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View Full Version : Any number 7’s coming through?



JoeyFantastic
5th-January-2007, 03:02
Rewatching Glory, Glory, Munster it's almost easy to forget of just
how long we've had the services of Wallace to call on, he broke
through at a pretty young age, making his debut in the 1998/1999
season, though (iirc) he didn't really cement his place until the end of
2000 (calendar year, not season), and lost virtually a season after
the Lions tour? he'll be 31 next season, will probably play in almost
every test match this season, and the RWC, it's fair to say we can't
be sure just how much longer he'll be able to take top level rugby,
especially considering his injuries over the years. So, it's only natural
to begin to wonder, and maybe worry, about where his replacement
is going to come from.

Considering we are forced to play Leamy at 7 this weekend, and that
we had to sign an Australian as cover for when the Internationals are
away, (though I think we did play JOS there earlier in the season
too). Leamy made his breakthrough at 7, before moving to 6, before
returning to his schools position of 8 so we know he's a versatile
player, but with EOS picking him at 8 for Ireland, it seems unlikely
his long term future lies anywhere else. why are there no out and out
number 7's coming through the ranks, or am I just completely
ignorant of a whole host of academy 7's waiting for the call?

Iirc, Shannon's Johnny O'Connor was expected to come through, and
got some caps there last year, but he's since gone to Coventry
(getting good reviews there though) and there seems to be no home-
grown heir-apparant. We seem to have become adept at turning out
very good 6's and 8's, so much so that Keogh can leave the Munster
bench and become one of Leinster's top players over the course of a
few months. Of course we'd rather Keogh had remained with
Munster, but it has been excellant to see his emergence from sub to
possible 6n's candidate, something he wouldn't be had he been kept
on the Munster fringes.

I know mcGann has looked pretty good in his games so far, and at
25, there's plenty of rugby left in him, but having been capped at 7's
he's not an option for the Irish team. If anything, his signing
highlights the problems we are having at finding a homegrown
player. Bizarrely, with Jennings now returning to Leinster, should
Munster make a play for Lansdowne's Niall Ronan, who has looked
pretty good in his limited chances so far? Sure the thoughts of a
Leinster forward with Munster are enough to make anyone nauseous
but this are strange days, our best prospects at prop are from Cork,
one of our best prospects at centre plays with Thomond, the old
order must be crumbling!

The problem isn't just confined to Munster, Connacht recently
extended the contract of Ray Ofisa until 2009, which, although it
would allow him qualify for Ireland under residency, also betrays the
lack of 7's working through the system at the minute.

We've been lucky to have Wallace, and we probably won't realise
just how lucky until we've to look for a long term replacement. At
least at 6 and 8, while we are replacing worldclass players, we are
replacing them with players who have huge potential (even better if
Keogh returns), can we be as confident about 7?

Balla Boy
5th-January-2007, 07:15
I'm guessing that the signing of McGann means there probably isn't.


Does him having 7's caps rule him out?

The Word Is Born
5th-January-2007, 07:21
<DIV>Yes. </DIV>
<DIV>Bruffian mentioned Anthony Kavanagh from Garryowen, I think. Not sure if he's a blind or an openside though.</DIV>

Ruck
5th-January-2007, 08:18
<DIV>Way to keep a thread on topic.smileys/rolleyes.gif</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'm not 100% but I think Kavanagh is actually a 6.</DIV>

Spoof
5th-January-2007, 08:33
He can play 8 and 7, 8 is his prefereed but he is a savage 7. unreal pace. Just coming back from injury i think

Angus Axe
5th-January-2007, 09:05
Munster and Ireland have always had a strong tradition of good openside players. I think producing a replacement for The Bull is a far bigger worry.

The Crimson King
5th-January-2007, 09:19
Yes, but we talk about that problem ad nauseum, whereas the issue of a replacement for Wally doesn't seem to come up that often. I suspect the trouble we're having even keeping this on topic is a symptom of how few viable options there are so far. http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


Anybody know more about Kavanagh?

Exiled in D4
5th-January-2007, 09:20
I believe that Barry O'Mahoney of UCC is supposed to be a very good prospect. Represented Munster and Ireland schools/U19 whilein school inCrescent and has put in some impressive performances for College this year. He is the most likely home born 7 to come throught the system at the moment. He turned 20 in Spetember, so is still very young for a forward. It will probably be another year or so before he gets his opportunity.


His brother was on the Muster schools U18 team this year playing full back and is supposed to be a very good player also.

Ruck
5th-January-2007, 09:24
Is O'Mahoney part of the academy?

Point
5th-January-2007, 09:26
Yes, but we talk about that problem ad nauseum, whereas the issue of a replacement for Wally doesn't seem to come up that often. I suspect the trouble we're having even keeping this on topic is a symptom of how few viable options there are so far. http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif


Anybody know more about Kavanagh?





He played a couple of CL games last season IIRC. Played well enough.

Exiled in D4
5th-January-2007, 09:27
Yeah, his profile is on the deadsite, or what passes for a profle, i.e. his name, date of birth, place of birth and position. So informative as always.

Boxcari
5th-January-2007, 10:11
Thought Kavanagh looked pretty good last year. Better than O'Connor anyway.


The Buccs openside is a handy player. Conor Hartigan is his name andplayed for theIreland club team last year. Not sure how old he is though.

Corker
5th-January-2007, 10:14
Convert James Coughlan from 8 or Donnacha Ryan from 4 or 8 ?

sewa
5th-January-2007, 10:20
We can get by with two 6's. The difference between 6 and 7 is somewhat over exxagerated.

lahinch_lass
5th-January-2007, 10:25
isn't ross Noonan supposed to be the next golden boy from the academy ?


And i seem to remember he plays back-row. Any cork con fans out there to confirm where in the back row he usually plays ?


As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway. The munster tradition seems to be for Flankers capable of playing either side. If you watch the munster games the 6&amp;7's regularly switch sides during the course of matches... particularly when it was Wally &amp; Quinny, or Leamy.

Boxcari
5th-January-2007, 10:26
We can get by with two 6's. The difference between 6 and 7 is somewhat over exxagerated.














I'd agree with that. Given the choice of playing 2 good 6's or 1 good 6 and 1 average 7, I'd pick the 2 good 6's every time.

bruffian
5th-January-2007, 10:41
He can play 8 and 7, 8 is his prefereed but he is a savage 7. unreal pace. Just coming back from injury i think


indeed he(kavanagh) has great speed.ive played against him a couple of times where he was played centre,scary proposition!.hes still only 21 aswell.hes adept anywhere in the backrow

5th-January-2007, 12:05
I've heard Hartigan, Kavanagh and O'Mahony mentioned in other threads/conversations/etc as decent prospects so I would guess the fact they are known prospects means the cupboard isn't all that bare.


I'd also say we need to include that Quinlan has played 7 and JOS is quite capable of playing there. Right now we have 4 of the current top 5 back rows capable of playing 7, another out and out 7 behind them plus the 3 youngsters mentioned, that's not bad going at all.


From an Ireland perspective you've got Wallace, Gleeson, JOC, Leamy, Easterby, Quinlan, Jennings, Ferris all capable of doing the job to some degree.

The Crimson King
5th-January-2007, 12:42
As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway.





Spot on - and a surprising number of people still say that. But sure we'll happily continue to ignore them smileys/lol.gif

Ruck
5th-January-2007, 12:45
As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway.





Spot on - and a surprising number of people still say that. But sure we'll happily continue to ignore them smileys/lol.gif
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>That mainly came from the Leinster camp. Although I don't think they can still say that after the amount of turnover he got against them in December.smileys/lol.gif</DIV>

5th-January-2007, 14:28
Certain people have said that about everyone wearing a 7 shirt who isn't named Keith Gleeson so it's not a well thought out rugby based analysis we're talking about here.

Jenta
5th-January-2007, 14:33
As previously mentioned, Barry O'Mahony is a great prospect. If the Hartigan also mentioned is Ryan who plays for bohs, he's not really a 7, but is still a great player.

JoeyFantastic
5th-January-2007, 14:34
Certain people have said that about everyone
wearing a 7 shirt who isn't named Keith Gleeson so it's not a well
thought out rugby based analysis we're talking about here.

It was hilarious on the morning of the semi the Sunday Times did a
profile of Gleeson, and then compared his stats to Wallace's, Wallace
had much better stats, especially in the traditional 7 role.

who?
5th-January-2007, 14:35
<div>That mainly came from the Leinster camp. Although I don't think they can still say that after the amount of turnover he got against them in December.smileys/lol.gif</div>

I've said it about him in the past.

I remember an Ireland game a few years back (I think it was in LR against Scotland for the first of our recent Triple Crowns) with Wallace at 7; and Scotland were going through phase after phase after phase of possession and we couldn't get the ball off them. They were going nowhere, back and forth across the pitch, but in spite of our defence we just couldn't turn them over at the breakdown. I'm pretty sure I gave him a fair roasting on the boards after that one.. smileys/biggrin.gif

5th-January-2007, 15:12
Who the Scots are very good at retaining possession so I wouldn't blame the 7 for that, they're just s**te at penetration. 2 autumns back they should have beaten NZ. As Joey points out when you actually look at the stats he's doing the job but people just see what they want to see.

dobbs
5th-January-2007, 16:08
Who the Scots are very good at retaining possession so I wouldn't blame the 7 for that, they're just s**te at penetration. 2 autumns back they should have beaten NZ.





Lets not get carried away now. While the Jocks looked like they had turned a corner, they had been beaten out the gate by half time in that match, (22-3 at ht).


The kiwi's had wrapped up their Grand Slam at that stage, and never got out of first gear in the second period.

7th-January-2007, 19:16
Stats can prove anything, but are rarely proving the truth. That match included an appallingly inept refereeing performance. NZ had (IIRC) 2 tries allowed that shouldn't have been and I think Scotland had a good try disallowed. The on that sticks the most was where a NZ player failed to catch the ball, continued to juggle it as he ran forwards (therefore proving the ball went forwards) and knocked the ball into the hands of a team mate (who then scored) without having ever recovered control. It was a blatant knock on. That set the tone really. NZ didn't deserve to be ahead and I seem to remember at half time working out that without the biased performance from the officials Scotland would have been within a point or so if not ahead.

Old Dog
7th-January-2007, 19:39
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desperate dan
12th-January-2007, 19:11
smileys/rolleyes.gifsmileys/rolleyes.gifWhats up with the doooooooooogsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif

Fly_caster
12th-January-2007, 21:00
WTF ?smileys/smile.gif

yokie
14th-January-2007, 15:31
i get it.any 7's coming trough. nice one olddog

Hugged Rugger
14th-January-2007, 17:46
smileys/lol.gif

dedon
14th-January-2007, 17:48
Kevin Dinan Mallow is one to watch

Had a bad knee but is coming back to his best

pure groundhog and pretty old school aswell