game.




What is it exactly you would like to see happening this season Toby bearing in mind that you can't change the past so complaining won't help. IMHO the brains trust have finally acknowledged the deficiencies in the scrum and are actively recruiting a scrum coach. Our 2 tight-heads will not be available for a lot of next season and Archer is not up to the required level so they brought in a prop who could potentially qualify for Ireland. WRT Loose-head, Horan has not been playing well. You can't rely on Hurley to stay fit and Dave Ryan is not yet at the level where he should be starting for Munster. At hooker Flannery is first choice and they have rightly promoted Varley to second choice ahead of Fogerty.



Hooker is a major concern at the minute I think I hope Varley continues to improve as God knows how many games we will get out of Flan.


Flandoes seem to be getting more and more reckless on the pitch and if not checked many games on the sidelines I fear.

locomotion
14th-July-2010, 16:46
Does it really matter who decided to fix the scrum as long as it gets fixed. Personally speaking I dont care if it was McGahan , Kidney or even George Hook who made the decision, the end result is all thatcounts.

overthehillprop
14th-July-2010, 17:22
Does it really matter who decided to fix the scrum as long as it gets fixed. Personally speaking I dont care if it was McGahan , Kidney or even George Hook who made the decision, the end result is all thatcounts.

I think it does matter. If the brains trust were unable to see the problem or unwilling to seek help in fixing it then there are serious questions to be answered about why this was the case.

Its great that something has finally been done about it but if as I've heard anyway that this was something forced upon Munster by Kidney/IRFU then what hope is there that the current brains trust can learn any lessons or solve any problems?

McCloud
14th-July-2010, 19:47
Does it really matter who decided to fix the scrum as long as it gets fixed. Personally speaking I dont care if it was McGahan , Kidney or even George Hook who made the decision, the end result is all thatcounts.

I think it does matter. If the brains trust were unable to see the problem or unwilling to seek help in fixing it then there are serious questions to be answered about why this was the case.

Its great that something has finally been done about it but if as I've heard anyway that this was something forced upon Munster by Kidney/IRFU then what hope is there that the current brains trust can learn any lessons or solve any problems?



According to my sources you have heard incorrectly. It was flagged early last season that Munster needed to look at things from a different point of view than had been previously. Recruiting a scrum coach was very much in the mix , unfortunately with a lot of things in this downturn , such an option had to be put to the IRFU to give the green light (maybe this is where the notion of it being forced upon Munster came from ?) . Paul McCarthy stepped in to help out last season but as far as I am aware, he has a full time Job already and was not a full time coach with Munster last year.





Is there many people that could actually do this Job I wonder. I might apply for it.





To late Laz. The oppertunity to apply closed at end of business hours today!

Tobyglen
14th-July-2010, 20:22
Point is the bookies favourite at the moment, great value at 2/1.

Point
15th-July-2010, 06:57
Point is the bookies favourite at the moment, great value at 2/1.


You and me, Kid, we could take on the world ! smileys/wink.gif

HurlerOnDeDitch
15th-July-2010, 09:21
Point is the bookies favourite at the moment, great value at 2/1.


You and me, Kid, we could take on the world ! smileys/wink.gif





I thought ye already had!!! smileys/lol.gif

Ballyb
19th-July-2010, 12:23
At last Friday's training session in Tralee Axel had the forwards going through their stuff. I didn't see the entire day though so I can't confirm if was in charge of scrummaging. The machine was being loaded on a trailer as I arrived. As Foley has quit as the U20's coach, that would suggest further involvement with the first team.

Red October
19th-July-2010, 12:37
Well, yesterday, I spotted Axel pushing a stroller as he
wandered around Ballina. This would suggest a lucrative
sponshorship deal from Mothercare.

NeilBestisalegend
19th-July-2010, 14:38
picture 17 (http://www.munsterrugby.ie/7693.php)

Cathal
19th-July-2010, 15:54
Hurley at TH again (http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/gallery/Scrum_Training_16710_Gal.jpg).

mr chips
19th-July-2010, 16:21
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.

dannybzr
19th-July-2010, 23:05
So, do we know of the scrum coach is going to be or are we all still thinking its going to be McCarthy?

halftime
20th-July-2010, 05:25
Probably not, he is home grown which wouldn't suit the present brains
trust. From sources in Limerick he takes no s..t which wouldn't suit
Fisher either!! Fisher will make the call on this one !!

manofmunster
20th-July-2010, 05:53
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


Given his injury-profile over the last few years, I wouldn't bet on it!


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...


It's not a personal thing - by all accounts he's probably the most naturally gifted prop we have .... but we cannot afford the luxury of dead weight in the propping dept - we're already seriously under-strength there, in terms of the quality of personnel available

bugler
20th-July-2010, 06:52
Darragh seems to have a beard now, so it should all be ok from here in.

Interesting that he's packing at TH and D Ryan at LH rather than vice versa. Whether it actually means anything at all is another matter.

buck65
20th-July-2010, 07:18
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...








Jeez, have you got some say in the transfer of players? Cool.

manofmunster
20th-July-2010, 07:25
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...








Jeez, have you got some say in the transfer of players? Cool.





Perhaps I do smileys/biggrin.gif


It's a discussion forum genius ... got anything even remotely constructive orrelevant to offer the debate??smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

soccer rules
20th-July-2010, 07:56
Probably not, he is home grown which wouldn't suit the present brains
trust. From sources in Limerick he takes no s..t which wouldn't suit
Fisher either!! Fisher will make the call on this one !!


not just that, i read a post from Dave Cahill on another forum, that mc carthy is useless and munsters scrum got progressively worse while mc carthy was coach. also, he heard from a munster player that none of the players like or rate him.

halftime
20th-July-2010, 09:27
Probably not, he is
home grown which wouldn't suit the present brains trust. From
sources in Limerick he takes no s..t which wouldn't suit Fisher either!!
Fisher will make the call on this one !!


not just that, i read a post from Dave Cahill on another forum, that
mc carthy is useless and munsters scrum got progressively worse
while mc carthy was coach. also, he heard from a munster player
that none of the players like or rate him.


*

From what I hear it was the players got him back - Fact!. Difficult to
see how someone could be involved in a professional team for about
7 years with a few major titles and be useless.

ustix
20th-July-2010, 09:29
Well, yesterday, I spotted Axel pushing a stroller as he

wandered around Ballina. This would suggest a lucrative

sponshorship deal from Mothercare.
Well spotted Sir

Red October
20th-July-2010, 10:45
Well, yesterday, I spotted Axel
pushing a stroller as he
wandered around Ballina. This would suggest a lucrative
sponshorship deal from Mothercare.Well spotted
Sir

Nothing gets by me.

It also suggests that Axel will be taking time this season to
build the badly needed 2nd bridge in Killaloe-Ballina out of
spare Duplo/lego bricks left lying around the house by the
young lad.

Seems a reasonable assumption to me anyways. As
reasonable as most of what hits the various thread walls
around here anyway!

breffni
20th-July-2010, 16:00
Does anyone think that the front row seen in training would ever take the field together and if so how would they cope?

Waterfordlad
20th-July-2010, 16:48
I'm in the US - what front row is being seen in training? Thanks

anthonyk
20th-July-2010, 16:58
When is this new coach to be on place?

Cathal
20th-July-2010, 17:55
I'm in the US - what front row is being seen in training? Thanks

Been a few pics of Hurley, Fogs and Ryan (TH, 2 and LH).

Waterfordlad
20th-July-2010, 17:57
Thanks Cathal

JoeyFantastic
20th-July-2010, 22:23
Does anyone think that the front row seen in training
would ever take the field together and if so how would they cope?


Considering Buckley and Hayes will be rested for the first few weeks of
the season and Borlase won't arrive til after the NPC, our only tighthead
is Archer. We need someone to cover across.

I think we could see that front row happen late in a game, assuming du
Preez is out first choice loosehead in Horan's absence. As for how they'll
do...

buck65
21st-July-2010, 09:39
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...








Jeez, have you got some say in the transfer of players? Cool.





Perhaps I do smileys/biggrin.gif


It's a discussion forum genius ... got anything even remotely constructive orrelevant to offer the debate??smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Ah take it easy I was only jibing. I probably have offered some pearls of wisdom if not though let me synopsise it as the following.


Horan and Hayes should be retired or at the most given bench spots in the ML. I watched SA v Ireland 2004 on ESPN the other night and Hayes actually carried the ball on a few occasions and broke the gain line now if he gets the ball he falls over.


Mc Carthy if given the job should be only given a short term contract to see if the scrum improves - it did against the Saints in the quarters but Biarritz and Leinster demolished us so I have my doubts. Du Preez may shore up the scrum but this is only one component.

overthehillprop
21st-July-2010, 09:55
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part in training. Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...








Jeez, have you got some say in the transfer of players? Cool.





Perhaps I do smileys/biggrin.gif


It's a discussion forum genius ... got anything even remotely constructive orrelevant to offer the debate??smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Ah take it easy I was only jibing. I probably have offered some pearls of wisdom if not though let me synopsise it as the following.


Horan and Hayes should be retired or at the most given bench spots in the ML. I watched SA v Ireland 2004 on ESPN the other night and Hayes actually carried the ball on a few occasions and broke the gain line now if he gets the ball he falls over.


Mc Carthy if given the job should be only given a short term contract to see if the scrum improves - it did against the Saints in the quarters but Biarritz and Leinster demolished us so I have my doubts. Du Preez may shore up the scrum but this is only one component.











Some very strange theories being posted.


McCarthy isn't a good scrum coach - yet its only really since he's left that the scrum has become a liability most of the time. During his time with Munster we never truely dominated but at the same time it was rare enough were killed on a regular basis either.


Horan and Hayes are only good enough for subs bench for the ML. If you even believe this to be case why the questions around McCarthy - surelyhe can only polish a turd so much.

buck65
21st-July-2010, 10:03
No, just stop investing gametime into two loyal servants that can't cut the mustard any longer at international or HCup level.


Get the likes of Ryan, Archrer, Hurley in there from the start. Use the early rounds of the ML to give these guys first team experience in the view of having a settled front row and options for LI in October.

manofmunster
21st-July-2010, 10:09
Horan has plenty more to offer Munster. People have very short memories - the guy only recovered from a serious health scare mid way through the season - he spent the rest of the year trying to get back up to pace

buck65
21st-July-2010, 10:55
Horan has too much mileage on the clock and a health condition that may be psychologically damaging. He really hasn't been in good form for a few seasons now. I can understand your wanting to defend him but to say there is alot more to come from him is surely wide of the mark. The signing of du Preez leads me to think that Marcus will be a bench option only for the big days.


I know some will point to his health scare as an excuse for the past couple of seasons but I don't buy that as Marcus said it was only recently he started feeling off.

Cathal
21st-July-2010, 11:00
Did he not have a top-notch 08/09 season?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

halftime
21st-July-2010, 11:08
Delighted to see Darragh Hurley taking full part
in training.* Hope his injury troubles are behind him.


I'm sick and tired of hearing how good this guy is - been hearing it
for about four or five years now .... and every time he gets himself
into a position where he has an opportunity to demonstrate his
capabilities he picks up another injury .....


Last chance saloon for me this season - he either stays injury free
and finally nails down a first team/squad slot or we ship him on ...



*





Jeez, have you got some say in the transfer of players? Cool.





Perhaps I do smileys/biggrin.gif


It's a discussion forum genius ... got anything even remotely
constructive or*relevant to offer the debate??
*smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Ah take it easy I was only jibing. I probably have offered some
pearls of wisdom if not though let me synopsise it as the
following.


Horan and Hayes should be retired or at the most given bench
spots in the ML. I watched SA v Ireland 2004 on ESPN the other night
and Hayes actually carried the ball on a few occasions and broke the
gain line now if he gets the ball he falls over.*


Mc Carthy if given the job should be only given a short term
contract to see if the scrum improves - it did against the Saints in the
quarters but Biarritz and Leinster demolished us so I have my
doubts. Du Preez may shore up the scrum but this is only one
component.


*





*


Some very strange theories being posted.


McCarthy isn't a good scrum coach - yet its only really since he's
left that the scrum has become a liability most of the time. During his
time with Munster we never truely dominated but at the same time it
was rare enough were killed on a regular basis either.


Horan and Hayes are only good enough for subs bench for the ML.
If you even believe this to be case why the questions around
McCarthy - surely*he can only polish a turd so much.

Some interesting points, maybe your not so overthehill and should be
back playing.

I would like to add a few.

Both HC victories had some good scrum moments, stringer"s try, and
the turnover on the Toulouse scrum close to their line which lead to
Leamy's try ?? ( Beer Goggles on) . We never really got busted until
Fisher took over. But, then our maul and Lineout has suffered as
well. I also read in a post that J Williams used McCarthy in the Tri
Nations last year. Maybe a full time role would suit and give it the
focus it needs. What about the Claw or Galway ??

Tobyglen
21st-July-2010, 11:22
Horan should not be written off, he has a serious underlying health problem all last season and the year before he was good, with a good pre-season I think he has another 1/2 years left in the tank, Hayes unfortunately is finished.

manofmunster
21st-July-2010, 11:56
Did he not have a top-notch 08/09 season?smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


Indeed he did. Discipline was an occasional problem for him but he had a phenomenal six nations,especiallyin the scrumwhere he made a fool of castro

Munsterboy
21st-July-2010, 14:43
Have to say I'm surprised at how many have written off Marcus. As many have said, he was playing well until the heart problem, which thank God seems to have been sorted out. Didn't do too badly against Northampton in the HEC for us either. Far from finished imo and I'm hoping to see a rejuvenated Pup fighting for his place this coming season.


That said, delighted to see that we are taking steps to widen our options on both sides of the scrum and find a good coach. Long overdue but better late than never I suppose.

Foot Soldier
21st-July-2010, 14:58
and I'm hoping to see a rejuvenated Pup fighting for his place this coming season. Would love to see that

barryfitz8
21st-July-2010, 17:36
The Pup had to practically start his pre-season all over again after the surgery as he couldn't do any physical work for weeks so it's not surprising that he may have been off the pace when he came back. Don't write him off. I'm sure he has a lot to prove to a lot of people. Peoples memories are so short.

Point
21st-July-2010, 18:24
The Pup had to practically start his pre-season all over again after the surgery as he couldn't do any physical work for weeks so it's not surprising that he may have been off the pace when he came back. Don't write him off. I'm sure he has a lot to prove to a lot of people. Peoples memories are so short.


And the same goes for the Bull. We'll see in November where they are both at.

Danny
21st-July-2010, 19:35
Sorry Haven't been following this but has the current scrum coach 'Mac'
lost his job or what??

MunsterLux
23rd-May-2011, 05:21
So as we saw on Saturday, a pack can go from being dominated
to dominating in the space of 10 mins with the right technical
advice from the scrum coach.


"We just had to say to the boys, ‘look let’s just get our
s**t right and try not to do too much’. It was just a few technical
things that I gave them to do but the technical stuff only works if
you get the other stuff right too. These guys have got some
massive heart as well. It was probably the biggest 10 minutes of
my rugby career at half-time.

"Belief played a big part in it as well. We were all very down after
that first 40 minutes.

"We backed ourselves and that has been the key with us and our
systems all year. It was a matter of getting back to that. I
actually think we were trying too much."

Feek’s instructions were clear and simple, his methods equally
so. There was no outpouring of emotion like Sexton’s, just a
laptop with set-piece replays and a forensic deconstruction of
what they were doing wrong.

So do we have a totally crap scrum coach or are our players
lacking "the other stuff" and "massive hearts"?

Admittedly the scrum has gotten a bit better in the last few
games but nothing to get too excited about. Come Saturday I
fear it won't be enough to compete with Leinster. I really hope
I'm wrong…

Viigand
23rd-May-2011, 06:24
I think we do need a new scrum coach, when you look at what Feek has done with Leinster it shows exactly the value of having a good scrum coach.

Mebawsa Ritchie
23rd-May-2011, 06:26
I think we do need a new scrum coach, when you look at what Feek has done with Leinster it shows exactly the value of having a good scrum coach.

I thought in the 2 ML fixtures this season we did reasonably ok in the scrums against D4.

bugler
23rd-May-2011, 06:48
I think we do need a new scrum coach, when you look at what Feek has done with Leinster it shows exactly the value of having a good scrum coach.

I thought in the 2 ML fixtures this season we did reasonably ok in the scrums against D4.


We did, and have improved. If Botha can stay fit I expect our scrum will be fine next year, unless it comes up against one of the monster scrums in europe.

Also, people have short memories. The turn around in the Munster scrum vs Saints in the QF compared to the pool game in 09/10 was every bit as remarkable as that in the HC final that just passed. You may need good coaching, but you need the raw materials too, I'm not sure we have had them the past few seasons.

Wedger
23rd-May-2011, 08:20
Yeah lets all applaud TMCG and Coaching Staff. We are looking for a Scrum Coach after 3 failed years with Fisher, oh but sorry sur thats not TMCG fault, oh and silly me sorry i forgot sur we are in transition, yeah Munsters transition is 3 full years in now and heading for 4 years but Schmidt's transition lasts 4 games, great work lads, well done.


The same "Heeve" Brigaders will be back at the end of next season afterfurther failure telling us all how well TMCG is doing and sur we are top of ML and sur we will be back competing for HC next season.


No one signed of any quality, miles behind Leinster and they have already a further 5 players signed for next season, yeah well done TMCG, oh sur sorry none of the current situation is any fault of yours.

bugler
23rd-May-2011, 08:22
This is an old thread. We have had a dedicated scrum coach for some time now.

In fact, this thread seems to have been started off the back of a rubber stamping exercise by Munster plc, who had already decided on the successful candidate.

JoeyFantastic
23rd-May-2011, 08:48
You may need good coaching, but you need
the raw materials too, I'm not sure we have had them the
past few seasons.

Think that's spot on. We made the wrong call several years
back trying to turn guys like Buckley, Tim Ryan and Dave
Ryan into props rather than trawling the AIL for props we
could turn into pro's, imo. Whatever about Buckley moving
on, dropping Dave Ryan is fairly much an admission this
policy was a disaster. It's certainly up there as one of the
biggest f**k ups the Branch/Academy made in the last 5 or 6
years.

Point
23rd-May-2011, 16:07
You may need good coaching, but you need
the raw materials too, I'm not sure we have had them the
past few seasons.

Think that's spot on. We made the wrong call several years back trying to turn guys like Buckley, Tim Ryan and Dave Ryan into props rather than trawling the AIL for props we could turn into pro's, imo. Whatever about Buckley moving
on, dropping Dave Ryan is fairly much an admission this policy was a disaster. It's certainly up there as one of the biggest f**k ups the Branch/Academy made in the last 5 or 6 years.


Dave Ryan was always a prop, Joey, Timmy was a No 8 up to U18. But yes I agree 100% that it has been a f**k up, but not just the last 5/6 years, it has hovered around Munster (i.e. clubs included) since the start of the AIL from what I can remember. The scrum has, with a few honourable exceptions,been a secondary function. Looking at what Leinster are doing in employing Cracker to oversee scrummaging in the province as a whole, compared to what looks like a basic effort so far in Munster, my confidence isn't too high.

JoeyFantastic
23rd-May-2011, 16:12
You may need good coaching, but you
need the raw materials too, I'm not sure we have had them
the past few seasons. Think that's spot on. We
made the wrong call several years back trying to turn guys
like Buckley, Tim Ryan and Dave Ryan into props rather
than trawling the AIL for props we could turn into pro's,
imo. Whatever about Buckley moving on, dropping Dave
Ryan is fairly much an admission this policy was a disaster.
It's certainly up there as one of the biggest f**k ups the
Branch/Academy made in the last 5 or 6 years.



Dave Ryan was always a prop, Joey, Timmy was a No 8
up to U18. But yes I agree 100% that it has been a f**k
up, but not just the last 5/6 years, it has hovered around
Munster (i.e. clubs included) since the start of the AIL from
what I can remember. The scrum has, with a few
honourable exceptions,*been a secondary function. Looking
at what Leinster are doing in employing Cracker to oversee
scrummaging in the province as a whole, compared to what
looks like a basic effort so far in Munster, my confidence
isn't too high.

I'm even more depressed for Dave Ryan if he was always
a prop.

Seemingly Cotter is getting bumped up from the Academy
btw.

Munster10
23rd-May-2011, 16:16
I have a feeling its not the scrum as a unit thats the problem but the players.

Buckley, Horan and Hayes all get to work with Feek for Ireland and there has been no improvement. I'd like to see how we do with a decent tighthead signing and WDP at loosehead

Mule
23rd-May-2011, 16:20
I have a feeling its not the scrum as a
unit thats the problem but the players.Buckley, Horan and
Hayes all get to work with Feek for Ireland and there has been
no improvement. I'd like to see how we do with a decent
tighthead signing and WDP at loosehead


We've signed a decent tighthead. Peter Borlase.

Point
23rd-May-2011, 16:38
You may need good coaching, but you
need the raw materials too, I'm not sure we have had them
the past few seasons. Think that's spot on. We
made the wrong call several years back trying to turn guys
like Buckley, Tim Ryan and Dave Ryan into props rather
than trawling the AIL for props we could turn into pro's,
imo. Whatever about Buckley moving on, dropping Dave
Ryan is fairly much an admission this policy was a disaster.
It's certainly up there as one of the biggest f**k ups the
Branch/Academy made in the last 5 or 6 years.




Dave Ryan was always a prop, Joey, Timmy was a No 8
up to U18. But yes I agree 100% that it has been a f**k
up, but not just the last 5/6 years, it has hovered around
Munster (i.e. clubs included) since the start of the AIL from
what I can remember. The scrum has, with a few
honourable exceptions,been a secondary function. Looking
at what Leinster are doing in employing Cracker to oversee
scrummaging in the province as a whole, compared to what
looks like a basic effort so far in Munster, my confidence
isn't too high.




I'm even more depressed for Dave Ryan if he was always a prop.

Seemingly Cotter is getting bumped up from the Academy btw.


Interesting to see that alongside Christy Condon getting a training contract. It looks like they are looking at props rather than converters. John Ryan is getting some class of a contract as well - it will be interesting to see whether he goes to Dolphin as a LH or Con as a TH. If I were him, I'd go to Dolphin and play in his best position (LH).

The Kerryman
23rd-May-2011, 20:29
Apologies for my ignorance..but who is the Cotter from the
Academy you refer to?

JoeyFantastic
23rd-May-2011, 20:34
Apologies for my ignorance..but
who is the Cotter from the
Academy you refer to?

Alan Cotter, joined the Academy at the start of the season in
his mid 20's. Been the cornerstone of Munsters dominant pack
all season. Not sure if he'll ever be good enough to step up
but at least he's a prop.

The Kerryman
23rd-May-2011, 20:42
Thanks Joey,


There is a Cotter front row player who played with Dolphin and is now with Clon, he has Kerry roots so thought it may be him.


Good player but more useful as a hooker. Thanks

hugochavez
23rd-May-2011, 21:27
We've signed a decent tighthead. Peter Borlase.


smileys/shock.gifplease tell me this is irony NoSweat.


i'll play instead of him and look interested

isola ciarrai
24th-May-2011, 17:34
We've signed a
decent tighthead. Peter Borlase.


smileys/shock.gif*please tell me this is irony NoSweat.


i'll play instead of him and look interested

Story of the season in micocosm - our special project is
Borlase, theirs is Strauss. Only worry for Ireland/Leinster
now, with Strauss' incredible form is that Saffies will want him
back home for their test side. But never mind, they also have
Sean Cronin coming there. Jesus wept.

BourkeofDublin
24th-May-2011, 17:40
Scrum has steadily been improving all season compared to
where it was against the Ospreys during the year. It might be
a slow process, but it definitely has become more solid.
The test will be against Leinster, they have a scrum that is as
good as any in European rugby.

isola ciarrai
24th-May-2011, 17:43
Scrum has steadily been improving
all season compared to
where it was against the Ospreys during the year. It might be
a slow process, but it definitely has become more solid.
The test will be against Leinster, they have a scrum that is as
good as any in European rugby.
+1. smileys/wink.gif

Munsterboy
24th-May-2011, 18:00
We've signed a
decent tighthead. Peter Borlase.


smileys/shock.gif*please tell me this is irony NoSweat.


i'll play instead of him and look interested

Story of the season in micocosm - our special project is
Borlase, theirs is Strauss. Only worry for Ireland/Leinster
now, with Strauss' incredible form is that Saffies will want
him
back home for their test side. But never mind, they also
have
Sean Cronin coming there. Jesus wept.

Ah but remember lads, poor Pete needed a 6 month rest
after a tough season of NPC rugby and couldn't be
expected to scrummage adequately in the ML. He was
probably still suffering from jet lag for at least his first
three months here too.

He'll morph into Carl Hayman after a decent pre-season,
apparently. smileys/lol.gif

bugler
25th-May-2011, 06:07
The test will be against Leinster, they have a scrum that is as

good as any in European rugby.

The test is a lot more extensive than that. We've been doing ok against Leinster in the scrum. Our scrum has let us down on big days when it really mattered, in the HC. We'll have to wait until next season to find out if we have it sorted.