Racial abuse claim at Ravenhill

[blackwarrior]

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<DIV =line>Irish to lodge racist abuse claim </DIV>


BBC Sport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_uni&#111;n/my_club/l&#111;nd&#111;n_irish/6185015.stm)


London Irish are to lodge a formal complaint about racial abuse in Friday's Heineken Cup match against Ulster, the BBC understands.


London Irish director of rugby Brian Smith told BBC Radio Berkshire that full-back Delon Armitage was racially abused by an Ulster player.


"One or two things have happened at the end of each of the games that we will be formally taking forward," he said.


Smith said Irish would lodge a formal complaint with authorities on Monday.
<DIV =bo>


"We'll do whatever we need to on Monday in terms of putting those issues in writing," he said.


"There's no room for some of the nonsense that one of our players had had to put up with for two weeks in a row."


__________________________________________________ _____


I've often wondered why serious assault in not just rugby, but also soccer and other sports, is dealt with by a sending off, or a match ban or two, but "racial abuse" is seen as so much more serious?



I don't know what happened in Belfast this evening, but in general, shouldn't things that happen in the heat of the moment on the field of play be treated just as that?


</DIV>

[McCloud]

Please do not post any names or suggestions of who might be involved in this until LI put their complaint into writing.

[The Word Is Born]

If things happened at the end of the first game then he's sh*t of of luck. No point bring them up now. The issue with tonight is a different matter.

[aarons]

Please do not post any names or suggestions of who might be involved in this until LI put their complaint into writing.

i was surprised that the bbc published the LI comments without a reply from ulster. would seem to be the polite and legally-astute thing to have done.

[McCloud]

So am I however the bbc does not concern me.

[aarons]

So am I however the bbc does not concern me.

except of course that the bbc article is quoted in full above

[McCloud]

Well the bbc published it'sso its nowpublic domain.

[aarons]

i'm not sure that's how libel laws work, y'know

anyway, was only commenting, don't think you've really got much to worry about

[McCloud]

My though is that if LI had an issue they should have lodged a complaint but said nothing to the press.

[The Word Is Born]

My though is that if LI had an issue they should have lodged a complaint but said nothing to the press.

You would have thought that if Brian Smith was concerned for his players' welfare then he would have lodged a complaint as well last week.

[Harry]

I wonder who it was, if true smileys/rolleyes.gif

[Jenta]

There is nothing at all libelous about the BBC article.


The important thing with an incident like this is that no one make presumptions, it's a very serious allegation.

[dropkick]

Probably blown out of all poportion as usual. I'd say there was a comment about a Black playing for London "Irish". PC gone mad again.

[Old Dog]

The important thing with an incident like this is that no one make
presumptions, it's a very serious allegation.





Probably blown out of all poportion as usual. I'd say there was a comment about a Black playing for London "Irish". PC gone mad again.



Wonderful! Simply wonderful. smileys/lol.gif

[Rooster]

The crowd were calling them plastic paddys, wonder does that countsmileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[The Word Is Born]

Tha's petrochemicalist!

[danthefan]

There's a discussion about this on lf.com including an incident that COULD have been where it came from, if you're interested it's on the away games board. Not sure what to make of it myself, just letting the curious know it's there.

McCloud if this is even too much to post then feel free to delete, and I apologise.

[Mcork]

Since the disgusting &amp; unfounded claims of racism made against a
prop forward in Munster by a certain horrible welsh club &amp; idiotic
manager a couple of years back, it's probably better not to assume
anything until the evidence is presented.

[Old Dog]

In the interests of Oz's liver - I've edited this message.

[ozoyo]

I could not give a damn about that. I am sick of all this politcal correctness where, if you are @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">suspected@@@@/SPAN> to have racially injured someone it is worse than being caught stepping volontarily on someone's head @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">in front of the camera@@@@/SPAN>.

I am so sick of being force fed with that slime that instead of killing an innocent goose for foie gras I think I am going to serve my own liver for christmas.

I think you would all render a huge service to humankind if you all ignored and not debate this.

[Old Dog]

Regardless of the veracity of the rascism allegation, it seems that I'm not the only one who finds the Todgers an objectionable mob:-



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<DIV></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E IIMA -><!- S SF ->London Irish are to lodge a formal complaint over alleged racial abuse in Friday's Heineken Cup match against Ulster, the BBC understands.


However, Ulster chief executive Michael Reid said that he was "comfortable that the allegation is unfounded".


London Irish director of rugby Brian Smith claimed Delon Armitage was racially abused by an Ulster player.


"One or two things have happened at the end of each of the games that we will be formally taking forward," he said. <!- E SF ->


Smith told BBC Radio Berkshire that Irish would lodge a formal complaint with authorities on Monday.


"We'll do whatever we need to on Monday in terms of putting those issues in writing," he said.


"There's no room for some of the nonsense that one of our players had had to put up with for two weeks in a row."


In response, Ulster chief executive Mike Reid said that his side had "an unblemished record in relation to racial issues".


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"We would take this issue most seriously if the allegation is formally made but from my initial discussions with players, I am comfortable that the allegation is unfounded," said Reid.


Smith said that he had already verbally lodged the complaint to ERC chief Derek McGrath, who attended Friday's game.


The London Irish coach added that there was "no love lost" between the sides after the two recent games.


"It starts from number one to 22 and carries on through the management."


Smith also claimed that London Irish playmaker Mike Catt was "taken out by Neil Best" in the first minute of the game and the England international had to go off injured at half-time.


"As a result, he (Catt) carried a should injury throughout the first half. Neil Best got a penalty and we might be without Catty for up to a month.


"It should have been dealt with by the match officials.


"It was just one illustration of what's been a very interesting two weeks playing against this mob."


</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>

[JoeyFantastic]

Remember folks, any allegation made will follow the player around whether it's truthful or not, even if he is cleared by the ERC. Please be circumspect when posting.

[Mcork]

I am so sick of being force fed with that slime
that instead of killing an innocent goose for foie gras I think I am
going to serve my @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">own liver for christmas@@@@/SPAN>.







Ye Lyonnais will eat just about anything! smileys/lol.gif Out of curosity what wine will you be serving with that?

[Old Dog]

This is the nearest to human liver that I can find! smileys/badgrin.gif






<TABLE borderColor=#007070 cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=4 width="95%" align=center bgColor=#ffffff border=2>
<T>
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<TD>Pate de Foie de Porc
Pate of Pork Liver </TD>
<TD>Well oaked Australian Chardonnay, Pinot Gris, Cotes du Rhone Red</TD></TR></T></TABLE>

[Paddy Whac]

Since the disgusting &amp; unfounded claims of racism made against a prop forward in Munster by a certain horrible welsh club &amp; idiotic manager a couple of years back, it's probably better not to assume anything until the evidence is presented.


Well I know how I felt at the time, I can only imagine how the player felt, yet it could have gone either way - I agree with Mcork, lets wait and see what happens. There is a danger in open forums to be a bit free with comments I only hope nothing will be said here that might endanger it's future.

[mullet is gone]

Havent seen the match.Did Best take out Catt or was it a fair tackle?

[Mcork]

He'd better go with the Cote du Rhone or otherwise there'd be trouble :
I could imagine the headline in Le Parisian : Man eats own liver while
enjoying Australian wine : French Wine growers group express
outrage.

[Old Dog]

Havent seen the match.Did Best take out Catt or was it a fair tackle?





No - Catt had kicked to touch from his own line and was exposed andBest* went in bothhigh and late with the sole aim of hurting him.


(*I thought that it was McCullough)

[mikerob]

After Cardiff played LI in the EDF last month, Smith also said he would
be making an official complaint about racist abuse - although apparently
this was from the crowd rather than the players.

I haven't heard if Smith actually did this and certainly haven't seen any
come back from a complaint about this game. While comments on
gwlad should be taken with a pinch of salt, they seemed to think there
was nothing in it and Smith was trying to cover for petulance by Delon
Armitage when he abused one of the officials.

[Jackie Brown]

McCullough hit him late, not Besty. Shows how much attention Smith was paying, about the same amount as his team! smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif


The only 'incident' i saw, and i was there, was both Trimble and Armitage got binned right at the death, Armitage for Punching Trimble in the face and Trimble for saying 'something' (as the ref put it). I'm sure i wouldn't be the only one who would be pretty shocked if this was the incident in question. Trimble lives for his religion and his missionary work in Africa.


Smacks of sour grapes. The plastic paddies (hope that wasn't a racist slur) couldn't handle Ravenhill, simple as that.

[Valencia]

Who can handle Ravenhill and a stadium full of demented Todgers. No Gracias

[Terracetoff]

We can't condone racism if there was such behaviour. However LI were
pretty niggly - Bishop tried to referee the match by continually
haranguing touch judges and referee and there was a fair bit of niggle
on both sides. The hit on Catt wasn't that late and I don't recall him
getting attention on it in the immediate aftermath. The reality is that LI
crumbled in the second half when Ulster finally woke up - they couldn't
take the pressure.

The refereeing was bizarre and poor - in the first half LI were
continually offside in defence but the ref started picking this up in the
second half for some reason - was it pointed out to him at half time?

[Old Dog]

Who can handle Ravenhill and a stadium full of demented Todgers. No Gracias








Leinster can smileys/cool.gif

[shtove]

I am so sick of being force fed with that slime that instead of killing an innocent goose for foie gras I think I am going to serve my @@@@SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">own liver for christmas@@@@/SPAN>.




Ye Lyonnais will eat just about anything! smileys/lol.gif Out of curosity what wine will you be serving with that?





Anice chianti, along with some fava beans. And fresh brains for the sequel.

[blackadder]

After the last two weeks, i can honestly say LI have gone from being my favourite GP side to my least favourite side, i'm sure the feeling is mutual but the sooner they drop the Irish bit from their name the better as far as i'm concerned. There are pictures which show Armitage with his fingers in one of Trimble's eyes, interesting this man Smith hasn't commented on that.


This may sound controversial and i want to make clear i in no way condone any form of racial abuse whatsoever,but what is worse, making an offensive comment to someone or trying to stick your fingers in someones eye?

[The Bandwagon]

Who can handle Ravenhill and a stadium full of demented Todgers. No Gracias








Leinster can smileys/cool.gif

Would be the the Leinster's spectacular 6-6 thrashing of the Todgers you're referring to there? smileys/wink.gif
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[danthefan]

Who can handle Ravenhill and a stadium full of demented Todgers. No Gracias








Leinster can smileys/cool.gif

Would be the the Leinster's spectacular 6-6 thrashing of the Todgers you're referring to there? smileys/wink.gif
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Munster lost 27-3 the last time they played in Ravers, so you can't really comment smileys/smile.gif

[Mcork]

After the last two weeks, i can honestly say LI have gone from being my favourite GP side to my least favourite side, i'm sure the feeling is mutual but the sooner they drop the Irish bit from their name the better as far as i'm concerned. There are pictures which show Armitage with his fingers in one of Trimble's eyes, interesting this man Smith hasn't commented on that.


This may sound controversial and i want to make clear i in no way condone any form of racial abuse whatsoever,but what is worse, making an offensive comment to someone or trying to stick your fingers in someones eye?





What disturbs me the most is there seems to be a pattern here. When a non white player is caught on video or accused of doing something nasty, there is an automatic claim that he was racially abused or provoked. Twice Munster have been victim of this when treams have used this tactic to try and get their own player off the hook after a misdemeaner. It's as simple as that IMO, cry racism &amp; the citing commision will go easier on you. It's nothing personal against Ulster player just a tactic to be used.

[Rooster]

Who can handle Ravenhill and a stadium full of demented Todgers. No Gracias








Leinster can smileys/cool.gif
Dog we were not demented at that game, Smiths comments after the game in Reading and the London Irish managements treatment of travelling fans by providing mythical transport got us all stirred up, not a pretty sight smileys/lol.gif

[Skyhawk]

After the last two weeks, i can honestly say LI have gone from being my favourite GP side to my least favourite side, i'm sure the feeling is mutual but the sooner they drop the Irish bit from their name the better as far as i'm concerned. There are pictures which show Armitage with his fingers in one of Trimble's eyes, interesting this man Smith hasn't commented on that.


This may sound controversial and i want to make clear i in no way condone any form of racial abuse whatsoever,but what is worse, making an offensive comment to someone or trying to stick your fingers in someones eye?





I thought their gaffers interview after the match was also pretty sour....in relation to Humpreys intelligent and brilliant try, he questioned "the spirit of the game" although hethen admittedhe would have done the same smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[Rooster]

I thought their gaffers interview after the match was also pretty sour....in relation to Humpreys intelligent and brilliant try, he questioned "the spirit of the game" although hethen admittedhe would have done the same smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif



Should have heard him last week Skyhawk, he said " Neil Best was no match for Catt and as well Best was ugly"smileys/lol.gif
What really annoyed Best was him not being up to standard at the rugby smileys/lol.gif

Munster lost 27-3 the last time they played in Ravers, so you can't really comment smileys/smile.gif




No issue with the result. Check the team we fielded however. We had to play several AIL club players.



It's pretty difficult to get a result up there, other than a bad one.



That was also the game where Bambi got badly injured.

[Jackie Brown]

Havent seen the match.Did Best take out Catt or was it a fair tackle?





No - Catt had kicked to touch from his own line and was exposed andBest* went in bothhigh and late with the sole aim of hurting him.


(*I thought that it was McCullough)

Watch it again (http://www.uafc.co.uk/video/mattlate.wmv), tho try to take your Ulster hating specs off first.

Doesn't seem overly late, nothing wrong with setting the tone for the game and showing their kicker he's gonna have people breathing down his neck all evening.

I've seen much worse Jackie. Frequently.

[mullet is gone]

After the last two weeks, i can honestly say LI have gone from being my favourite GP side to my least favourite side, i'm sure the feeling is mutual but the sooner they drop the Irish bit from their name the better as far as i'm concerned. There are pictures which show Armitage with his fingers in one of Trimble's eyes, interesting this man Smith hasn't commented on that.


This may sound controversial and i want to make clear i in no way condone any form of racial abuse whatsoever,but what is worse, making an offensive comment to someone or trying to stick your fingers in someones eye?





Post it up.

[mullet is gone]

Havent seen the match.Did Best take out Catt or was it a fair tackle?





No - Catt had kicked to touch from his own line and was exposed andBest* went in bothhigh and late with the sole aim of hurting him.


(*I thought that it was McCullough)




Watch it again (http://www.uafc.co.uk/video/mattlate.wmv), tho try to take your Ulster hating specs off first.

Doesn't seem overly late, nothing wrong with setting the tone for the game and showing their kicker he's gonna have people breathing down his neck all evening.



Looks fairly innocuous but it is definitely late and obviously deliberate. There is something wrong with it in that its against the rules. Catt looks more surprised then injured though.

[danthefan]

Munster lost 27-3 the last time they played in Ravers, so you can't really comment smileys/smile.gif




No issue with the result. Check the team we fielded however. We had to play several AIL club players.



It's pretty difficult to get a result up there, other than a bad one.


That was also the game where Bambi got badly injured.



Oh fock I'd forgotten about that, slo-mo replay of it was horrible.

It's interesting to hear the incident some people think it was cos another name appeared on a report I saw yesterday about it. Maybe it's another case of pointing out someone has big hair being rascist. This all seems to be becoming more common in GP.

[Jackie Brown]

Munster lost 27-3 the last time they played in Ravers, so you can't really comment smileys/smile.gif




No issue with the result. Check the team we fielded however. We had to play several AIL club players.



It's pretty difficult to get a result up there, other than a bad one.


That was also the game where Bambi got badly injured.



Oh fock I'd forgotten about that, slo-mo replay of it was horrible.


That was nasty, standing about 10yds from him when it happened and a collective wince went up from the whole Terrace. Not nice at all. When will he be playing again anyway. Was a bit of a dud game that, but it was nones fault but EOS's, plus we beat you in Musgrave that year anyway when there were no international call ups. A great game it could have been at Ravers too. smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[munsterforever]

just seen the clip-McCullough wasnt really late but deliberately shouldered catt-but com on willya! there was hardly anything in it-its rugby ffs

[Old Dog]

just seen the clip-McCullough wasnt really late but deliberately shouldered catt-but com on willya! there was hardly anything in it-its rugby ffs





It's symptomatic of the dirty way that he plays the game.

[Jackie Brown]

Has anyone been cited yet or are you just make false allegations?

[Old Dog]

Yes

[Jackie Brown]

Where?

[Old Dog]

Please see edit to my original post - I had jumped the gun.


It remains to be seen whether LI will carry through with their threat to cite him.

[mullet is gone]

Edited by Joey.

[JoeyFantastic]

Ok lads, I've had to clean up a few posts, you know why you can't post inferences or allegations, so please don't post them.

[Jackie Brown]

It seems the time to cite has come and gone. Load of hot air? Was it a case of BS used it as a threat so the UB wouldn't cite Armitage for his assault on Trimble? It wouldn't be a new ploy, he did the same when Armitage verbally abused a linesman against Cardiff a few weeks ago.

[mullet is gone]

Old dog,


can you direct me to where you found out the name of the person who was implicated in this instance, assuming of coursetheres a reputable source you can cite without leaving this website open to legal difficulties.

[daveirl]

It seems the time to cite has come and gone. Load of hot air? Was it a case of BS used it as a threat so the UB wouldn't cite Armitage for his assault on Trimble? It wouldn't be a new ploy, he did the same when Armitage verbally abused a linesman against Cardiff a few weeks ago.
Jackie I don't think the UB can or can't cite anymore. I thought the whole thing went to an independent commissioner these days to stop exactly that kind of tit for tat stuff.

[Jackie Brown]

In any case the commisioner has 50hrs from the start of the match to cite any one.

[mullet is gone]

Surely you cant have an independent comissioner deal with something that by its very nature will not be picked up by the cameras (unless the mystery player drewan offensive cartoon on his jersey or something)

[Jackie Brown]

How is it proven or disproven then?

[Daithi]

reading papers it sounds like HC citing procs are different to internationals tests, in that Brian Smyth was saying that they were going to cite provided they deemed it in their (player's) best interests. So that implies that clubs can cite an alleged incident (or group) of them to an independent citing commissioner.


Assumedly for things not picked up by video, the commissioner takes into account written testimony, witnessed or backed up by other players, the refs report &amp; probably reports from the other officials (e.g. were LI complaining about same during game, etc) this then would give a comm enough material to base a judgement on.


If there was racist abuse then I hope they cite it &amp; prove it just to keep the standards up &amp; keep that sort of thuggish behaviour off rugby pitches going forward. We've all seen it in other sports before and its ugly in the extreme.

[mullet is gone]

How is it proven or disproven then?


Its not in most cases. Clearly the accounts provided by witnesses should be considered.

[Munsterboy]

Sour grapes. Smith seems to have a problem with the entire Ulster squad and management, which seems a little strange to me cos they're not a particularly dirty or cynicalteam.


As for Armitage, only a reallynasty feckercould manage toget in a fight with a lad as good natured as Trimble.


I think the whole racial abuserule is a bit of a joke. Racism is an awful thing but let's face it, why is racial abuse worse than any other abuse? It's all offensive. In the years I've lived over here I've been called all sorts of things on a rugby pitch, many of them relating to me being Irish. I don't take the anti-Irish stuff any more to heart than the stuff about my mother, mylack of paceormy inability to pass off my left hand.

[Old Dog]

Old dog,


can you direct me to where you found out the name of the person who was implicated in this instance, assuming of coursetheres a reputable source you can cite without leaving this website open to legal difficulties.








Not at work today so haven't any access to a scanner.


Will scan and post up the newspaper report tomorrow.

[mullet is gone]

Old dog,


can you direct me to where you found out the name of the person who was implicated in this instance, assuming of coursetheres a reputable source you can cite without leaving this website open to legal difficulties.








Not at work today so haven't any access to a scanner.


Will scan and post up the newspaper report tomorrow.














Ah no need to go to that much trouble. It seems a dead issue now anyway.

Ok lads, I've had to clean up a few posts, you know why you can't post inferences or allegations, so please don't post them.


Joey it's interesting that a player was named on text service on BBC (IIRC) yesterday yet that cannot be commented on here? I thought Smith himself had said who he believed it was - which is why I'm surprised Trimble's name is on here.

[JoeyFantastic]

Has the citing actually gone ahead Omer? If it hasn't, why bother spreading groundless rumours, if it has, why not wait until it reports before tarring the player?

It's not tarring the player though. I understand what you're saying but he's been named publicly by the accusers and most on here are making it clear they're deeply suspicious of the motivation behind the accusation.

[JoeyFantastic]

Well if most people don't believe the allegation, it doesn't matter who it was made against then, does it? Would we be better off either starting a thread on spurious citings, or waiting until the issue is fully resolved?

Fair enough I can't now find the mention I saw of the player's name on BBC sites so suspect they've dropped it as well. According to Smith he verbally reported to head of ERC but nothing appears to have happened since either. Considering Smith's abusive attitude towards Ulster (says their behavour starts with 1 and goes to 22) I don't know that anyone will take him seriously.

[Old Dog]

Considering Smith's abusive attitude towards Ulster (says their behavour starts with 1 and goes to 22) I don't know that anyone will take him seriously.





I will. smileys/cool.gif

[Jackie Brown]

Considering Smith's abusive attitude towards Ulster (says their behavour starts with 1 and goes to 22) I don't know that anyone will take him seriously.





I will. smileys/cool.gif

We all know you will smileys/razz.gif

[LLCOOLJ14]

Exiles pursue racial-abuse case.
<DIV =LeadPara>London Irish will today pursue a case against an Ulster player for alleged racial abuse arising out of back-to-back Heineken European Cup matches between the two clubs over the past fortnight. </DIV>
<DIV =LeadPara>The Exiles player in question is right wing Delon Armitage, whom London Irish claim was twice racially abused, first at the Madejski Stadium and then last Friday night at Ravenhill, by the same Ulster player. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>The first incident is said to have taken place on the pitch during the match in London, the second, at Ravenhill, off the pitch. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>There is a suggestion Sky Sports may play an important role in the proceedings as the first contretemps may have been caught on tape. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>London Irish last night issued the following brief statement: "London Irish is still collating information/evidence about the racial abuse incidents that took place around its last two Heineken Cup fixtures . . . the club will make a statement tomorrow (Tuesday)." </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>The Exiles are set to take the case to the ERC and ask them to investigate the matter. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Meanwhile, Magners Celtic League rugby is set to attract bumper attendances over the festive period. Leinster clash with Ulster at Lansdowne Road on New Year's Eve, a match billed as "The Last Stand" to mark the final game to be played at world rugby's oldest Test venue. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Yesterday morning ticket sales for the fixture had exceeded 35,000, eclipsing the current league regular-season record of 27,252, in a match also involving Leinster, and guaranteed to become the largest crowd at any Celtic League game, including the play-off finals from the first two seasons. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>The Ospreys have sold out the Liberty Stadium for their game against the Llanelli Scarlets on St Stephen's Day, a crowd in excess of 20,000 expected. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>The current rude health of the Celtic cousins in Europe - Munster, Llanelli Scarlets and Leinster head their respective pools - certainly has not harmed their drawing power. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>David Jordan, director of Celtic rugby said, "Overall . . . gates are increasing significantly for the third year running since the league adopted the regular home-and-away format." </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Connacht are confident their home clash with Munster on New Year's Eve will be a sell-out. All corporate packages are sold, while the allocation for the enclosed stand is also taken. Over 1,000 tickets have been sold for the rest of the ground. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Tickets are available from Ticketmaster and Zhivago shops. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>They can also be purchased at the Connacht Branch headquarters at the Sportsground up to 12.30 on Thursday - the office will close for Christmas. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>The office will be open from 10am to 4pm on December 28th, and the following day but the match could be sold out by then. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Ulster and Leinster meet at A level in Stevenson Park, Dungannon, tonigh,t with several front-line and a host of promising young players on view. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Ulster include experienced players like Andrew Maxwell, Scott Young, Kieran Campbell and Paul Shields and will be led by Neil McMillan, a try scorer against London Irish the last day. </DIV>
<DIV =TailParas>Leinster have opted for a mixed team that includes Rob Kearney, Gary Brown, Kieran Lewis, Guy Easterby and Cameron Jowitt alongside such relative tyros as Stephen Grissing, Ro

Hmm interesting, keeping it hanging over people. If they believe there is a case they should make a complaint, pure and simple. This waiting for evidence to be collated stuff is rubbish. It's a serious issue, raise it now with ERC. The lack of collated evidence hasn't stopped them running to the press with it so why should it stop them going to ERC with it?

[Munsterboy]

The so called "evidence" will no doubt be testimony from other LI players. This will waste a few people's time, give some poor player a few sleepless nights and then fizzle out.


I haven't been to a LI game in some time and I have now got absolutely no intention of ever going to see another one. Bunch of vindictive bad losers.

[mullet is gone]

if sky do have mystery man on tape it changes everything.

[Jackie Brown]

Indeed it would, however surely it would have been spotted before now! You'd think.

[mullet is gone]

Not necessarily. If it was asituation where Irish asked sky to go back through all their cameras' footage then it might not have until now. Lip reading works sometimes butisnt the most reliable thing to go on and youd imagine thats what they have.

[blackadder]

Mullet, going back to your request for me to post the picture of Armitage gouging Trimble.


Well it seems i jumped the gun, or rather someone else did, i've now actually seen the picture (before i was going on hearsay) and isn't really conclusive at all. http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4380&amp;start= (http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4380&amp;start=0) 0


Certainly Armitage lands one on Trimble's face, however the marks on Trimble's face when the referee is giving him a yellow card suggest that Armitage must have a pretty large fist.

By the look of what the video clip on page 3 there Armitage has juststepped in and attacked him - also looks like someone has had a go at Best's eye as well judging by after shots.


Armitage was standing at the back of the ruck and steps across to punch him. Trimble is lying in a group of bodies so how could the touch judge have heard what he said? Or even know it was him?

[mullet is gone]

Mullet, going back to your request for me to post the picture of Armitage gouging Trimble.


Well it seems i jumped the gun, or rather someone else did, i've now actually seen the picture (before i was going on hearsay) and isn't really conclusive at all. http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4380&amp;start= 0 (http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4380&amp;start=0)


Certainly Armitage lands one on Trimble's face, however the marks on Trimble's face when the referee is giving him a yellow card suggest that Armitage must have a pretty large fist.





Good of you to follow up. Im off to tellLeyton Orient fans' children that their is no santa.......

[AndyB]

It's gone 3 o'clock and LI haven't made an official complaint or public statement.

The more I see of this the more the words smoke screen come to mind. The Ravenhill incident is said to have happened after the match. In which case it in no way excuses Armitagegoing to the ruckto punch a player who was caught up. They've got him bang to rights for that one and he should have received a subsequent ban - what the f**k was the touch judge watching that he didn't recommend a straight red? the clip makes it clear he steps across the ruck. In fact anything that may or may not have been said could as easily be said to have been provoked by Armitage's assault on Trimble.

[Point]

There was a report on the RTE Radio sports news that a Formal apology has been offered by an unnamed Ulster player but that LI are still pressing for a disciplinary hearing.


Doesn't sound too good.

[Old Dog]

There was a report on the RTE Radio sports news that a Formal apology has been offered by an unnamed Ulster player but that LI are still pressing for a disciplinary hearing.


Doesn't sound too good.





@@@@SPAN =post> http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4375&amp;postda (http://www.uafc.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4375&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;star t=0&amp;sid=e17c7047e934377bf4f87c39b1e8ce11) ys=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=0&amp;sid=e17c7047e934377bf 4f87c39b1e8ce11@@@@/SPAN>


@@@@SPAN =post>The Mail On Sunday have actually named him as the player the allegations have been made against.

@@@@SPAN style="COLOR: red">Claims of racial abuse aimed at London Irish full-back Delon Armitage are set to spark a high-level investigation.

Irish will today lodge an official complaint with Heineken Cup chiefs following Friday night’s 29-13 defeat at Ulster in which Armitage was allegedly targeted by @@@@SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Matt McCullough@@@@/SPAN>.

Irish spokesman Paddy Lennon said: "There is no place for racial abuse in this game. Delon was deeply upset by the racial abuse he received."

Ulster chief executive Michael Reid said: "From my initial discussions with the players, I’m comfortable that the allegation is unfounded." @@@@/SPAN>

@@@@/SPAN>

[The Word Is Born]

They are known as The White Knights.smileys/shock.gif

[The Word Is Born]

As The Justified And Ancients Of Mumu once said "It's grim up north".

[blackadder]

Yeah and at least one Ulster player was deeply upset that a London Irish player allegedly tried to poke his eye out...

[blackadder]

As The Justified And Ancients Of Mumu once said "It's grim up north".



The Word Is Born i'm sure there are no racists in beautiful Munster...

[The Word Is Born]

As The Justified And Ancients Of Mumu once said "It's grim up north".



The Word Is Born i'm sure there are no racists in beautiful Munster...

More fudging from our provincial brethern.

All's well in Lala Land.

[Old Dog]

Yeah and at least one Ulster player was deeply upset that a London Irish player allegedly tried to poke his eye out...





As the Good Book says - as you sow so shall you reap.


Stop playing dirty rugby and see what happens.

[Terracetoff]

LI statement makes no mention of racist comment. Where did it go to?
Or do LI just like making accusations? Didn't they do this against Cardiff
and same outcome? Wish I could even remember all the foul and
abusive comments made to me during the course of my rugby career!
But then I was a scrum half....

And wasn't Marcus Horan accused of racist remarks in the same sort of
way i.e. not substantiated

[Point]

And wasn't Marcus Horan accused of racist remarks in the same sort of
way i.e. not substantiated


Ah the scattergun defence ! Or should that be the scut-ter gun defence ?


Marcus was completely exonerated to the extent that the committee were happy to conclude that the "alleged remarks were not, in fact, made".

[Old Dog]

<H1>Exiles lodge 'racial abuse' complaint</H1>



Tuesday, December 19, 2006


London Irish have invited Heineken Cup organisers to investigate two alleged incidents of racial abuse during the recent back-to-back Heineken cup games against Ulster in the last fortnight.


London Irish player Delon Armitage claims to have been abused by an opposition player during the first game at the Madejski stadium and again, by the same player, after the second match at Ravenhill in Belfast


The accused player has not yet been identified, however, since the incident, London Irish have received a formal apology from an Ulster player for what the club describe as "foul and abusive language".


In a statement released today, the club said: "London Irish has forwarded its version of events to ERC, the tournament organisers, and awaits their response."


There is a suggestion that the first incident may have been caught on camera by Sky Sports.

[Point]

<H1>Exiles lodge 'racial abuse' complaint</H1>



Tuesday, December 19, 2006


London Irish have invited Heineken Cup organisers to investigate two alleged incidents of racial abuse during the recent back-to-back Heineken cup games against Ulster in the last fortnight.


London Irish player Delon Armitage claims to have been abused by an opposition player during the first game at the Madejski stadium and again, by the same player, after the second match at Ravenhill in Belfast


The accused player has not yet been identified, however, since the incident, London Irish have received a formal apology from an Ulster player for what the club describe as "foul and abusive language".


In a statement released today, the club said: "London Irish has forwarded its version of events to ERC, the tournament organisers, and awaits their response."


There is a suggestion that the first incident may have been caught on camera by Sky Sports.





Who will Terracetoff try to deflect attention to now ? smileys/shock.gif

[sewa]

If it actually happenedit was about the sum total of Mc Cullough's contribution to those twogames. smileys/wink.gif

[blackadder]

<H1>Exiles lodge 'racial abuse' complaint</H1>



Tuesday, December 19, 2006


London Irish have invited Heineken Cup organisers to investigate two alleged incidents of racial abuse during the recent back-to-back Heineken cup games against Ulster in the last fortnight.


London Irish player Delon Armitage claims to have been abused by an opposition player during the first game at the Madejski stadium and again, by the same player, after the second match at Ravenhill in Belfast


The accused player has not yet been identified, however, since the incident, London Irish have received a formal apology from an Ulster player for what the club describe as "foul and abusive language".


In a statement released today, the club said: "London Irish has forwarded its version of events to ERC, the tournament organisers, and awaits their response."


There is a suggestion that the first incident may have been caught on camera by Sky Sports.





Who will Terracetoff try to deflect attention to now ? smileys/shock.gif





Point, it should be stressed that McCullough and Ulster have strenuously denied any racist abuse, yes McCullough has apologised for using foul language at Armitage but that in no way should be equated with an admission of guilt in his part. I don't want attention to be deflected over this issue as i like mostif not all other Ulster fans want the truth about what happened on Friday to come out.

[blackadder]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=629><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=3>
<DIV ="mxb">
<DIV ="sh">Ulster reject racial abuse claim </DIV></DIV></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width=416><!- S BO -><!- S IIMA ->
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=203 align=right><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD>
<DIV>
<DIV ="cap"></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E IIMA -><!- S SF ->Ulster second row Matt McCullough has flatly rejected claims that he directed racial abuse towards London Irish player Delon Armitage.


"Ulster Rugby and Matt McCullough strenuously deny the allegation," said Ulster chief executive Mike Reid.


"Matt has apologised for the use of foul language towards Armitage in the heat of the moment during the match.


"But this should in no way be misinterpreted as an admission to the use of racist language." <!- E SF ->


Reid added that they took the allegation most seriously as Ulster Rugby had an unblemished record in relation to racial issues.


London Irish said they had forwarded their version of events to the tournament organisers and were awaiting a response. </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>

[rugbynut]

Armitage was wound up tighter than a gnats chuff throughout the game. I was a photographer on the Terrace touchline at Ravenhill and spent most of the first half a few feet from Armitage. He was effing and blinding throughout the first half, waving his hands in the air, stomping his feet, callin his team mates w***ers and generally being very frustrated that he was not getting the ball. A few of us were pi$$ing ourselves at how wound up he was... a timebomb waiting to explode is how one snapper described it

[danthefan]

Armitage was wound up tighter than a gnats chuff throughout the game. I was a photographer on the Terrace touchline at Ravenhill and spent most of the first half a few feet from Armitage. He was effing and blinding throughout the first half, waving his hands in the air, stomping his feet, callin his team mates w***ers and generally being very frustrated that he was not getting the ball. A few of us were pi$$ing ourselves at how wound up he was... a timebomb waiting to explode is how one snapper described it

Bizzare.

[rugbynut]

Agree... totally bizzare

[lahinch_lass]

http://www.planet-rugby.com/Teams/France/story_55905.shtml


apparently the ulster v LI game was not alone in controversy..

[Terracetoff]

Point
My point was not to deflect blame but to point out that the allegations
are exactly that - allegations and they have been muddied even more
by the statements emanating from LI. My reference to the Marcus
Horan case was to highlight the point that Marcus was wrongly accused
but was subsequently exonerated completely. Obviously you accept the
LI version as gospel - we will have to await the outcome of the ERC
consideration in the McCullough case to see if he is also exonerated. But
don't let that bother you - guilty as alleged.

[mikerob]

I really don't know whether to believe this or not... however an LI fan on the official Ulster Rugby (http://www.ulsterrugby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3917) site claims that McCullough called Armitage a "spide" and Armitage not familiar with the term, subsequently though that he had been called a "spade"...


For those that haven't heard it, Spide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide) is pretty common Norn Iron slang and is similar to a chav in England or a scanger or a knacker in Ireland (or maybe there is some Munster specific slang...)


The LI fan is kosher as he is the Hon Sec of the LI Supporters Club.

[Point]

Point
My point was not to deflect blame but to point out that the allegations
are exactly that - allegations and they have been muddied even more
by the statements emanating from LI. My reference to the Marcus
Horan case was to highlight the point that Marcus was wrongly accused
but was subsequently exonerated completely. Obviously you accept the
LI version as gospel - we will have to await the outcome of the ERC
consideration in the McCullough case to see if he is also exonerated. But
don't let that bother you - guilty as alleged.


It is different in that Marcus said nothing, whereas McCullogh did say something and there has been an apology offered to LI.

[Point]

I really don't know whether to believe this or not... however an LI fan on the official Ulster Rugby (http://www.ulsterrugby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3917) site claims that McCullough called Armitage a "spide" and Armitage not familiar with the term, subsequently though that he had been called a "spade"...


For those that haven't heard it, Spide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide) is pretty common Norn Iron slang and is similar to a chav in England or a scanger or a knacker in Ireland (or maybe there is some Munster specific slang...)


The LI fan is kosher as he is the Hon Sec of the LI Supporters Club.





BC ?

[mullet is gone]

I really don't know whether to believe this or not... however an LI fan on the official Ulster Rugby (http://www.ulsterrugby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3917) site claims that McCullough called Armitage a "spide" and Armitage not familiar with the term, subsequently though that he had been called a "spade"...


For those that haven't heard it, Spide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide) is pretty common Norn Iron slang and is similar to a chav in England or a scanger or a knacker in Ireland (or maybe there is some Munster specific slang...)


The LI fan is kosher as he is the Hon Sec of the LI Supporters Club.





This is meant to have happened over both matches isnt it? Was it spide/spade both times?

[blackadder]

Point, McCullough apologised for FOUL AND ABUSIVE language, not for racially abusing anyone.In a way some people here seem to want these allegations to be true but i'm sure i'm wrong on that score.


I have to be honest i wouldn't have known spade was a racist term, i suppose i can work out why it would be deemed that. Anyway if what Mikerob is saying is true then it has all be an unfortunate misunderstanding and maybe nobody is really to blame.

[Point]

Point, McCullough apologised for FOUL AND ABUSIVE language, not for racially abusing anyone.In a way some people here seem to want these allegations to be true but i'm sure i'm wrong on that score.


I have to be honest i wouldn't have known spade was a racist term, i suppose i can work out why it would be deemed that. Anyway if what Mikerob is saying is true then it has all be an unfortunate misunderstanding and maybe nobody is really to blame.





Blackadder, the point I was making was that McCullogh did say something, whereas Horan said nothing, and it was wrong to bring him into this. Whether it was racial or not isMcCullogh's business. I think you'll find that you are wrong that anyone here wants these allegations to be true.

[mullet is gone]

Point, McCullough apologised for FOUL AND ABUSIVE language, not for racially abusing anyone.In a way some people here seem to want these allegations to be true but i'm sure i'm wrong on that score.


I have to be honest i wouldn't have known spade was a racist term, i suppose i can work out why it would be deemed that. Anyway if what Mikerob is saying is true then it has all be an unfortunate misunderstanding and maybe nobody is really to blame.








Talking out of your arse in spectacular fashion there Im afraid. I guess we'll never know either way, which is the unfortunate ending to most of these situations.

[sewa]

So its ok for him to verbally abuse a player in two consecutive games as long as he apoligises?


smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif

[blackadder]

FFS, read my post i said i'm sure i'm wrong on that score.


Having said that i'm not so sure about Old Dog (who doew he support anyway, is it Leinster?) and The Word Is Born.

[blackadder]

So its ok for him to verbally abuse a player in two consecutive games as long as he apoligises?


smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Bloody hell sewa, don't be so feckin precious! Players get verbally abused all the time, they are big boys they should be able to take it. Obviously if anything of a racial nature was said then that's different. I'm sure munster players don't verbally abuse the opposition...

[Munsterboy]

Point, I think it's pretty clear that Ulster Rugby and MMcC have not admitted to any racist comment being made, which is what all the fuss is about. It's wrong to suggest that just because he admits he said "something" that his case must be entirely differentto that of Marcus Horan.The manmay well be beingfalsely accused of racial abuse, just as Marcus was. The fact that he admits to saying something abusive to a black player does not mean thathe's guilty of racial abuse of should have his name dragged through the mud.


Having heard acouple ofstories about something being said that was misinterpreted/misheard, the apology for foul and abusive languagemakes sense. Seems to me that McCullough is saying "Sorry I abused you but whatever you thought/claim you heard, what Isaid to you was not a racist insult".


Having watched the antics of Armitage and some of his team mates on the pitch and from the bitter reaction of Brian Smith to losing the game, I'm not inclined to trust what they say very much. I'm definitely giving McCullough the benefit of any doubt on this one. Innocent until proven guilty.

[Munsterboy]

So its ok for him to verbally abuse a player in two consecutive games as long as he apoligises?


smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Yep, it's fine with me. He doesn't need to apologise though.


I remember hearing Fla calling Thompson a c*nt during the Ireland v England game last year (the ref's mike caught it loud and clear). Don't recall anybody making any fuss about that. I myself was thinking at the time "Good man Fla, don't let that big fecker give you any sh!t".smileys/lol.gif


Players abuse each other on the pitch all the time. Only fools react cos that's exactly what the opposition are trying to provoke. Racist abuse is a different matter but McCullough has not admitted to that.

[sewa]

So its ok for him to verbally abuse a player in two consecutive games as long as he apoligises?


smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Bloody hell sewa, don't be so feckin precious! Players get verbally abused all the time, they are big boys they should be able to take it. Obviously if anything of a racial nature was said then that's different. I'm sure munster players don't verbally abuse the opposition...


smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif

[blackadder]

So its ok for him to verbally abuse a player in two consecutive games as long as he apoligises?


smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif





Bloody hell sewa, don't be so feckin precious! Players get verbally abused all the time, they are big boys they should be able to take it. Obviously if anything of a racial nature was said then that's different. I'm sure munster players don't verbally abuse the opposition...


smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif











Sewa, if that was a wind up attempt, fair play, you got me hook line and sinker...

[mullet is gone]

FFS, read my post i said i'm sure i'm wrong on that score.


Having said that i'm not so sure about Old Dog (who doew he support anyway, is it Leinster?) and The Word Is Born.





Well to be honest when I first heard about itI was kind secretlyof hoping it was davey who had got caughtif only for the comedy value.The equivalent for us would have been ROGholding a press conference to announce he liked wearing womens clothing.

[blackadder]

Well sometimes when wee ROG gets peeed off on the pitch his face contorts in a way that suggests he is wearing a thong.

[mullet is gone]

Well those recent clearly photoshopped photos doing the rounds a few weeks ago show a keeninterest in female undergarments

Something that concerns me here. Armitage by all accounts and from what I've seen was a total and utter c**t and the fact someone has basically told him that shouldn't lead to them having to apologise. More's the point, if they're going to apologise where's his apology for walking over to punch Trimble and for behaving like a tosser? Is it only white people who have to apologise for being "badly behaved"?

[Jackie Brown]

<div ="mxb">
<div ="sh">
McCullough waits for ERC findings
</div>
</div>












<!- S BO ->
<!- S IIMA ->

<table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="203">
<t><tr><td>
<div>
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42373000/jpg/_42373017_matt_mccullough_head203.jpg
<div ="cap">Matt McCullough has denied the allegations made by London Irish</div>
</div>
</td></tr>
</t></table>




<!- E IIMA ->
<!- S SF ->
Ulster's Matt McCullough will find out on Friday whether the ERC
have grounds to proceed with a misconduct charge following a racial
abuse complaint.
</font>


ERC Disciplinary Officer Roger O'Connor accepted submissions from both the complainant London Irish, and Ulster, on Wednesday.
</font>


The Exiles said that their player Delon Armitage was a victim of a racial slur.
</font>


However, although McCullough admitted directing foul language towards the winger, he denies any racial abuse.
<!- E SF ->
</font>


London Irish's vociferous coach Brian Smith said the
alleged incidents took place during the back-to-back games in Pool 5
during December.
</font>


Ulster's Chief Executive Michael Reid vehemently denied any allegations of abuse by anyone in the Ulster squad.
</font>


It is thought that a colloquial saying well known in Ulster was possibly misinterpreted as racial abuse.
</font>


McCullough sent a letter to London Irish apologising for his use of strong language to Armitage.
</font>

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[RobbieG]

<div>
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McCullough waits for ERC findings
</div>
</div>












<!- S BO ->
<!- S IIMA ->

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<t><tr><td>
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<div>Matt McCullough has denied the allegations made by London Irish</div>
</div>
</td></tr>
</t></table>




<!- E IIMA ->
<!- S SF ->
Ulster's Matt McCullough will find out on Friday whether the ERC
have grounds to proceed with a misconduct charge following a racial
abuse complaint.
</font>


ERC Disciplinary Officer Roger O'Connor accepted submissions from both the complainant London Irish, and Ulster, on Wednesday.
</font>


The Exiles said that their player Delon Armitage was a victim of a racial slur.
</font>


However, although McCullough admitted directing foul language towards the winger, he denies any racial abuse.
<!- E SF ->
</font>


London Irish's vociferous coach Brian Smith said the
alleged incidents took place during the back-to-back games in Pool 5
during December.
</font>


Ulster's Chief Executive Michael Reid vehemently denied any allegations of abuse by anyone in the Ulster squad.
</font>


@@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">It is thought that a colloquial saying well known in Ulster was possibly misinterpreted as racial abuse.@@@@/SPAN>
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McCullough sent a letter to London Irish apologising for his use of strong language to Armitage.
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Did he call him a "Black protestant" then?

[Jackie Brown]

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//->I believe the term used was spide. Sounds like 'spade' which i think is a racist slur althought i've never heard of it. Must be an English thing.

[JoeyFantastic]

Spade, as in Ace of Spades, is a sometime American used expression
for black person.

Spade is a term I haven't heard used round London for a long time and certainly not as an abusive term but I'm sure it's in the mind of the receiver as much as anything else. I do think there's an element now in sport of looking for rascist abuse in anything that's said. Soccer is awash with claims that turn out to be unfounded and the race card played by the likes of Ian Wright. Hopefully it won't come into rugby to that degree.

[blackwarrior]

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If I walk down the street and assault somebody, say by knocking them over or punching them in the chest, I will likely be charged with assault. If I do it in a rugby match, chances are it will be called 'handbags' or something similar and I'll get away with it, because it was done in the heat of the moment, or something.


If I racially abuse somebody on the street, chances are I'll be nicked. If I do it on the field, say in the heat of the moment, it's no big deal right?

[Old Dog]

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If I racially abuse somebody on the street, chances are I'll be nicked. If I do it on the field, say in the heat of the moment, it's no big deal right?





It's much harder to prove or disprove that someone has been insulted racially on the pitch. Unless one of the officials has overheard the remark then it's very much going to be one man's word against another's.This makes it much easier for someone to make such an accusation - and much harder for it to be both substantiated or disproved. The supporters of either team will, obviously, back their man and the thing can fester between clubs and supporters for years.

[LastKnight]

......and the thing can fester between clubs and supporters for years.

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Agreed Old Dog. I was a bit surprised how entrenched the positions became on the LI site and the UAFC site. Though I have to say, there were a minority who seemed more interested in stirring than sorting it out.


In a way I suppose its natural enough - supporters have access to players in Rugby more so than other sports and hear their version rather than the other sides.


The whole incident is regretable and I can't help thinking that relations between Ulster and LI will take some time to recover. Hope I'm wrong.

[FORWARD....]

<H1 ="firsting">Spide</H1>
<DIV id=C&#111;ntent>
<H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>
<DIV id=c&#111;ntentSub></DIV>
<DIV id=jump-to-nav>Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide#column-&#111;ne), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide#searchInput)</DIV><!- start c&#111;ntent ->
<DIV ="thumb tright"></DIV>


Spide is a pejorative slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang) term, used in Northern Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland), particularly in Belfast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast) to describe a person who has a particular dress code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_code) and attitude. The term is growing in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), who have tradtionally called people of this social class Neds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_%28Scottish%29). Stereotypically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype) spides are young unemployed male adults.<SUP id=_ref-0 ="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide#_note-0)</SUP>


There are many negative perceptions associated with the term. These include allegations that they engage in anti-social (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour_order) behaviour. They are also often seen as boy racers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_racer), who loiter in car parks and public places playing music loudly from modified cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_modding) with up-rated hi-fi's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-fi). Many wear Berghaus fleeces, fake jewellery, tracksuits (usually in light colours), white trainers and baseball caps (often fake Burberry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burberry) or New York Yankees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Yankees)).<SUP id=_ref-1 ="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide#_note-1)</SUP> Like their English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) counterparts, they typically listen to Rave or Dance Music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Music). Many also support English Premiership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.A._Premier_League) soccer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer) teams and frequently bear their jersey, this also reflects on the fact that most play football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28soccer%29) or Gaelic Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_Games)

[The Word Is Born]

So when Peter Parker says his "spidey sense is tingling" we know what he really means!smileys/shock.gif

[Jackie Brown]

Peter Parker is a New Lodge resident you know! smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif

Check this out (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/no31&#111;nline/spidegenerator.htm)
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[FORWARD....]

Peter Parker is a New Lodge resident you know! smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif

Check this out (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/no31&#111;nline/spidegenerator.htm)
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Jeez, if Delon sees that Spide generator, he'll be doubly upsetsmileys/shock.gif. I'm not sure which is worse-spade or spidesmileys/lol.gif

[LastKnight]

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Well done JB - Design your own Spide!!! Whatever will they think of next on this here t'internet.


Struggled to find how to put the classic "spiders web" tattoo on the backs of the elbows but nevertheless managed to create my very own Spide. smileys/lol.gif

[Terracetoff]

Millie is a much older term used of the girls who worked in the linen
mills in Belfast. Generally derorgative the old joke was "What is the
difference between Belfast and Casablanca at 5 o'clock in the evening?
In Casablanca the Moors come out of the hills". No mills any longer so I
guess there are no more millies.

[AXELF]

I know we all hate to see this sort of abuse from the stands no matter what the sport but I was unfortunate enough to be at the London Irish game v Ulster in Reading and I have to say thatsome of the Ulster Fans were not the friendliest bunch of guys you'd meet-SomeWearing Ian Paisley masks and shouting Political slogans etc.But they did start on the Racial thing once Irish got ahead.I thought that this sort of abuse did not exist in Rugby but it looks like it's making the transistion from Football.

[blackadder]

I was there too, yes there werea couple ofpeople wearing Paisley masks but i don't see any problme with that.


Please give examples of political slogans that were shouted and also of the racist abuse you claim took place.

blackadder Paisley isn't much of a figure of fun for a lot of people though so I can see there being an issue with wearing the masks.

[pwrmoore]

If I racially abuse somebody on the street, chances are I'll be nicked. If I do it on the field, say in the heat of the moment, it's no big deal right?





I imagine that if you racially abuse someone in the street the chances are that you'll be assaulted by the object of your abuse or that you'll walk away unmolested. It is extremely rare for the police/prosecution service to become involved and to bring a case against an average individual in the street for racial abuse.


Please understand my point here. I am not condoning racism - it is reprehensible wherever it takes place.


Also note that the player accused here denies that what he said was in any way racially abusive. He should be considered innocent unless and until he is found to be guilty.

...Please understand my point here. I am not condoning racism - it is reprehensible wherever it takes place.


Also note that the player accused here denies that what he said was
in any way racially abusive. He should be considered innocent
unless and until he is found to be guilty.



Absolutely.

[pwrmoore]

blackadder Paisley isn't much of a figure of fun for a lot of people though so I can see there being an issue with wearing the masks.


In my house paisley is very much a figure of fun. If you couldn't laugh then you'd have no option butto cry.


In my opinionvirtually no-one would wear a Paisley mask except to take the piss out of him and the stereotypical percepions of the "Ulster Says No" mentality.

[mullet is gone]

I was there too, yes there werea couple ofpeople wearing Paisley masks but i don't see any problme with that.


Please give examples of political slogans that were shouted and also of the racist abuse you claim took place.





Ill start getting my Adams masks ready for Ravenhill then.

[Old Dog]

blackadder Paisley isn't much of a figure of fun for a lot of people though so I can see there being an issue with wearing the masks.





Surely not a problem playing againstLondon Irish RFC, a club with a legendary policy of being strictly non-political and non-religious. I find that hard to believe, Omer - or have you been lurrying down the quare stuff before lunch, yet again?

[pwrmoore]

I know we all hate to see this sort of abuse from the stands no matter what the sport but I was unfortunate enough to be at the London Irish game v Ulster in Reading and I have to say thatsome of the Ulster Fans were not the friendliest bunch of guys you'd meet-SomeWearing Ian Paisley masks and shouting Political slogans etc.But they did start on the Racial thing once Irish got ahead.I thought that this sort of abuse did not exist in Rugby but it looks like it's making the transistion from Football.


At big occasions you get people who are not the "usual" supporters turning up. I'm surprised and immensely disappointed that Ulster supporters appeared unfriendly and racist. I would hope that if this is true it was the blow-in element that are responsible as I have never witnessed any such behaviour being tolerated in Ravenhill.

[Old Dog]

The Todgers supporters were dreadful in Lansdowne Road last Sunday too - "Who are ye?" they kept shouting out at BOD and El Shaggo.smileys/mad.gif


They went very quiet in the second half though! smileys/biggrin.gif


That reminds me, I must put up the link to Colin H's excellent pictures of The Last Stand.

[blackadder]

I was there too, yes there werea couple ofpeople wearing Paisley masks but i don't see any problme with that.


Please give examples of political slogans that were shouted and also of the racist abuse you claim took place.





Ill start getting my Adams masks ready for Ravenhill then.





Feel free, i would just find it funnyas would the vast majority of people.

[The Word Is Born]

To quote Langer Larkin (RIP) "It's like being at a Garvaghey Road rally".

[mullet is gone]

On the subject of chants, if you hear someone shouting "easy, easy" at opposition give them a slap.

[mullet is gone]

I was there too, yes there werea couple ofpeople wearing Paisley masks but i don't see any problme with that.


Please give examples of political slogans that were shouted and also of the racist abuse you claim took place.





Ill start getting my Adams masks ready for Ravenhill then.





Feel free, i would just find it funnyas would the vast majority of people.





I see. Very well, Ill get the toilet role insert and scissors out when I go home.

[McCloud]

Mc Cullough must await outcome of racial abuse complaint investigation

13:28 Friday January 5th 2007


Ulster's Matt McCullough will have to wait until next week to hear the outcome of the ERC's investigation into a racial abuse complaint by London Irish.


The Ulster second-row has apologised for using foul language during the sides' Heineken Cup clashes but has denied that any racial slur was used.


A decision was expected today but has been delayed as the ERC disciplinary committee examines all the evidence

[RobbieG]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005

[Old Dog]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005





That's probably just the usual Munster chip on the shoulder shoite - they never play wqell against any opposition until they can find a slur - real or imaginary - to motivate themselves. It's a well known symptom of someone with a chronic inferiority complex.

[Jackie Brown]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005


Indeed, it was from behind the dug out. They were swiftly told to shut up and then removed from the ground by stewards.

I've been going to Ravenhill for many years now, it is an intimidating place for thge oppositiion but i have never heard anything sectarian or racist. It is certainly not tolerated. The people u speak of were blow in's and haven't been seen since.

Sadly the north of this island has been tarnished over the last 30/40yrs by events out of the common mans control. We just get on with life like the rest of you, its only the uneducated few who cause the trouble. Ulster Branch has done a very good job keeping sectarianisim and racisim out of rugby in Ulster. Long may it continue!

PS. were Leinster fans not spotted wearing Big Ian masks at lansdowne last week??
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[Old Dog]

PS. were Leinster fans not spotted wearing Big Ian masks at lansdowne last week??



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Yep - we had bought them for the "Love Ulster" march in Dublin last April. smileys/biggrin.gif

[Sarsfield]

blackadder Paisley isn't much of a figure of fun for a lot of people though so I can see there being an issue with wearing the masks.





Surely not a problem playing againstLondon Irish RFC, a club with a legendary policy of being strictly @@@@SPAN style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;">non-political and non-religious@@@@/SPAN>. I find that hard to believe, Omer - or have you been lurrying down the quare stuff before lunch, yet again?

See the bits I've highlighted in red? They're the exact antithesis of Paisley's worldview...

[pwrmoore]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005


there was - and it was dealt with by the genuine supporters on the prom. The perpretrator was a lout who was not a regular and has not returned...

blackadder Paisley isn't much of a figure of fun for a lot of people though so I can see there being an issue with wearing the masks.





Surely not a problem playing againstLondon Irish RFC, a club with a legendary policy of being strictly non-political and non-religious. I find that hard to believe, Omer - or have you been lurrying down the quare stuff before lunch, yet again?





Well clearly certain elements in charge at LI are very sensitive. I just think Paisley, like Adams, is one of those jokeshop gobs**tes that you like to think are a figure of fun but to some what they've got up to is far too serious to do that.


It's a personal perspective thing. (I did laugh ages ago when Adams, pre ban, was interviewed and said he was leaving a government building one time and pressed for the lifts. The doors opened and Ian Paisley went to step out, saw Adams standing there, pressed a button and made the lift go off again. Adams said he was tempted to run up and down the stairs to each floor just to see is face at the lift each time).






On the subject of chants, if you hear someone shouting "easy, easy" at opposition give them a slap.





Totally agree

[RobbieG]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005


there was - and it was dealt with by the genuine supporters on the prom. The perpretrator was a lout who was not a regular and has not returned...

There's always one.

Have no problem with home crowds being "intimidating" as long as the banter is just that, banter, and everyone goes for a pint afterwards.

[Old Dog]

"The Last Stand" - some good pictures from Colin H


http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/Leinpre/lulpre.htm


http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/Leinul/Leinuls.htm

[Harry]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005

Indeed, it was from behind the dug out. They were swiftly told to shut up and then removed from the ground by stewards.

I've been going to Ravenhill for many years now, it is an intimidating place for thge oppositiion but i have never heard anything sectarian or racist. It is certainly not tolerated. The people u speak of were blow in's and haven't been seen since.<!-
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I can confirm with Jackie on that, I was at that game with Socks. There were2 or 3 total tools and they were set upon by ULSTER fans when it happened. They were shown the door immediately. The Ulster crowd were fantastic, very welcoming and great craic. It was a once off. You get the same type of assholes at Munster games.

[Cathal]

I did laugh ages ago when Adams, pre ban, was interviewed and said he was leaving a government building one time and pressed for the lifts. The doors opened and Ian Paisley went to step out, saw Adams standing there, pressed a button and made the lift go off again. Adams said he was tempted to run up and down the stairs to each floor just to see is face at the lift each time).








smileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gifsmileys/lol.gif

[aarons]

I know we all hate to see this sort of abuse from the stands no matter what the sport but I was unfortunate enough to be at the London Irish game v Ulster in Reading and I have to say thatsome of the Ulster Fans were not the friendliest bunch of guys you'd meet-SomeWearing Ian Paisley masks and shouting Political slogans etc.But they did start on the Racial thing once Irish got ahead.I thought that this sort of abuse did not exist in Rugby but it looks like it's making the transistion from Football.


At big occasions you get people who are not the "usual" supporters turning up. I'm surprised and immensely disappointed that Ulster supporters appeared unfriendly and racist. I would hope that if this is true it was the blow-in element that are responsible as I have never witnessed any such behaviour being tolerated in Ravenhill.

there is definitely a slightly unpleasant edge to the ulster support at big games in england. to some degree i think they are soccer blow-ins. not that all soccer fans are a problem - but some of the NI soccer fans seem to bring their politics to the rugby grounds with them. which is weird, given all we hear about the ni soccer fans being the 'best fans in the world'.

maybe it's all context.

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif

[Point]

there is definitely a slightly unpleasant edge to the ulster support at big games in england. to some degree i think they are soccer blow-ins. not that all soccer fans are a problem - but some of the NI soccer fans seem to bring their politics to the rugby grounds with them. which is weird, given all we hear about the ni soccer fans being the 'best fans in the world'.

maybe it's all context.

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



Forgive me, but who is David Healy ?

[aarons]

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



Forgive me, but who is David Healy ?

not familiar with google, no?

[Point]

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



Forgive me, but who is David Healy ?




not familiar with google, no?





Does he work for them ? smileys/shock.gif

[daveirl]

At Cardiff I heard fellas deciding to stick in the Sinn Fein IRA lines into TFOA. No different really. Idiots are everywhere.

[aarons]

At Cardiff I heard fellas deciding to stick in the Sinn Fein IRA lines into TFOA. No different really. Idiots are everywhere.


agreed.

[Sea_point]

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



That Jamsie is a terrible fecker, upsetting the genteel citzens of D4.....smileys/wink.gifsmileys/lol.gif

[pwrmoore]

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



Forgive me, but who is David Healy ?




not familiar with google, no?





Does he work for them ? smileys/shock.gif





for the un-enlightened David Healy is the Northern Ireland football team's talisman stiker. He scored the goal when NI beat England in Windsor park a couple of years ago.

[Drahcir]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005





That's probably just the usual Munster chip on the shoulder shoite - they never play wqell against any opposition until they can find a slur - real or imaginary - to motivate themselves. It's a well known symptom of someone with a chronic inferiority complex.








Yeah, munster suffer from a chronicinferiority complex.I knew there was a reason why we were champions of europe.

[Old Dog]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005





That's probably just the usual Munster chip on the shoulder shoite - they never play wqell against any opposition until they can find a slur - real or imaginary - to motivate themselves. It's a well known symptom of someone with a chronic inferiority complex.








Yeah, munster suffer from a chronicinferiority complex.I knew there was a reason why we were champions of europe.











Many thanks forconfirming my impression. "Champions of Europe" in lower case says it all really! smileys/cool.gif

[Point]

Seem to remember there was some sort of allegation of taunts and abuse from the Ulster crowd at supportters and the Munster bench at Ravenhill when Munster played in 2005





That's probably just the usual Munster chip on the shoulder shoite - they never play wqell against any opposition until they can find a slur - real or imaginary - to motivate themselves. It's a well known symptom of someone with a chronic inferiority complex.








Yeah, munster suffer from a chronicinferiority complex.I knew there was a reason why we were champions of europe.





Many thanks forconfirming my impression. "Champions of Europe" in lower case says it all really! smileys/cool.gif





It's just we are understated. We're good like that. Imagine how boastful your province would be if they won the Heineken Cup. Actually I'm having trouble imagining them get past the QFs....smileys/wink.gif

[Point]

also spotted a group of 'ulster' fans chanting about david healy in scruffy murphys in d4 last week smileys/rolleyes.gif



Forgive me, but who is David Healy ?




not familiar with google, no?





Does he work for them ? smileys/shock.gif





for the un-enlightened David Healy is the Northern Ireland football team's talisman stiker. He scored the goal when NI beat England in Windsor park a couple of years ago.





Had never heard of him before this. I just did the "google" as Aarons suggested to see that he plays for Leeds, which probably explains why I hadn't heard of him smileys/wink.gif

[scotscor]

He is a fantastic player, has scored more for Norn Iron while still
fairly young than the next two highest scorers in the history of the
country added together.

He has also scored more than double the amount his teammates have
scored between them. His hatrick against spain for the norths victory
was hugely impressive, and I'm slightly amazed that a bigger club hasnt
gone in for him.

[Old Dog]

Imagine how boastful your province would be if they won the Heineken Cup. Actually I'm having trouble imagining them get past the QFs....smileys/wink.gif





My province perhaps, me never.


I'm just happy with the quality of the product on offer, for me winning baubles isan optional (albeit vaguely desirable) extra. This USA-derived obsession with winning at all costs has ruined most professional sport.


In the good old days, winning the Grand Slam or Triple Crown didn't involve any trophies - happier days, when playing the game was the thing that mattered most.

[Point]

I'm just happy with the quality of the product on offer, for me winning baubles isan optional (albeit vaguely desirable) extra. This USA-derived obsession with winning at all costs has ruined most professional sport.


In the good old days, winning the Grand Slam or Triple Crown didn't involve any trophies - happier days, when playing the game was the thing that mattered most.





When your province loses 2 finals by a total of 7 points and 3 semi finals by a total of 7 points, come back and lecture us about winning baubles as an option extra.

[banjaxed]

Matt McCullough must appear before the ERC and answer two misconduct complaints in the near future.

The Ulsterman has been accused of racist and abusive language, arising from the province's two clashes against London Irish in the Heineken Cup.

The Exiles claim that Delon Armitage was ractially abused in both games by McCullough; while the last-named has admitted foul language, he denies that he racially abused his opponent.

Furthermore, Ulster's Chief Executive Michael Reid staunchly refuted any allegations of abuse by anyone in the Ulster squad.

McCullough has already sent a letter to 'Irish' apologising for his language. No date has been set for the misconduct hearing.

[sewa]

Imagine how boastful your province would be if they won the Heineken Cup. Actually I'm having trouble imagining them get past the QFs....smileys/wink.gif





My province perhaps, me never.


I'm just happy with the quality of the product on offer, for me winning baubles isan optional (albeit vaguely desirable) extra. This USA-derived obsession with winning at all costs has ruined most professional sport.


In the good old days, winning the Grand Slam or Triple Crown didn't involve any trophies - happier days, when playing the game was the thing that mattered most.





I wonder how that opinion tallies with the opinions of the players who actually played in those games. I'd say you couldnt be further from the truth.